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syntaxtc

HELP! Menacing / Dangerous Dog

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syntaxtc   

We have owned this puppy since he was 8 weeks old, a few months ago he Muzzle Poked a child next door after sneaking into my garage and getting out into the front yard. Two weeks ago he bit a child on the face in our back yard. Obviously i thought everything would be fine hence me allowing the child to enter the back yard, where four other kids (my two daughters and my niece and nephew were throwing the ball for the dog) after about 5 minutes he charged at the boy and stopped. This did not trigger anything in my head unfortunately and it was only about 5 minutes later he did it again but knock the boy off his feet and bit him leaving two puncture marks on his face.

 

I am not condoning this behavior obviously he 100% has some issues with aggression, he has grown up around my 4 and 5 year old daughters whom he has never hurt once. He adores them and would protect them no matter what. My main concern here is if he is declared a dangerous dog he will be forced to be living out of a cage and only being allowed out when i get home from work etc. The restrictions are huge and would impact his life greatly.

 

I would much rather spend $3000 and send him to a dog training center or behaviorist and have them work on him then spend $3000 to get a 1 x 5 cement slab + cage for him to live out of.

 

We need help, we need to be pointed in the right direction for a good dog trainer who is willing to work with our puppy. We met the ranger today and he is most likely going to mark him as a dangerous dog and not a menacing one. At this point we may as well just get the dog put down if he is going to be caged up 12 hours a day.

 

Any advice? 

 

 

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tdierikx   

Unfortunately there is no easy fix for your situation... sending him off somewhere and expecting to have someone else "fix" the issue isn't going to work... YOU need to work with a qualified and experienced behaviourist/trainer to address the dog's issues and understand that he's always going to be unpredictable around strange children.

 

persephone has given you the best advice re trainers above... if anyone can help you work on this issue, it's Steve and his team...

 

T.

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juice   

There is no quick fix with this, it will always be there and its upto you to manage it for the rest of the dogs life, even with the the help of a trainer.

You need to man up and ask yourself wether you can protect every child 100% of the time that come into your house, or if the dog gets out.

Personally it would be getting the green dream with me.

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syntaxtc   

Appreciate all the feedback.

 

Its pretty hard to make a decision its not only the fact we are emotionally attached as a family to him, pretty much financially attached as well.

 

He broke his leg when he was 6 months old and spent 4 weeks at ARH being nursed and treated.

 

The $$$ we have put into the dog is ridiculous and for us to just end him like that, pretty tough.

 

I will give Steve a call today and see if there is anything he can do for us behavior wise.

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You very well might have to keep putting money into this dog. Even if you get Steve’s training there’s no guarantee the council will accept that as suitable for this dogs management and require you to comply with dangerous dogs rulings anyway. Training is not a once off and neither is the management. You have to continue to maintain both for the rest of this dogs life whether he is contained or not. 

 

You also need to ask to ask yourself if you can keep visiting children safe. Your children are going to have friends visiting. You need to 100% commit to keeping this dog under control and separate from visiting children. He can’t be slipping around you and knocking kids over, rushing them, nipping. He is a big dog with an aggressive history. It’s not safe. 

 

I have a big dog too. She is well trained. She even likes children. She is just also very nervous and flighty. So I  only let a select bunch of children of certain ages upwards be around her. All else she is contained away if I’m even slightly uncertain because I want neither her life or the children’s lives to be harmed. This is something my lifestyle allows me to do so risk to children is low. 

 

I had another big dog who had repeatedly dragged me to attack dogs and people for no real obvious reason. Although I don't have kids, sometimes there are kids visiting me and the neighbours all have kids. She was surrendered to rspca on her third strike to be put down rather than be kept and managed. She wasn’t formally listed as a dangerous dog (through pure dumb luck) but she sure behaved as one. I was very sad about it but there's very few places available for such a big dog that actively seeks to bite people (and dogs). So I chose to keep and focus on the timid one who while a bit of extra work - was safer for everyone as I found this other dog way too risky to own.  

 

Talk to Steve for an assessment of behaviour and the kind of ongoing work you will need. But also talk to your family and think about how you want to see your life go forward with this dog. It is a hard thing to plan for and there will be no quick fix and there will be ongoing costs. 

 

It won’t be easy emotionally either way  :( 

Edited by Thistle the dog
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Dogsfevr   

Irrespective of how much he has already cost you he has also cost a child the potential trust of dogs .It works both ways & to be honest how much spent in the past is meaningless compared to the future risk he may be & what damage he may do .
If you decide to keep him then you still need a safe yard for him no matter what he is listed as ,that would simply be common sense & good management  & cheaper than being sued by a family off a child .
I agree boot camp will not fix him you need a trainer that will work with you and TEACH you and your family how to manage your dog,read the signs & be able to meet any requirements placed on him

First are you sure he isn't in some form of pain from the broken leg that could potentially make him narky.
What sort of training have you previously done & what are his manners like in general .
To be honest being in a safe yard when your out is not going to impact on his life that much ,plenty of dogs live happy lives in a dog friendly run whilst owners are at work or events because they may be jumpers,destructive,poor fencing ,annoying neighbours  .
Yes you will have to follow the other restrictions placed but that is fair considering what he has already done

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syntaxtc   

Ranger gave me the dangerous dog declaration today which i will be objecting to.

 

As for his habits, he is very naughty he use to chew a lot, eat bark, trees anything he could find he would chew - this has now surpassed. 

 

Very good food manners, he will wait for a command before eating, he is not food aggressive.

 

He hates strangers. (males mainly - ive had random women walk up to him and pat him while ive been walking and he has been fine)

 

His walking habits are okay, but not the best. He will pull for the first 10 minutes then tire himself out, he will stop and sit at roads before crossing. He does lunge at people riding past on bikes or males.

 

His house manners are shocking, he will rummage through the bin for scraps and get his head stuck in it, jump up and lick plates in the sink or take food off the bench. He hasnt pee'd or poo'd inside since he was a pup.

 

As for the child he is doing well, they actually have a dog as well and the mother told me he isn't hesitant at all when approaching which is a good sign for the boy.

 

It wasn't a vicious attack i think the boy will be fine. I sound like im down talking what happened but really i am not, nor am i defending what my dog has done but the damage was very minimal.

 

Im just glad the boy walked away okay, it could have been a lot worse considering dogs have jaws and teeth that can crush bones.

 

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And what did Steve at K9 pro advise ? 
his new blog is spot on !!

one excerpt, if you haven't read it yet .  MY BOLDED words

 

 

Quote

 

What you CAN do if your dog has done something wrong

Contact us straight away, we can give you some advice on the best way to proceed. 02 45 789 789.

It may be that we can help you avoid your dog being declared and it may be that we will have to put a behaviour modification plan in place so that you can appeal later.

It really depends on what has transpired and the details. We may not be able to help you avoid your dog being declared dangerous too.

Until this happens, keep your dog at home, do not take your dog out in public again in case something else goes wrong.

Do not argue with any other parties including council officers or rangers.

If your dog has got aggression issues but nothing has happened (yet)

Get help, councils appreciate pro active people who are trying and getting help from a professional and this will have an impact on the problem behaviours.

If your dog is Declared Dangerous, you can appeal this after 12 months, but it will help a lot if in that 12 month period, your dog is working with a professional to help reduce the problem behaviours.

All dogs can be improved, all dogs!


http://blog.k9pro.com.au/dangerous-dog/

 

 

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1 hour ago, syntaxtc said:

Im just glad the boy walked away okay, it could have been a lot worse considering dogs have jaws and teeth that can crush bones.

So when it happens again with much greater consequences, you can’t argue that you didn’t know.  

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   You should really talk with someone like Steve to come and help you guys out with an assessment and training modification - whether he is declared dangerous or not. 

 

Incidents escalate and he’s clearly struggling with his impulses. They can help you help him to be a safe dog around people. That will reflect very well on you to the council more than an appeal. 

 

Absolutely keep him away from other people’s kids. Even if he seems okay his history says he is not. 

 

It may not feel like it, but there is way more at stake than having a new dog pen and fancy collar :( 

 

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syntaxtc   

I contacted his organisation but didn't speak directly with Steve. After explaining the situation she said Steve is the only person who can asses your dog because he has bitten someone. He has no free assessment spots until December unfortunately.

 

He has already been declared dangerous, i have the declaration already so it is a bit too late for that - it is a fair assessment i wont argue that fact, but i will object it.

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Well, I hope you have booked an asessment for a few months time  .

1 hour ago, persephone said:

If your dog is Declared Dangerous, you can appeal this after 12 months, but it will help a lot if in that 12 month period, your dog is working with a professional to help reduce the problem behaviours.

 

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Uh.

 

1. I wouldn't trust him around any of the kids & would be setting very strict rules for all of them.  No kids in the back yard unsupervised. No strange kids near him ever again kind of thing.

 

 

2. Being "caged up 12 hours a day" isn't the absolute worst outcome. You just have to create a suitable, safe & fulfilling environment for him.  Have a look for enrichment activities for him.

 

 

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Declaration or not, if you want to keep him alive get a large secure run anyway. Your dog has bitten a child, it is dangerous.

 

 

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I've noticed many places sell enclosures that meet most requirements (check for any variation by your council. This meets VIC requirements, don't know about NSW). It is only $300 + the time it takes to set up. They're basically big bedrooms. If you've ever set up a camera to monitor your dogs, they tend to sleep while everyone is away. Even the active ones (i have two very active dogs, they still sleep while waiting for me to get home).

 

It would also make a good place to put him when your kids have friends over or strange men visit.

 

Muzzles you can get at any old pet store - you want a plastic on like a baskerville for walks, not a nylon one. Baskervilles they can still drink, take treats and if coordinated enough - fetch a ball.

 

The declaration collars can be bought online as can the warning signs.

 

These are all much cheaper than the fines you would get for not complying while you appeal. Appealing takes time.

 

I assume the intent to declare has an effective date? 

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Rebanne   
1 hour ago, Thistle the dog said:

I've noticed many places sell enclosures that meet most requirements (check for any variation by your council. This meets VIC requirements, don't know about NSW). It is only $300 + the time it takes to set up. They're basically big bedrooms. If you've ever set up a camera to monitor your dogs, they tend to sleep while everyone is away. Even the active ones (i have two very active dogs, they still sleep while waiting for me to get home).

 

Don't they have to be on concrete? As in escape proof, no digging out

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1 hour ago, Rebanne said:

Don't they have to be on concrete? As in escape proof, no digging out

My thoughts too ... on a concrete slab , with a mesh/solid roof . 

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