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RSPCA in the news

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11 minutes ago, teddybeans said:

So is the general public impression about them that they are operating as a business (ie bottom line profit) or that they mission is to save animals?

 

I wonder what determines which pet they put down.  Must be pretty traumatic making that decision.

Like most institutions, the RSPCA is a mixed bag. Many/most of the volunteers are true animal lovers, some working under delusion.  Local branches vary and I'll bet some do far more good than harm.  In some places crazed animal rights people, or high paid executives create sickening problems. 

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14 minutes ago, sandgrubber said:

Like most institutions, the RSPCA is a mixed bag. Many/most of the volunteers are true animal lovers, some working under delusion.  Local branches vary and I'll bet some do far more good than harm.  In some places crazed animal rights people, or high paid executives create sickening problems. 

Thanks for clarifying that.  I always thought RSPCA was a charity like organisation doing good for animals.  But you are right, our world now has all sorts of people.

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tdierikx   
22 hours ago, teddybeans said:

So is the general public impression about them that they are operating as a business (ie bottom line profit) or that they mission is to save animals?

 

I wonder what determines which pet they put down.  Must be pretty traumatic making that decision.

RSPCA Yagoona (Sydney) definitely appears to run as a profit making business... but has charity status, so lots of tax breaks and government grants are an added bonus.

 

As to how they determine which animals to put down - they use a "temperament test" that was developed to identify issues that may need to be worked on to make an animal rehomable, but not many actually get the time spent on those issues - most animals that "fail" the test are put down instead. I have a copy of the test, and can tell you that not many animals in a strange and stressful shelter environment surrounded by strangers will pass it...

 

22 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

Like most institutions, the RSPCA is a mixed bag. Many/most of the volunteers are true animal lovers, some working under delusion.  Local branches vary and I'll bet some do far more good than harm.  In some places crazed animal rights people, or high paid executives create sickening problems. 

Most of the smaller RSPCA branches have good people doing good work... RSPCA Yagoona is massive, but has a pretty poor track record IMHO when it comes to allocation of resources for the betterment of outcomes for the animals in their care.

 

T.

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Worth adding, in general, RSPCA and like organizations, worldwide, at the top levels, are inclined to spend far more money looking for donations and grinding political axes than helping animals.  I do support reducing cruelty.  I think many of the popular appeals focus on the wrong targets and push for measures not in the best interest of dogs. 

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3 hours ago, tdierikx said:

I have a copy of the test, and can tell you that not many animals in a strange and stressful shelter environment surrounded by strangers will pass it...

 

This was what i was worried about.  Even a timid dog that doesn't have a mean bone in their body could end up on this list because of the sudden change in environment that they are not used to. 

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Lhok   
13 hours ago, tdierikx said:

RSPCA Yagoona (Sydney) definitely appears to run as a profit making business... but has charity status, so lots of tax breaks and government grants are an added bonus.

 

As to how they determine which animals to put down - they use a "temperament test" that was developed to identify issues that may need to be worked on to make an animal rehomable, but not many actually get the time spent on those issues - most animals that "fail" the test are put down instead. I have a copy of the test, and can tell you that not many animals in a strange and stressful shelter environment surrounded by strangers will pass it...

 

Most of the smaller RSPCA branches have good people doing good work... RSPCA Yagoona is massive, but has a pretty poor track record IMHO when it comes to allocation of resources for the betterment of outcomes for the animals in their care.

 

T.

Oh yes that temperament test, I once saw a young kelpie fail that test. They put him in a yard with a 1.5m fence. They then brought out another dog and started playing with it in the next door yard. The kelpie cleared it no sweat to go play with them and then was deemed a fence jumper and put down. Oh and on the same day I was told if I volunteered there I might hear dark humour about euth'ing animals and they sometimes did it because if they didn't find it funny they would break.

Due to other reasons which compounded the issue, that was the day I lost faith in the Rspca, I walked out of the local branch and never returned.

--Lhok

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asal   

ok it's american, but about time someone wrote a book about the  industry.

 

remarkable the parallels 

 

the writers were bitten and learned first hand and horrified by what they learned the hard way.

 

Lisa Layton has sampled the introduction to Laura and Rick Bell's second edition of their book Animal Owners Under Attack, now titled The Animal Rights War

https://www.amazon.com/…/1092300473/ref=cm_sw_r_fa_dp_U_T9Q…:

"Did you know that animal owners are getting abused every day around the world? ~ Did you know that animals are being removed from the homes they share with their loving owners every day? ~ Did you know that many animals are treated horribly by the people that steal them from their owners and a high percentage are convenience killed? ~ Did you know that the animal rights movement is buying influence with state legislators to get increasingly restrictive laws passed? ~ Did you know that these laws create a system where private citizens are given police powers to arrest animal owners and steal their animals? ~ Did you also know that these private animal police are exempt from government required accountability and transparency requirements even though they are performing government work? ~ Do you know most animal owner arrests and animal thefts are conducted under false pretense? ~ Do you know that anonymous complaints from a nasty neighbor, ex-spouse or partner, business competitors, AR trolls, your vet, etc. can get you arrested and cost you all of your animals? ~ Do you know that cities, counties, townships, etc. that are not successful regarding enforcing illegal zoning laws will make up reasons to steal your animals and arrest you? ~ Do you know what the true agendas of popular animal rights organizations are? ~ Do you know the differences between self-funded rescues and sanctuaries and donation-funded rescues and sanctuaries? ~ Are you aware of what the consequences of a low tax and smaller government agenda are? ~ Do you know why false pretense animal owner arrests and animal thefts are not a Republican versus Democrat issue? ~ Do you know who wrote the United Nation's Agenda 21? ~ Do you know what the original purpose of Agenda 21 was? ~ Have you read actual stories from unjustly treated animal owners? ~ Are you tuned-in to how some animal owners are fueling the animal rights movement? ~ Would you believe it if we told you how the negative events conducted by animal protection organizations parallel what is going on with child protective services and elder care services? ~ You probably use social media yourself, but do you realize how these under-regulated media platforms contribute to bullying and the defamation of average Americans and their families? ~ As you read our book you will get the answers to all of these questions and a whole lot more. Six years ago we were unjustly attacked by people posing as friends. People that we had helped over and over again for several months. At the time, we operated a Sanctuary and Hospice for horses. We had horses that were ill that we and our vets were treating. The horses eventually got better, but not until after the people we were helping used their poor condition to rev-up a social media attack on us, which triggered complaints against us by complete strangers. Their attack used staged videos and altered photos, but that did not matter to social media mobs who are addicted to staged reality show drama. At the time, we were naive to the negative affects of social media, but we soon learned. Since that time we have educated ourselves on issues facing animal owners every day. We were lucky, if you can call what happened to us being lucky. We were criminally investigated for 5 1/2 months. We were completely exonerated and never were charged with a crime and never had animals taken. The end of the investigation coincided with the horses recovery. To this day we still have people falsely accuse us of animal abuse and it seems there is nothing we can do about it. Thank you for considering buying our book. We know you will learn a lot about the animal protection industry. There was a lot we didn't understand 6 years ago and we suspect there is a lot you may not understand.
Laura and Rick Bell

 

 

copied from the Amazon site where the book is for sale

 

 

"'The Animal Rights War' exposes the seedy underbelly of the Animal Protection Industry (API). In this modern age of social media, most people have seen or imagined the positive affects of the evolving API, but there are disturbing affects too. 'The Animal Rights War' is a unique compilation of facts, combined with real stories of interactions between animal owners and the Animal Protection Industry (API). Do you really know the difference between Animal Rights, Animal Welfare, Animal Rescue, and Animal Advocacy? Have you considered what positive AND negative affects social media has had on the API? 'The Animal Rights War' identifies all of the different groups, sectors, and sub-sectors that make up the Animal Protection Industry (API). APIs include self-funded rescues and sanctuaries, donation-funded rescues, humane societies, and SPCAs, and taxpayer-funded government agencies, and everything in between. You will see how money, politics, social media, and human nature are all playing a role in structuring an Animal Protection Industry that isn't always fair or just. Most of us want animals treated well, so we support Animal Protection Organizations with our time and money. While there are many good Animal Protection Organizations, new laws and social media have allowed the API to become corrupted by an ever increasing number of bad actors. 'The Animal Rights War' is the only resource available today that tells the WHOLE story.One thing is for sure; when you get done reading 'The Animal Rights War' you will have a much better grasp of where your API donations go and you will have been advised on how to protect yourself, family members, friends, and animals from the bad actors. You will be surprised to learn what is going on in the Animal Protection Industry, we guarantee it! Buy 'The Animal Rights War' now!

Edited by asal

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I used to actively support the RSPCA and thought the sun shone out of their bums. I volunteered at one of their shelters regularly and was also a foster carer. Even though on the ground staff hadn't changed I started to notice decisions and processes that were not in the best interest of the animals at all. It became all about the organisation's needs at the expense of the animals. Even in a volunteer capacity I started to feel very manipulated. My breaking point was being repeatedly 'asked' one shift to foster a young pup with a broken leg or it would have to be pts. Yep, that was it's 2 options, all on me. I fostered it of course but my relationship with them ground to a halt after the pup was adopted. They had no right to put that on me.

 

And it hasn't got any better. I've experienced negative impacts on animals via independant rescue work, through friends and families personal experiences and also my own. What I despise about them the most (well there is a list really) but first is how they use emotive images of abused animals to raise funds but those funds don't go to that particular dog. Noooo! That dog was likely already put to sleep for its injuries because it would cost too much to vet care and rehab them! But they are the animals who need the assistance most! Two is that if they were truly doing all the protective and rehabilitative work that people think they are all the squillions of independant rescue groups wouldn't need to exist. RSPCA would be the hallmark rescue program successfully saving all creatures great and small. Instead we've had every form of rescue you can imagine spring up to do the work they should be doing. Then we come to my third hate - RSPCA having all the money (public and government) and farming out animals to independant and breed specific rescues who do all the work (fostering, vet care, feeding and medicating them) and the RSPCA keeping all the money and recording that as a positive rehoming on their stats. So rescue does all the work with none of the money or pats on the back! How is that ok? How did that deal even come about???? It happened because rescue were simply trying to save more animals than the RSPCA would and struck a one sided deal.

 

The money they access is astounding yet they are always screaming for more. Up here in QLD there are funding programs charity organisations can apply to (the monies come from gambling benefits). I know for a fact that the RSPCA not only apply for big monies pretty much every funding round but they are also successful pretty much every funding round. It's been like that for years too. It's how they built their Wacol facility. There is no other single rescue organisation in this country that even comes close to a bulging bank balance. I wouldn't begrudge them that if they weren't always crying extreme poverty and poor animals whilst doing very little in relation to public education (to improve dogs care and reduce surrender rates), addressing back yard breeding and puppy farming (over supply feeding into the rescue system) and being a strong voice for the animals in cruelty cases (so we can provide better deterrents for animal harm).

 

If the RSPCA ceased to exist tomorrow I'm not really sure what difference it would make? Independant rescues are already on scene to take animals every time there is a hoarding or puppy farming seizure. So few cases go to court for prosecution that they could go back to police prosecution processes. I guess their shelters could be taken over by another organisation, particularly those that are also running as pounds. Unwanted animals are already dumped on the steps of rescue, pounds, vets and the streets so that wont change. Perhaps local councils would have to take responsibility for public education and animal welfare in their own areas more successfully? Many used to do this.

 

What do others think? What unique services are they successfully offering? I think in QLD they have a fostering program for people escaping DV but with funds and foster carers that could be replicated by any rescue.

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asal   

zzzz  Yes,  just about everyone is asleep at the wheel...

 

I twigged what was going on in 2000 after becoming a felon for a dog with nothing wrong with it, just because a dill with an rspca uniform formed an opinion (with no knowledge of the subject anyway)....... that is unappealable....

 

I gather this lady is an American.  

 

The warning is clear and she is right....   look at the victorian Breeder who send a pup co-owned to S.A.only last week,   the new  co=owners vet has told her the new law is that ALL puppies born after the new law came into effect must be desexed by six months or he will have to report her and her puppy for prosecution.

They may have to send the puppy back to Vic if they want to use her for breeding...... believe it or not?  Its on one of the ANKC forums

 

 

Australians need to wake up, the rspca here are further advanced which means if we don't become exponentially more vocal - and fast, this will be our reality in half the time predicted in this post.

https://m.facebook.com/groups/1509679472674969?view=permalink&id=2083070482002529

 
12274734_10207688103581892_1802119159812
Linda L. Minten to Farmers to Felons - laws, regulations, and the advancement of animal rights

Most folks are skeptical when they hear my warnings.. figure I am just a loon. Over the course of several years we have posted facts based on my crazy. We have said there will be overly restrictive laws that discourage animal ownership... putting average owners at risk of felony charges (check), We said the AR groups control the legislative and judicial process (check), we have said some of the vets being utilized are AR affiliated (check), we have talked about the financial gain for rescues to instigate and participate in seizures with immunity (check)... We have said this is an environmental agenda and it is all tied in to one (check).. We have demonstrated that they divide and conquer using one group to destroy the other (check). Here is the deal.. the goal is NO animals because they are bad for the environment. It means less people too.

So if you own a pet, are a farmer, ride horses, rodeo, eat meat, or even if you are a vegan on (their side)... you are each and every one of you at risk.. maybe not today, but you are at risk.

Gone will be the circus, zoos, rodeos, animal sports/shows, breeders, farmers, timber, service animals, and eventually pets (after they get done using those people's donations to take everyone else out). No domestic animals, no food. We, you and I, are the enemy they seek to destroy on behalf of the planet.

So while you can sit on your high horse and tell the world how great of an owner you are and that it would never effect you and the person being accused must be guilty - think again. Take a hard look at what is happening around you and realize it isn't just effecting the bad guys, it is effecting the good. Your rights to own an animal or farm your ground, and in some cases drive or use your vehicle and cut a tree... to use your property as if you owned it rather than the government... all those things are at risk. Same enemy wearing different masks and they use us to do their bidding.

So if you are a good guy and live a perfect life and think you are good.. you are NOT. While easy to jump on the bandwagon to destroy someone based on information you can't personally verify please remember it can and someday may be you or someone you love. The poor guy who builds a pond for fire protection.. the old lady next door feeding feral cats... YOU because your fifteen year old dog has tarter and you decided not to risk having them put out anymore. Not your call anymore because they have infiltrated every aspect of our life with our collective help. It is going to get worse.

Call me crazy but I predict within five years it will be nearly impossible to own an animal legally without risk of being charged as a felon. (in many cases we are there already). I believe breeders will be a thing of the past. We will shut down imports then and require spaying of all pets. A lot of farmers are going to bail because they just can't keep up with all the regulation and attacks. We will have some problem that creates food shortages because we have set ourselves up for food insecurity.. We will cram people into cities, the country will be left to the rich and wild. You may be allowed to have a car.. or not. They will tax and legislate us until we are no longer a free nation. We can no longer enjoy the right to liberty or freedom. Yes, I am crazy - crazy scared. I saw it years ago and finally some are starting to wake up.. but even in these groups I see them helping the AR agenda (better renamed the environmental agenda cause it has nothing more to do with animals then eliminating them) by infighting or jumping on the dang bandwagon without facts. My opinion for sure and I really really hope I am wrong.

For kicks and giggles, look around your home, property, at your animals and tell me if you looked through the lens of an animal rights advocate who's goal is to eliminate animals (one generation and out, better dead then bred), accompanied by a "rescue" hoping to benefit financially with no risk to them (immunity) - would you survive it? Think long and hard cause I know a lot of people who dearly love their animals that would find themselves felons.

We better get it together and start working as a team rather than against each other or this ship will sail and there will be nothing but would have should have could haves... my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by asal

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1 hour ago, asal said:

 

For kicks and giggles, look around your home, property, at your animals and tell me if you looked through the lens of an animal rights advocate who's goal is to eliminate animals (one generation and out, better dead then bred), accompanied by a "rescue" hoping to benefit financially with no risk to them (immunity) - would you survive it? Think long and hard cause I know a lot of people who dearly love their animals that would find themselves felons.

We better get it together and start working as a team rather than against each other or this ship will sail and there will be nothing but would have should have could haves... my opinion.

 

 

 

 

 

Nup, sorry, that's where she lost me. And then she throws in the 'working together' line! Great way to get the team together.  

 

I'm yet to benefit financially and if it wasn't for donations and the unpaid hours we put in there wouldn't be a rescue to speak of. I also own a pedigree dog myself (and I'm not the only one) so where is the anti-breeder ethos here. 

 

And I don't know what it's like in the U.S. but some states like VIC have rescue under the same umbrella as breeders so rescue aren't magically immune from AR or Govt pressure.

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asal   
13 hours ago, Powerlegs said:

Nup, sorry, that's where she lost me. And then she throws in the 'working together' line! Great way to get the team together.  

 

I'm yet to benefit financially and if it wasn't for donations and the unpaid hours we put in there wouldn't be a rescue to speak of. I also own a pedigree dog myself (and I'm not the only one) so where is the anti-breeder ethos here. 

 

And I don't know what it's like in the U.S. but some states like VIC have rescue under the same umbrella as breeders so rescue aren't magically immune from AR or Govt pressure.

no idea what she meant either,  the only one who can take/rescue/seize your animals here far as I can remember

with complete immunity is rspca.

 

From what ive seen of the Animal Welfare league here in nsw is that they are excellent, everything and more than the rspca once were....

 

 

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tdierikx   

The Animal Welfare League have exactly the same powers as the RSPCA when it comes to enforcing POCTAA... but they don't seem to seize as many animals or take people to court with the same veracity. Maybe they are more focused on educating to help people comply with the regulation, rather than prosecuting for profit?

 

When you consider that someone pleading guilty to 1 count of aggravated cruelty can score the RSPCA up to $20k in fines, and the fact that attempting to fight a number of charges will cost someone in excess of $100-200k in legal fees alone... can you see the efficacy of laying multiple charges, whether they can be proved or not, then offering to drop a number of those charges if a plea is made to at least 1? Easy money IMHO...

 

T.

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18 hours ago, asal said:

no idea what she meant either,  the only one who can take/rescue/seize your animals here far as I can remember

with complete immunity is rspca.

 

From what ive seen of the Animal Welfare league here in nsw is that they are excellent, everything and more than the rspca once were....

 

 

I took the meaning to be that rescues piggyback seizures or raids undertaken by the big orgs and swoop in as immune 3rd parties simply because they are 'rescue' (as she put it). If she means rspca/aspca/peta then she should say so instead of sounding paranoid about anyone rescuing pets.

 

I clearly get butt-hurt about being lumped in with anti-everything nutters and AR. :laugh:

Edited by Powerlegs
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asal   

just spotted this.... so on the mark true.

 

people dont seem to recognise hypocrisy when they see it anymore

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzno such thin as adopting your pet.jpg

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Quote

 

semantics
The main purpose for internet forums. 
The study of discussing the meaning/interpretation of words or groups of words within a certain context; usually in order to win some form of argument.

 

 
Edited by Powerlegs
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asal   

Surely you cannot buy a Sentient being, or pay/buy to adopt it either?

 

 

This is not animal welfare....

 

this is animal rights, the right to live wild and free, not exploited by man, in case the sheeple haven't twigged there is a very big difference.

 

 

 

 

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.jpg

Edited by asal
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asal   

interesting article.2016 .. shame its been a total failure to get the government boofoons to realise what this journalist has recognised... not even dogs nsw is game to say animal rights has now control of them.

 

to scared of offending them.

 

https://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/rendezview/the-rspca-cares-more-about-political-activism-than-animal-welfare/news-story/d2a6ddc43f2e8d370efc6d15b85dff41?fbclid=IwAR3CmSeu-mTl6vMtxSh2LK-xIOI31AUaOQKteJGhz0DmtEykXv_6mfgAcLQ

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I'm on a Facebook page for a US rescue that predominantly has farm animals (and goats in particular). They go to extreme lengths to save those animals and deal with a lot of heartache as a result. They had a post recently where they expressed their despair at hobby/old school farmers still breeding, slaughtering and eating animals.

 

Humans have been omni's since the dawn of time, seeking enough food of any type to keep their hunger satiated and their bodies fueled. Today we have more time, money and ability to eat whatever we want whenever we want without breaking a sweat than any time before. I see no possible way of stopping the consumption of animal products (for clothing, food, etc) regardless of what tactics are used. But for the sake of our collective health and that of our planet we would definately benefit from a significant reduction in our excessive consumption rates. If they focused on people being less wasteful (buying and then throwing away food, clothes, shoes, homewares and the like), more mindful and more balanced in their regularl consumption  that would have to lead to less animals needing to be bred, kept in horrible conditions and slaughtered. I know there would be a financial impact on some of the big companies that control these mega farms and slaughter houses but less animals bred and killed has to be a win for the animals. Instead PETA is driving people away from the issue with their ludicrous behaviour (seen this fight with a seafood restaurant? https://www.distractify.com/trending/2018/09/06/1NVzjP/peta-jimmys-famous-seafood). They probably need to have their blood pressure monitored during planning meetings.

 

Same for companion animals. More time, more money and more desire so our buying habits have changed dramatically and people have found ways to cash in on that. If people shopped more mindfully and were less wasteful (ie less inclined to neglect or abandon because they put more time into their purchasing) that could only be a good habit to develop. I don't care what cutesy name you call a breed, for the sake of the animals themselves we can't continue to breed at the rates we are. It is out of balance. And it is not quality breeders who are pumping out hundreds of oodles a year so the tippy toeing needs to stop. Again a national education campaign about the reality behind the different breeding arrangements and their sale/post sale support methods might actually make more of a change than new laws. I couldn't care less whether a puppy farmer or back yard breeder lost money from less sales because less sales means less bad breeding. But RSPCA wants to just keep all their millions rather than educate. Even if they used their Million Paws Walk as an education platform that might effect change in hundreds of thousands of people's minds across our country.

 

It's all getting a bit ridiculous. There is no point banging on about the difference between adoption and buying or kill rates or animals being sentient beings. The core issue is the number of abandoned and unwanted animals that die every year because they don't have a better, permanent option. And if that better option is a lack of permanent places for them all to go then Houston, it is an over production problem. Then you go to who is 'producing' the biggest amount and bingo! Looking at you puppy farmers. I wish our legislators had the balls to focus their attentions there first and see what comes of it.

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asal   

except there is a massive assumption going on, actually has been going on for decades.

 

That the hundreds of thousands of puppies bred can be traced to unscrupulous breeders and or puppy farms.

 

when the real elephant in the room that can never be traced are the hundreds of thousands, nay millions australia wide who have 

 

their pet and breed a litter or litters......totally under the radar

 

As Ivor Slezacheck once said to me as people were coming into his surgery with parvo affected dogs and puppies after a week of strong winds from the east.... "I can guarantee when the winds are blowing from the east I will be getting anything from three to a dozen a day infected dogs and puppies, because Mt Druitt is the largest vector of unvaccinated dogs in the sydney basin."... Yes his surgery was on the western side...  ... now after high winds if you have a litter or puppy to vaccinate its a good idea to first ring the intended vet to see if infected dogs are at the surgery to avoid turning up with your uninfected puppy or puppies...

 

you can get rid of the registered traceable breeders, you can get rid of the registered traceable puppy farms... but you will never get rid of the real problem... the hundreds of thousands of untraceable one or a dozen untraceable litter owners and breeders and they are where the vast majority are actually coming from...

Ive driven though where Ivor was talking,,,, they are everywhere,,, all breeds, all kinds many running the streets in packs just as

they once did in the 1960's   

 

You will find the same in every town and city of this land, the dont care a shit about the law neighbourhoods....

 

nothing is going to penetrate there

 

they neither vaccinate or chip any pet and how long has it been law now?  over 20 years I believe

 

doubt it?  just look at the stats for unchipped and more than likely never vaccinated 

dogs and cats entering the pound system.... they sure didnt come from any registered breeder or puppy farm,,, they obey the law, believe it or not

 

no matter how many laws you demand and have passed, they totally miss the gnats because they are too tiny to be caught in the net

Edited by asal
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