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SamToocan

Brindle Pug in Australia

76 posts in this topic

haoxian   
On 2/8/2019 at 8:24 PM, SamToocan said:

I don't have that attachment, I have insert other media which's asks for a URL 

Looks like Sam has gone missing..

All might not be as it seems..

Has absolutely no problems posting picture on Facebook sites & replying to comments with attachments. 

If anything a Pug-Frenchie Cross



 

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33 minutes ago, haoxian said:

Has absolutely no problems posting picture on Facebook sites & replying to comments with attachments. 

I can't put pictures on DOL on my phone  either, jus' saying ..FB is fine .

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RuralPug   
59 minutes ago, haoxian said:

Looks like Sam has gone missing..

All might not be as it seems..

Has absolutely no problems posting picture on Facebook sites & replying to comments with attachments. 

If anything a Pug-Frenchie Cross



 

Alright I'll bite - though i probably shouldn't.

The OP asked a question and it has been answered, not everyone haunts the forum every five minutes, especially after they have had their question answered. But if you want to believe that means they have "gone missing" well that is your prerogative. I certainly don't find anything sinister in this instance.

Persephone has explained about the posting picture part (again)

Both Fliss and I have explained that this pup is NOT brindle. Between the two of us there is probably a total of a century of experience with this breed, including closely watching many fawn pug puppies from from birth to adulthood. We are sure. Unless you are privy to photos or info that has not been shared here there is zero evidence of any Frenchie blood in this instance.
 

And just to be extra helpful I am now going to find internet pics of brindle puppies of a similar age (different breeds of course) and of a litter a fawn pugs at a similar age. So that people can see the difference. :)

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RuralPug   

Brilliant! thank you @Rebanne  your brindle puppy comparison is perfect and beats mine lollow LOL

I will go straight to baby pug pics. Watch the coat colour change rapidly:
28 August 5c60daf146fb1_JKlitter28Aug.thumb.jpg.9a3fdc8bc7bc1219e69ab0c46d66e105.jpg  31 August 5c60db29ac88e_JKlitter31August.thumb.jpg.137c9ce4d6c0be9bac213cbec5e81ee9.jpg 



9 September5c60db7f013f7_JKlitter9Sept.thumb.jpg.f397c68736755ad2cb4c4409f088075c.jpg  13 September 5c60dba93ef52_JKlitter13Sept.thumb.jpg.74c26113fc91214f5823159ca8339c85.jpg




 

22 September5c60dbe619b56_JKpup22sept.thumb.jpg.c31b418d448e6b8f9886a4704371c335.jpg 7 October  5c60dc42198ff_JKlitters7oct.thumb.jpg.b67b4fa84d1b3c75a37b1c7d4393217b.jpg okay two litters LOL but same age!





Two fawns from this litter on 7 November. Just about final coat colour 5c60dd2f16c76_@7november.thumb.jpg.4389449662e10903950abd8162194cb8.jpg



 

 

 

:)


 

 

 

 

Edited by RuralPug
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RuralPug   

But while I was looking on the internet I found:
 

Brindle Pug Cross puppy (probably about 6 weeks old)  brindle-pug-mix.thumb.jpg.599a17fc5aa86ba1afd51fc31bb4f917.jpg


Imagine how much darker this pup would have been at three weeks (the age of the one in the OP's photo)


And as an extra plus :laugh: I found a Chimera Pug! This one is most likely pure bred:  5c60df3ff2026_Chimerapug.jpg.270f7be5ba1c14f276ac8236059840da.jpg

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Rebanne   
4 hours ago, RuralPug said:

Two fawns from this litter on 7 November. Just about final coat colour 5c60dd2f16c76_@7november.thumb.jpg.4389449662e10903950abd8162194cb8.jpg
 

:)

 

 

and my red puppy, which was so similar in colour to the fawn pugs at birth is a rich red, nothing like a fawn pug in colouring ( or much else :laugh: )

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haoxian   

Let get to the science of it... DNA.. doesn't lie...

To make it simple.. Brindle cannot come from 2 Pure Pugs... 

So the suggestion of it being Brindle is False. It could only originate from a Cross-Breed.

Interestingly has managed to post many photos of other FB sites even after was asked for details here. Still claiming to be Brindle there..  

"AI" was a smokescreen. Posts of other sites now removed once asked by many to provide more detail. Maybe it got too hard.. 

The Tangled Web unravelled..





 
 

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haoxian   
20 hours ago, RuralPug said:

But while I was looking on the internet I found:
 

Brindle Pug Cross puppy (probably about 6 weeks old)  


Imagine how much darker this pup would have been at three weeks (the age of the one in the OP's photo)


And as an extra plus :laugh: I found a Chimera Pug! This one is most likely pure bred:  



LOL

DNA science simple says Brindle not possible in Pugs... SO anything that looks like a Pug with Brindle Pattern IS a CROSS Breed .. No maybe about it.. 

Chimera Pug.. Well that photo was debunked years ago.. The owner has never been found & the appropriate DNA Testing has never been done. Jumped on the coat tails of the proven Cat Chimera. Imagine if it was true the owner would be famous & make millions on Social Media. 

And if you check the Lighting .. The shadows are all in the wrong place. As are the reflections. No Flash used.. Check the eyes. 
 

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RuralPug   
11 hours ago, haoxian said:



LOL

DNA science simple says Brindle not possible in Pugs... SO anything that looks like a Pug with Brindle Pattern IS a CROSS Breed .. No maybe about it.. 

Chimera Pug.. Well that photo was debunked years ago.. The owner has never been found & the appropriate DNA Testing has never been done. Jumped on the coat tails of the proven Cat Chimera. Imagine if it was true the owner would be famous & make millions on Social Media. 

And if you check the Lighting .. The shadows are all in the wrong place. As are the reflections. No Flash used.. Check the eyes. 
 

I'm glad you agree with me that the Brindle is a cross.

I'll take your word for it that the chimera Pug pic is photoshopped or whatever, but I'm sticking to the science that Pugs are dogs and therefore can have mosaic mismarking, which is commonly called chimera in dogs although the chimera dogs only have a single set of DNA, unlike horses. Verified examples of these types of canine chimeras are quite easy to find to anyone bothered to look.

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haoxian   
18 minutes ago, RuralPug said:

I'm glad you agree with me that the Brindle is a cross.

I'll take your word for it that the chimera Pug pic is photoshopped or whatever, but I'm sticking to the science that Pugs are dogs and therefore can have mosaic mismarking, which is commonly called chimera in dogs although the chimera dogs only have a single set of DNA, unlike horses. Verified examples of these types of canine chimeras are quite easy to find to anyone bothered to look.

Ruralpug

Sorry to disappoint but DNA & colouring is such that the Brindle Mosaic is not genetically possible in the Pug Breed. Not without the addition of a cross breed. Usually a French Bulldog is added to the mix.

Far too complex an issue to discuss on a simple forum. There is science behind it.. 

Verified Chimeras is a DNA & Genetics issue & only way it can be proven beyond any doubt.  

What confuses me on this supposed Brindle is why ask the question then not provide the origins of the Sire & Dam. 

I could go into the many Falsified Pedigrees used to justify some of these dodgy colour claims.


All it comes down to is Greedy BYB's trying to scam extra $$$'s 

Edited by haoxian

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RuralPug   

@haoxian

I'll need some educating here - with references please! What in hell is a Brindle mosaic? Never heard of it! Sounds like a contradiction in terms to me  but I'm willing to learn.

And surely you realise that genome (unless the genome in a breed is limited to a single colour, like Weims) has nothing to do with chimera dogs as the mosaic is a somatic mutation which happens during the embryo stage?

 I have repeatedly stated that chimera is a term in dogs used to describe the mosaic mutation and is NOT used to denote chimera as it is used in some other species (where two zygotes fuse to form a single embryo) but you continue to use the horse term when we are discussing dogs. Like a person  who insists on using a term (e.g. "sable") as it pertains to their own breed and refusing to accept that the same term is used to describe different things in other breeds or species. In both cases science has one particular definition which does not always match the definition used in cattle, dog, horse, cat etc. breed terminology.

As to your confusion in this particular case it would seem to be caused by your assumption that all dogs are pedigreed Very early in this thread the OP stated the the parents in this case were acquired as pure bred but unregistered. (Although since you also state your belief that many pedigrees are falsified I can't imagine how seeing the pedigree, if it did exist, would help you.)

Lastly, since we (or the rest of us anyway) are all agreed that this pup is NOT brindle I simply don't understand why you are still demanding pedigree. I would understand if you were generalising but, as you use the term "this supposed Brindle" it is clear that you are NOT generalising,  thus your last line is a hurtful attack that has no basis if your single source of information about the OP is this thread.

 

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haoxian   
2 hours ago, RuralPug said:

@haoxian

I'll need some educating here - with references please! What in hell is a Brindle mosaic? 
 

Just using your reference to Mosaic Mismarkings.. lol  Thought you would grasp that one easily..  Ooops I was wrong.  Maybe need to spell it out for you next time .. 

What evidence is there as to Pure Bred of these dogs ???  None..  That's another claim that cannot be substantiated.. Only document that has any weight to purity IS Pedigree or supporting documentation.. 

But then again that doesn't matter when the Greed of BYB's takes priority & there is no concern for the Breed from those that Breed solely for $$$'s.. 

Interesting that numerous pictures posted on FB but couldn't post one here. Even after a request was made. Deleted FB posts once challenged to provide further information.

Hasn't even confirmed the photo posted here is the puppy they are talking about. 

Edited by haoxian
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asal   
17 hours ago, haoxian said:

Just using your reference to Mosaic Mismarkings.. lol  Thought you would grasp that one easily..  Ooops I was wrong.  Maybe need to spell it out for you next time .. 

What evidence is there as to Pure Bred of these dogs ???  None..  That's another claim that cannot be substantiated.. Only document that has any weight to purity IS Pedigree or supporting documentation.. 

But then again that doesn't matter when the Greed of BYB's takes priority & there is no concern for the Breed from those that Breed solely for $$$'s.. 

Interesting that numerous pictures posted on FB but couldn't post one here. Even after a request was made. Deleted FB posts once challenged to provide further information.

Hasn't even confirmed the photo posted here is the puppy they are talking about. 

give it a rest about the GREED of backyarders.  If an ankc breeder produces more than a few litters they cop the same label, remember?  With the same degree of hate as I tend to remember.

 

a lot of people would love to be an ankc member and breed purebreds, but their chances of getting one on main register for the majority has a snowflakes chance... try ringing and asking to buy a main register pup and see how far you get.... its unethical to sell main register puppies. they could fall in to the hands of a puppy farmer, remember?  so while the membership of the ankc's implode, the population of backyarders, exponentially explodes. people want a pup. they will go to where they CAN find them.  This year not next or next decade, I well member being told by more than one, the "waiting list is 3 years or  more for mine, and that's for limit register".

 

it was an ankc breeder who said their chihuahua's had produced a mutation and suddenly producing merle puppies., not a backyarder

 

they are as far as I know recognised in the USA.   Australia refused to recognise them.  It may just be coincidence but the breeder also bred another breed that had merle in a percentage of her dogs? cross pollination or old wives tales like if a mare saw a piebald horse she could produce a piebald because she saw the colour?

Edited by asal
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haoxian   
5 hours ago, asal said:

 

BYB is what is is.. Pure Breeding for $$$'s..

Nothing about the Breed..

All the excuses in the world will never change the facts that BYB's & Puppy Farms need to be outlawed.. 

Along with any ANKC Breeders that don't abide by proper breeding practices & state regulations.. 
 

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4 hours ago, haoxian said:

BYB is what is is.. Pure Breeding for $$$'s..

Nothing about the Breed..

All the excuses in the world will never change the facts that BYB's & Puppy Farms need to be outlawed.. 

Along with any ANKC Breeders that don't abide by proper breeding practices & state regulations.. 
 

There are many byb'ers who aren't greedy, and many registered breeders who are. As Asal states, getting a main register bitch is nearly impossible if you are not a member of the Pedigree clique... and even harder if you advertise that you want to, say, breed for lengthened noses in a brachy breed or a lighter coat in a heavily coated breed.  Many breeders won't sell on full registry unless they are convinced that you are going to show.  

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Maddy   
10 hours ago, haoxian said:

BYB is what is is.. Pure Breeding for $$$'s..

Nothing about the Breed..

All the excuses in the world will never change the facts that BYB's & Puppy Farms need to be outlawed.. 

Along with any ANKC Breeders that don't abide by proper breeding practices & state regulations.. 
 

The ANKC is not the be-all and end-all of the dog world.

ANKC registration simply does not make someone a better breeder. I've met backyard breeders who care for their dogs like family, and I've met ANKC breeders who treat their dogs like stock. A good breeder is a good breeder, regardless of whether or not they've paid a fee to join an association.

That aside, what of all the people who breed dogs strictly for function (which, you know, is the point of maintaining many pure breeds- function), such as hunting dogs or sheep/cattle dogs? Should we outlaw them just because they have no interest in joining your club?

 

It's a good thing I know you're not representative of the average registered breeder because.. Jesus, off-putting and nasty.

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haoxian   
6 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

There are many byb'ers who aren't greedy, and many registered breeders who are. As Asal states, getting a main register bitch is nearly impossible if you are not a member of the Pedigree clique... and even harder if you advertise that you want to, say, breed for lengthened noses in a brachy breed or a lighter coat in a heavily coated breed.  Many breeders won't sell on full registry unless they are convinced that you are going to show.  

Jus a lot of excuses..

What is the purpose of a BYB..

Nothing other that $$$'s & that is what this whole post is about.. Is it Brindle? Get more for that or keep & Exploit.. 

BYB's have no other purpose.. 

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