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Ricky2

Supplements for hips/bones

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Ricky2   

Hiya, my annoying self is back to see if i can get some tips on what to do..I know i should contact a vet and do an x-ray and will do but would just like to hear from other pet owners,but unfortunately where i live the vets are few and either extremely bl*ody expensive or don't further investigate issues and just put them on tablets without making sure what the problem is. Seriously cant trust them as they don't believe in titer testing,benefits of raw etc.. and there have been cases where pets have been  given out-of-date worming tablets/medication etc..

Unfortunately i believe that my 2 year old lab mix is starting to show signs of having hip dysplasia :'( , bunny hops-has done it for a while, a year or so,and started to worry but she seemed  to have improved and no further symptomsand i was glad but now she isn't as active as before and while standing from a down position she puts her weight more on one side then the other, even while sitting it looks like she struggles to do so, which she didn't so do so a month ago.

 

I'd like to know if i can put her on joint/hip supplements approved by many who do so in order for their dogs to grow healthy strong bones and those with arthrits etc without consulting a vet first and see how she does on them? I have also heard that fish oil is good for that but have also read that with the level of mercury etc, it isnt worth it?

 

Cheers.

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3 hours ago, Ricky2 said:

Hiya, my annoying self is back to see if i can get some tips on what to do..I know i should contact a vet and do an x-ray and will do but would just like to hear from other pet owners,but unfortunately where i live the vets are few and either extremely bl*ody expensive or don't further investigate issues and just put them on tablets without making sure what the problem is. Seriously cant trust them as they don't believe in titer testing,benefits of raw etc.. and there have been cases where pets have been  given out-of-date worming tablets/medication etc..

Unfortunately i believe that my 2 year old lab mix is starting to show signs of having hip dysplasia :'( , bunny hops-has done it for a while, a year or so,and started to worry but she seemed  to have improved and no further symptomsand i was glad but now she isn't as active as before and while standing from a down position she puts her weight more on one side then the other, even while sitting it looks like she struggles to do so, which she didn't so do so a month ago.

 

I'd like to know if i can put her on joint/hip supplements approved by many who do so in order for their dogs to grow healthy strong bones and those with arthrits etc without consulting a vet first and see how she does on them? I have also heard that fish oil is good for that but have also read that with the level of mercury etc, it isnt worth it?

 

Cheers.

If she has serious dysplasia at two, joint supplements aren't going to be very effective and may do nothing.  I'd guess your best options are NSAIDs (cartofen, spelling?) or surgery, neither is cheap.

 http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2014/03/legs-glucosamine-study-sows-little-evidence-of-real-benefit/

 

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Ricky2   
2 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

If she has serious dysplasia at two, joint supplements aren't going to be very effective and may do nothing.  I'd guess your best options are NSAIDs (cartofen, spelling?) or surgery, neither is cheap.

 http://skeptvet.com/Blog/2014/03/legs-glucosamine-study-sows-little-evidence-of-real-benefit/

 

@sandgrubber from the sources that i've investigated it isn't serious yet as she is only starting to show some signs of dysplasia,and thanks alot about that link and sorry if i may  sound rude and ungrateful by going against your tips on NSAIDs, i just do a lot of research to know more about what i can do and have found out that 

as a class of compounds they cause the breakdown of articular cartilage…” “…thereby accelerating osteoarthritis etc..

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/think-twice-before-using-nsaids/

what say you?

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From my limited experience of displaysia, if they're showing any symptoms at all it isn't mild. They assume that pain is normal and only show signs when it is at a high level.

 

Might be worth making an appointment at a city vet/specialist and coming into the city for a day (try and get some other stuff done while your dog is having scans etc, like some early Christmas shopping or whatever else you might need to do in the city) so at least you know if it is displaysia or something like OCD and have a starting point for treatment. Then at least you know. I'd cut to the chase and only book a reccomended vet who has extensive experience with these kinds of joint issues. 

 

I don't think supplements will touch the actual cause of the issue though they might help prevent too much arthritic change in the joint (which will also be occurring)

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Snook   
1 hour ago, mackiemad said:

From my limited experience of displaysia, if they're showing any symptoms at all it isn't mild. They assume that pain is normal and only show signs when it is at a high level.

 

Might be worth making an appointment at a city vet/specialist and coming into the city for a day (try and get some other stuff done while your dog is having scans etc, like some early Christmas shopping or whatever else you might need to do in the city) so at least you know if it is displaysia or something like OCD and have a starting point for treatment. Then at least you know. I'd cut to the chase and only book a reccomended vet who has extensive experience with these kinds of joint issues. 

 

I don't think supplements will touch the actual cause of the issue though they might help prevent too much arthritic change in the joint (which will also be occurring)

From what I remember from previous posts, Ricky is in Portugal and not Australia, so his access to help and vet care is very different to what we have here. 

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Rebanne   

I'm giving hemp oil capsules to 2 of my dogs, one for allergy reactions and the other because she dislocated her hip as a pup, she is nearly 2 now. I like them because they are a balance of omega 3, 6 and 9. I am also giving two of mine, the youngest with the iffy hip and the oldest, glucosamine and chondroitin powder in capsules. You buy these over the internet fairly easily. There are also natural pain relief meds you can give. If I recall rightly willow bark is one such item. Goggle would help you. Keep in mind your dog is maturing so what you think might be slowing down because of pain, might just be your dog finally growing up. Though you can see her and we can't.  Needless to say keeping her lean will help.

 
 
 
 
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Dogsfevr   

In the end though the only way  to know is x rays and that will allow you to decide on a future path with correct exercise.

Showing signs at 2 is an issue if it’s affecting your dog already .

Supplements may help but if the dog is in pain that needs to be addressed .

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6 hours ago, Ricky2 said:

@sandgrubber from the sources that i've investigated it isn't serious yet as she is only starting to show some signs of dysplasia,and thanks alot about that link and sorry if i may  sound rude and ungrateful by going against your tips on NSAIDs, i just do a lot of research to know more about what i can do and have found out that 

as a class of compounds they cause the breakdown of articular cartilage…” “…thereby accelerating osteoarthritis etc..

https://www.dogsnaturallymagazine.com/think-twice-before-using-nsaids/

what say you?

I am not a fan of Dogs Naturally. They do not stick to evidence based medicine and have taken some worrisome anti-vax positions.  See, eg:

https://theoutline.com/post/3127/all-natural-pet-care-is-a-scam?zd=2&zi=uhwrynxl

NSAIDs can have side effects, especially those not intended for dogs.  I'd be interested to see evidence for claims of cartelige break down. 

 

As an oldie with arthritis of the hips myself, I can say that Xrays don't tell the whole story.  My doctors are a bit amazed that I still walk a few km a day with little or no pain, as my left hip is quite bad.  They do admit that they've seen it before, though.  Radiometric evidence and clinical signs of pain often don't correspond.  Likewise with dogs it's not uncommon to see a dog with bad hip or elbow scores get to advanced old age with no signs of arthritis. 

One inexpensive way to test for pain is to get your vet to prescribe a pain medication that does not cause drowsiness.  If she becomes more lively and moves more freely when medicated, it's a strong indicator of pain.  Note, best done with advice from a vet.  It may take a week or more for anti-inflammatory meds to get on top of inflammation. 

 

Edited by sandgrubber
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Ricky2   
16 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

I am not a fan of Dogs Naturally. They do not stick to evidence based medicine and have taken some worrisome anti-vax positions.  See, eg:

https://theoutline.com/post/3127/all-natural-pet-care-is-a-scam?zd=2&zi=uhwrynxl

NSAIDs can have side effects, especially those not intended for dogs.  I'd be interested to see evidence for claims of cartelige break down. 

 

As an oldie with arthritis of the hips myself, I can say that Xrays don't tell the whole story.  My doctors are a bit amazed that I still walk a few km a day with little or no pain, as my left hip is quite bad.  They do admit that they've seen it before, though.  Radiometric evidence and clinical signs of pain often don't correspond.  Likewise with dogs it's not uncommon to see a dog with bad hip or elbow scores get to advanced old age with no signs of arthritis. 

One inexpensive way to test for pain is to get your vet to prescribe a pain medication that does not cause drowsiness.  If she becomes more lively and moves more freely when medicated, it's a strong indicator of pain.  Note, best done with advice from a vet.  It may take a week or more for anti-inflammatory meds to get on top of inflammation. 

 

Thanks, i will contact the vet and see what can be done with pain meds. :) It is a shame if she is in pain without showing it as she used to be absolutely nuts but has now settled down,well she is at that age where they do slow down a bit,but still worrisome as she does show some signs of dysplasia :/

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Dogsfevr   
On 01/09/2019 at 6:03 AM, Ricky2 said:

Thanks, i will contact the vet and see what can be done with pain meds. :) It is a shame if she is in pain without showing it as she used to be absolutely nuts but has now settled down,well she is at that age where they do slow down a bit,but still worrisome as she does show some signs of dysplasia :/

At her age she shouldn’t be showing signs of slowing down so to me that is showing signs of pain.

problem you have is by giving pain meds to see if she’s happier doesn’t alert you to what is wrong .

Your dog may not have hip issues but could have muscle  soreness that can still cause significant distress and finding the best product or treatments is based on eliminating the obvious .It may not be the hips but the elbows for example as dogs like humans change there body posture to accommodate.

So looking at the dogs nails as to how there being worn down,any skin roughness on the feet due to altered gait as these can assist as to whether more wear n tear is one sided or both 

Most vets wont just prescribe to see .

I

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Tassie   

Something that hasn't been mentioned so far is that it vital to keep the dog as lean as possible .. on the skinny side of lean, and to try to get some exercises to build up strength in the muscles .. particularly the core and the big leg and shoulder muscles .. to take some of the strain off the joints.    And in spite of what skeptvet might say, a highly respected sports medicine vet in the US who only makes recommendations based on double blind placebo controlled studies, does recommend glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM as a prophylactic as well as a supplement for dogs from a young age.   She also recommends fish oil with high levels of Omega 6 and Omega 3.         .

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16 hours ago, Tassie said:

Something that hasn't been mentioned so far is that it vital to keep the dog as lean as possible .. on the skinny side of lean, and to try to get some exercises to build up strength in the muscles .. particularly the core and the big leg and shoulder muscles .. to take some of the strain off the joints.    And in spite of what skeptvet might say, a highly respected sports medicine vet in the US who only makes recommendations based on double blind placebo controlled studies, does recommend glucosamine/chondroitin/MSM as a prophylactic as well as a supplement for dogs from a young age.   She also recommends fish oil with high levels of Omega 6 and Omega 3.         .

From personal experience, I agree on staying lean and building core and leg muscles. Presuming the problem is in the hip.  Alternative opinions deserve consideration. 

For transparency sake, please name the vet and provide links to the studies. 

Edited by sandgrubber
Clarification
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Bunny-hopping may also signal a luxating patella ... not a hip problem . Supplements will not be of assistance here . 

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