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FootprintsinSand

Dogs are sentient beings

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Snook   
10 hours ago, ish said:

I heard one of the animal lib representatives use this phrase on telly and it’s really stuck with me (because it’s such bullshit, not because it’s deep & thought provoking)

In the past 6 months I’ve had my 2 very old dogs put to sleep. Did they want to die? I’d say no, though I didn’t ask them. Once, I put a dog to sleep for behavioural reasons, she definitely didn’t want to die - she was young and healthy. Is there ever an animal who wants to die? 

We, the humans, get to make the call and get to make it humane for their best interests. My animals definitely passed away humanely, despite any protests about it anyone not involved in their situation could imagine they had. 

 

I wonder if you’ll  remember those words to yourself when it comes time for you to say goodbye to your pets?

Good cherry picking of a few words without their context. I was talking about animals that are used for food, not our pets. You can't euthanise cows, pigs, sheep, chickens etc with the drugs we use to humanely euthanise our pets, if people are going to eat them. I'm not aware of any humane method of killing animals that people are going to eat and if that's bullshit, please let me know what those methods are. 

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When we kill our own meat , the particular animal is dispatched with a firearm  as it is still grazing, or whatever .It is in its familiar surroundings, where it was born . 
For those interested ....there is an excellent book .

Quote

 "A vegan-turned-hunter explores the connections between humans and their food sources, inviting us to reconsider what it means to eat.

While still in high school, Tovar Cerulli began to experiment with vegetarianism. By the age of twenty, he was a vegan. Ten years later, in the face of declining health, he found himself heading into the woods, rifle in hand.

Through his personal quest, Cerulli bridges the seemingly disparate worldviews of hunting and vegetarianism: Can fishing and hunting be respectful ways for humans to connect with nature and their food? How harmless is vegetarianism? How do we make peace with the fact that life is sustained by death?
At once compassionate and probing, THE MINDFUL CARNIVORE draws on personal anecdotes, philosophy, history, and religion, offering fresh, thought-provoking ideas about the food on our plates."

from GOODREADS


 

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Snook   
56 minutes ago, persephone said:

When we kill our own meat , the particular animal is dispatched with a firearm  as it is still grazing, or whatever .It is in its familiar surroundings, where it was born . 
For those interested ....there is an excellent book .


 

That's how some extended family members who have a small farm said they kill their animals. I'm still not sure I'd call it humane, especially for those animals who don't die instantly, but it's infinitely better than a slaughterhouse. It's interesting that there would be an uproar if that was how people started killing their pets, instead of taking them to the vet, but most people don't feel the same way when it's other sentient creatures. I remember when I was involved with some rescues years ago, the massive outcry when it became known that a more rural council was killing dogs by shooting them.

 

I'm a lot less uncomfortable with the idea of people killing animals on an as needed basis for their own consumption, than I am with the mass production and slaughter of animals that has become the norm. There would certainly be a lot less animals with miserable lives and a terrifying or painful death, if everyone had to go out and kill and prepare their own meat. I'm betting that you'd suddenly have a lot more vegetarians/vegans though, at least in the cities and suburbia. 

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19 minutes ago, Snook said:

I'm still not sure I'd call it humane,

I do, in our case as it is absolutely instant ..and no one around them usually notices. As an aside , because there is zero stress the meat is of better quality .

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Snook   
23 minutes ago, persephone said:

I do, in our case as it is absolutely instant ..and no one around them usually notices. As an aside , because there is zero stress the meat is of better quality .

Instant is good, as is it not scaring any of the other animals. I would hope that everyone who kills animals this way is skilled enough to also make it instant. 

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asal   

what this route is going to do, is open the door to the taking of any animal regardless of  health and condition score, having access to food and water, clean living area will open end the number being seized and euthanased because they are "neglected" because not walked often enough and or "traumatised" because they dont greet every stranger as a new best friend and that is going to achieve what?  more income for solicitors and "welfare charities"

 

what does it achieve for the animals taken?

 

well in the case of the border collies in sa the magistrate signed off on every one of those taken being destroyed based on their being shy. on the grounds they might become savage?

 

yet kangaroos will not be allowed to be called sentient beings, solely because the law wants to still be able to issue permission to cull them, truth sure is stranger than fiction all right

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asal   

what this route is going to do, is open the door to the taking of any animal regardless of  health and condition score, having access to food and water, clean living area will open end the number being seized and euthanased because they are "neglected" because not walked often enough and or "traumatised" because they dont greet every stranger as a new best friend and that is going to achieve what?  more income for solicitors and "welfare charities"

 

what does it achieve for the animals taken?

 

well in the case of the border collies in sa the magistrate signed off on every one of those taken being destroyed based on their being shy. on the grounds they might become savage?

 

yet kangaroos will not be allowed to be called sentient beings, solely because the law wants to still be able to issue permission to cull them, truth sure is stranger than fiction all right

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For enforcement and prosecution, how does a state/territory law stand up against federal? Meaning POCTAA. 

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22 hours ago, Snook said:

Instant is good, as is it not scaring any of the other animals. I would hope that everyone who kills animals this way is skilled enough to also make it instant. 

You know we really don't have to eat animals. I have been a vegetarian (not a vegan) for seven years and my health is excellent for someone in their middle to late seventies. I do eat a lot of chick peas and lentils and I drink soy milk with calcium added. I don't eat eggs but I do eat fish once a week and I have a little milk in my coffee. I really don't need meat but unfortunately my dogs do and I have to cope with that. As some early posters have said people are eating too much meat and it is shameful to see it being thrown away. I also think people eating less meat would be better for our environment as fewer grazing animals and more growing of vegetables and legumes etc would be better for the planet.

 

Sorry powerlegs we posted at the same time.

Edited by FootprintsinSand
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Snook   
1 hour ago, FootprintsinSand said:

You know we really don't have to eat animals. I have been a vegetarian (not a vegan) for seven years and my health is excellent for someone in their middle to late seventies. I do eat a lot of chick peas and lentils and I drink soy milk with calcium added. I don't eat eggs but I do eat fish once a week and I have a little milk in my coffee. I really don't need meat but unfortunately my dogs do and I have to cope with that. As some early posters have said people are eating too much meat and it is shameful to see it being thrown away. I also think people eating less meat would be better for our environment as fewer grazing animals and more growing of vegetables and legumes etc would be better for the planet.

 

Sorry powerlegs we posted at the same time.

I don't eat meat either. I did manage to go vegan for several months but couldn't sustain it for reasons I won't go in to on a public post. Even when I did eat meat I still had low iron and low B12, which are the main nutritional arguments for eating meat, and had to supplement. Eating meat or not eating meat makes no difference to my health, so I prefer to not eat it. 

 

Edit: Just adding that my dog is on a raw BARF diet and although it grosses me out, it's what's best for him. I strongly disagree with people who feed their dogs vegetarian/vegan diets. 

Edited by Snook
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I was vegetarian for some years - but do enjoy being an omnivore :)

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tdierikx   

I'm an omnivore... and mindful of waste... I eat leftovers, and always ask for a doggy bag if out and the meal has been too big to eat in one sitting. Think of it as a free lunch... lol!

 

I don't produce much waste for my bins either... it's not uncommon for me to take a month to fill my red bin enough to warrant putting it out for pickup.

 

My job requires me to be mindful of all relevant laws, regulations, and codes of practice relating to the animals in my care... and I am tasked with maintaining best practice at all times for them.

 

My personal pet dogs really don't fancy being taken out for walks, or on leads full stop really... so we have playtime in the yard for their exercise requirements instead. They do like going for car rides, so sometimes for a treat, they get a ride for 10 mins or so, then they race back inside and ensconce themselves on their fave pieces of furniture and dream happy dog dreams... hehe!

 

I'm not a fan of blanket rules/regulations enforcing some namby-pamby idea that all animals of a certain type will benefit from the same regimes/treatment. Apart from the 5 freedoms, most other things should be based on individual animal needs/requirements IMHO.

 

T.

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