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Flick71

Unplanned litter

75 posts in this topic

I'm not sure what you want?  Advice?  you have been given it. Dog was from a byb, they don't care abut on going costs, they obviously don't give a damn they sold said dog in pup. No one can help you with that, it's up to them and your friend. 

You wanna recoup costs, sell the pups as frenchy cross,  they will sell because they are so popular. 

You want papers? You wont get papers. The mother has limited registration. Meaning she should not be bred from. She can have the best pedigree papers in the world but they are on limited. SHOULD NOT HAVE BEEN BRED. This is why everyone here is harping on about desexing puppies of a popular breed. Some people got offended and said people should trust the owner not to breed from their dog. The simple fact that your whole post stems from someone not doing the right thing and breeding from a dog on limited papers shows why people desex young puppies. 

 

 

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moosmum   
On 17/05/2019 at 2:10 PM, juice said:

I disagree , I think the op came here looking for a way to sell the pups for more . All the advice on finding a good rescue has been disregarded. 

The op came here asking help in navigating their legal and ethical responsibilities.

Not  how  to 'ethically' avoid them. 

I'm sure that advise was appreciated, as an option given,  but  the op has no obligation legally or ethically to  accept that option.

 

Judgement on outcomes is very premature. By assuming the worst of possible out comes is a given,  The 'education of the public' thats so badly needed to avoid those is not given, its taken away.

If you take away the rights of people to make decisions on the welfare of their own animals, they will understand less of  how  to do that, or why some things are done as they are.

The problems get worse, not better.

When the idea is promoted that pups be 'ethically' desexed before sale, because people can't be trusted to care for their their own companion animals, thats not addressing the problem. It does however feed  the A.R agenda. Big time.

 

Weather or not a profit is made should be irrelevant. Choosing the best homes for the resulting pups is not, though I doubt the members here will have the chance to assist in that outcome . The chance for education through this forum has been lost. Again. Because ANKC members and supporters don't support  education of the environment thats needed to  support them, as breeders. 

They believe, somehow, that  shrinking that breeders environment to ANKC alone will some how leave them an environment worth having at all.

 

So easy to argue that any environment left is incapable of responding favourably to Dogs as a species, or that keeping them serves any real purpose.

 

 

 

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Flick71   

Juice

sorry but just cos im not a dog breeder doesnt mean im stupid. But trying to understand all the different laws that have come in the last 12mths when there is just tidbits of info online, is like pulling teeth. So I thought I'd ask here.

The person who this dog was bought off of is a registered Frenchie breeder, she also shows her dogs. She is an anka member. You would think that would be enough to trust her to do the right thing. Perhaps she just saw a disabled man and decided to screw him over, which makes it so very much worse. who knows how many other people have been fooled by this same breeder?

I realise that limited papers means the dog cant be bred, it's written in big letters across her paperwork. My friend had no intentions of breeding, he just wanted a companion

Yes I asked for advice because I thought I would get some helpful answers which i have thankyou....i appreciate all who have voiced their advice and opinions.

I am dead against backyard breeding, and if we had known of this pending litter i wouldve asked the vet to have them aborted and her spayed on the spot, but that was not the case. So I'm doing all I can with the situation we have.

To be honest, it really shine a light as to just cos your an anka member, doesnt mean you are professional and play by the rules.

If I'd known he wanted a dog i wouldve done more research, and certainly wouldn't have let him get a Frenchie, let alone one in pup.

I will be getting legal advice about this situation, and will be reporting this breeder to anka and DACO.

This thread can be deleted by the moderators now.

I have the answers i need, thankyou.

Have a lovely day;)

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Flick71   

And as for making a profit, would you rather me put them down cos, this is not about money ffs, I just wanted some advice on what to do.

I sincerely wish id never bothered to ask

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13 minutes ago, Flick71 said:

If I'd known he wanted a dog i wouldve done more research, and certainly wouldn't have let him get a Frenchie, let alone one in pup.

I will be getting legal advice about this situation, and will be reporting this breeder to anka and DACO.

Good for you . 
It is a shame things got tangled here,and I hope all works out . 

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6 minutes ago, Flick71 said:

And as for making a profit, would you rather me put them down cos, this is not about money ffs, I just wanted some advice on what to do.

I sincerely wish id never bothered to ask

Honestly I don't care what you charge, you're going to have to avoid 're-sellers' and the only way is to advertise a decent price tag whether or not you choose to actually charge it for the right families once you approve them. ;-) 
My big concern apart from rehoming carefully is desexing to stop the cycle. We've (rescue) have had small breed pups and I prefer 12wk desex, 2 vacc & then rehome. Still young but not tiny tiny. And you can organise your chosen people to be ready in advance for pickup. Most spend that time preparing, booking puppy classes and shopping :laugh:  

If it helps, feel free to cut & paste our application form in part or whole. 

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Boronia   

A few years back I was looking for another older Westie and saw a 7 year-old registered bitch advertised on DOL for $250, the owner was a member of Dogs Qld, the Westie wasn't spayed and there was very little checking of my circumstances, I bought her so a BYB wouldn't, so don't beat yourself up with the ethics of SOME registered breeders, most are pretty good, your friend, unfortunately, didn't buy from one of them (and nor did I)

My subsequent bestie-buying has been from good breeders who do check

Please do think seriously in surrendering the pups to Yellowgirl's rescue, I think you and your friend will sleep better at night and it'll be a weight off your mind not having to listen to the lies and tall stories from unscrupulous buyers :)

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1 hour ago, Flick71 said:

And as for making a profit, would you rather me put them down cos, this is not about money ffs, I just wanted some advice on what to do.

I sincerely wish id never bothered to ask

But you were referred to an excellent, knowledgable and long term rescue and rehome person and said, nope you were going it alone.  You did ask for help and you were given it, particularly about the dangers of selling undesexed dogs, and again particularly, “fashionable” dogs.   

 

Edited by Loving my Oldies
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asal   

So to be ethical should the breeder's be sending any puppies they are not keeping for themselves surrender them to yellow girl or other rescues in their state instead of advertising them on the home page? 

So they don't risk being hoodwinked either? 

Edited by asal

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asal   

In

what part of ethical breeder,

did you find the word rescuer?

 

read slowly

 

This is a purebred dog forum

 

This purebred dog forum has a breeders page....eg   https://www.dogzonline.com.au/breeds/puppies.asp

 

so considering how sure so many on this thread are that Flick71 who was or is, a registered breeder of another breed is incapable of vetting any potential homes for these puppies.

 

Will the new ethical fashion in future to be that

 these breeders should be sending all these puppies they do not keep and are presently

advertising for sale,   send them instead to you rescue people here to ensure they are "ethically" rehomed?

 

How long before you decide no breeder can be trusted to decide a puppys future home  either? 

 

the destruction of the ankc from within is pretty noticeable in case you haven't caught on yet.. Plenty of others have.  Including Karen Hedberg, or she would not have moved that motion to prevent the mandatory dna parentage verification of all puppies before they can be registered in NSW.

 

her reasons make good reading... and she is totally right.

 

Just home from a wonderful day at Guide dogs for the Blind.

 

the atmosphere was glorious.

over a hundred people all enjoying the day and their puppies they are growing out to become guide dogs in training...

not a single one is ankc registered.

 

no one was worried about who was there that was unethical.

 

NOT ONE DOG there was desexed and they aged from three to ten months, some looked a bit older but didnt ask, know my cousins puppy is ten months....

 

Why arent they desexed?

 

Because they want them to grow normally so they will have the best life and health expectancy possible.   Funny that.

 

My cousin now has their first one they puppy walked permanently, so they are still puppy raising oncoming generation as well.

as she topped her classes and was deemed to be brood bitch material so bred from instead to produce the next generation of potential guide dogs....

 

they look to the future.

 

no dead end kennel here. They actually wait to find out how the puppies mature to decide who will contribute to the next generation.  not decide before 8 weeks and neuter or vasectomy every other one.  it is impossible to be accurate at 8 weeks.

 

 

 

 

Edited by asal

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1 hour ago, asal said:

Will the new ethical fashion in future to be that

 these breeders should be sending all these puppies they do not keep and are presently

advertising for sale,   send them instead to you rescue people here to ensure they are "ethically" rehomed?

No thank you. Plenty of byb to go around. 

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~Anne~   
7 hours ago, Flick71 said:

And as for making a profit, would you rather me put them down cos, this is not about money ffs, I just wanted some advice on what to do.

I sincerely wish id never bothered to ask

Apologies, but I have only skimmed each post so I may be way off course. 

 

You can morally and ethically can sell them as what you believe them to be. Just be clear with potential buyers that you cannot guarantee their breeding - ie ‘we believe them to be French Bulldog, but we cannot guarantee they are”. That part is simple. 

 

The hard part is ensuring they’re going to the best home. Desexing them will help the odds. I understand the hesitation of early desexing. Is it possible to hold on to them until they’re a little older. Maybe until they’re 4 months, and then desexing before they go to their new home? 

 

Regardless of what you do to ensure the home they go to is the best home, no one can ever guarantee this. Even if they are desexed. You can only do your best. Look at all the risks. Speak to others with experience. Trust your gut instinct. 

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asal   

prime example of inbred

 

 as another suggested

 

 Yellow crusted robin

 

 

No photo description available.

 

 

just couldnt help myself....such a cute photo

Edited by asal
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