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Amelia

Puppy vaccination vs socialisation

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Amelia   

Hi all, 

 

3 weeks ago my family and I picked up our first Bernese mountain dog and would love some advice on socialisation vs vaccinations. From what I have heard and read, it is extremely important to socialise your puppy before the critical socialisation period ends between 12-14 weeks approx. While we have been doing our best to socialise him where possible and safe (at friends houses, and puppy school in a controlled environment) we would love to be able to get him used to new places and people. My only concern is his vaccinations. He will be receiving his 2nd vaccination tomorrow, and were wondering whether people think it's a good/bad idea to start taking puppies out after this vaccine or whether it's better to wait until after the 3rd vaccine? 

 

Also, the first vaccine our boy received was Protech C3, which I have read sometimes means a 3rd booster vaccine is not required? Does anyone have any experience with this?

 

Any advice or pointers is greatly appreciated. Thank you :)

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A common solution to this dilemma is to attend puppy classes, often run by a vet practice.  Another is to look for vaccinated dogs the pup can meet with in a safe environment. 

Dog culture is full of drama queens.  I would tone down the language on both horns of the dilemma.  There are dogs who suffer developmentally from lack of early socialization, and pups who get parvo from being out and about before the 3rd jab has set in.  But these are the exception, not the rule.  Impossible to accurately quantify, but I'd guess 5% range on both risks. 

 

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I often tell friends with puppies that they can carry the puppy and let them see, smell and her the world while not touching the ground or really meeting other dogs etc - all of that is socialisation. 

 

I think petbarn have a decent puppy school program that isn't a puppy free for all play session? Probably expensive given it is petbarn but I don't know the price so that is a bias.

 

Socialisation versus vaccination is a debate that only you can answer what makes you feel comfortable, but everyone will have an opinion. 

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You need to take your puppy out now. Socialisation is your dog’s behavioural vaccination. Don’t go to places like dog parks, which are risky on many counts not just for disease! But you can carry your puppy around elsewhere, have him sit in the car, on your lap or in a dog pram, to safely watch the world go by. If you happen to be in a parvo rife area you’re just as likely to bring it home on your shoes.

 

https://avsab.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/03/Puppy_Socialization_Position_Statement_Download_-_10-3-14.pdf

 

https://m.facebook.com/VetcentreMorley/videos/vb.191471570891009/1934196756664440/?type=2&theater

 

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qPGd7ElMCJ8

 

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Dogsfevr   

Dont be fooled by thinking your not doing enough ,plenty new puppy owners screw there dogs temperaments up by over doing it & not reading the signs of pushing the boundries too much  .
Puppy pres school is only as good as the class,many are free for alls that teach no life skills except it has the right to play with any dog it sees.Not great for a giant breed

The vaccination question is something you should talk to the breeder with after all they are your help line.
Parvo is always around but some areas have seen an increase at present so you do need to factor the risk level you want to takes.
If you have pet insurance many wont cover Parvo if the dog isn't fully vaccinated  so read what your provider (if you have it requires).
Personally i have never rushed to get my dogs out & never had issues .
During the wait time im working on lead training,we sit out the front watching cars go by & hearing the world & creating a trusting relationship between myself & any new pup so when the time is ready pup trusts me for direction,there lead trained so not dealing with the scary world & the lead ,Have calmly learnt to hear noises & see things they will experience .I use food/toy/praise  reward so during this time work on focus on me because at the end of the day i want my dog to focus on me & not be distracted by everything else & listen when in an environment that being a well behaved dog is important.
My dogs are showdogs so deal with alot more than most pets .
Also as you have a breed that will need regular brushing this is the perfect age to teach good grooming skills .
At home you have the TV ,lawn mower,vacuum & most people have neighbours who are happy to come say hi .
You can achieve a massive amount of confidence building before heading into the world & thinking pup should just suck it up & cope

 

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Tassie   

To some extent it depends where you are in Vic, and whether there are parvo outbreaks in areas you might want to go.    That may also determine whether your vet gives a third booster after the usual 12 week shot.    Check with your breeder as to what is recommended for the breed (some breeds are particularly sensitive to parvo, so you'd want to make sure there is full protection.

 

Socialisation is important … not in the free for all dog party sense - that's not necessary or desirable … but in having the pup encounter in a safe and comfortable and manageable way, many of the sights and sounds and experiences s/he will be expected to cope with throughout life.  I love to drop in at the vet's office when they're not busy .. just to say hi and have cuddles .. and lots of trips in the car just to hang out and watch the world go by are good.  Carrying the pup is fine .. but with a Berner, probably not super practical for long.:laugh:    

 

Babies … especially big babies, need lots of sleep time,, so getting pup used to being alone in a crate and /or xpen is good ..along with the grooming, lead training and so on you can do at home.  Lots of little chase me, and hide and seek games … You do the running away and the hiding .. are great to build lots of value for you and for recalling.

 

 

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Rebanne   

I only ever do 2 puppy vacc's and it's usually protech C3. At 8 weeks and 12 weeks. Then my pup can be in the show ring within 10 - 14 days after the 12 week vacc. I too am a firm believer of getting the pup out and about, usually in the car and parked outside Coles or Bunnings or similar but only every few days. I feel if the pup has a good, sound temperament to start with then, even if they miss out out on walking around, that there usually isn't a problem later on. I call it good bounce back. If the temperament is a bit dodgy then I find socialisation is just a bandaid waiting to be ripped off. I also with Dogsfevr, plenty of stuff to do on home soil.

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Amelia   

Perfect! thanks so much everyone for your pointers. So far he has been coping really well with everyone he has met and is loving puppy school, so hopefully that is a good sign.  Also, I love the idea of carrying him around, but I think his weight (12kg at 12 weeks) might mean its a short walk for both of us haha :laugh:

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3 hours ago, Amelia said:

Perfect! thanks so much everyone for your pointers. So far he has been coping really well with everyone he has met and is loving puppy school, so hopefully that is a good sign.  Also, I love the idea of carrying him around, but I think his weight (12kg at 12 weeks) might mean its a short walk for both of us haha :laugh:


Can you tell who has only ever had toy breeds? :laugh: 

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Dogsfevr   
1 hour ago, emma99 said:

Dog Vaccination-REV 4-01.jpg

This isnt actually true .

Vaccination schedules are based on the actual brands used .
 

Puppy Vaccination Schedules

Vaccines are given at the following ages, based on the brand chosen by your vet:

  • 6 weeks of age: Nobivac®, Duramune®, Protech®
  • 8 weeks of age: Duramune®, Protech®, Canigen®, Canvac®
  • 10 weeks of age: Nobivac®, Duramune®, Protech®
  • 12 weeks of age: Canigen®, Canvac®
  • 16 weeks: All brands

Most puppies have already been given their first vaccine before sale. Make sure you then check with your vet when the next dose is due. In our clinic, it’s at 10 weeks of age, for example.

Here’s the same information in table form.

  Canigen C3/C4 Canvac C4 Duramune C3/C4 Nobivac DHP Protech C3/C4
6 weeks     X X X
8 weeks X X X   X
10 weeks     X X X
12 weeks X X      
16 weeks¹ X X X X X
Protected² 14 weeks 14 weeks 12 weeks 11 weeks 12 weeks
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Socialisation is something that I feel is more of a first, do no harm concept. I keep babies at home until four months, but there is just so much that can be done at home that I don’t believe it’d be worth the risk to attend a class. Only exceptions might be if the very early socialisation has instilled a problem behaviour which proper interaction with suitable dogs would fix. If this is the case, you’d be better served by contacting your breeder to organise an appropriate meetup. Maybe a behaviourist who can organise a meetup with a very trustworthy dog. The everyday classes are, to me, not specific enough to teach a correct response or have the correct size and personalities of dogs available. I’d rather teach something when the dog is a bit older than have to undo something traumatic learned early on. At home you can use Internet, music, tv, children, planes in the sky, fireworks, storms, play equipment, pools, ice, machinery, so many things. And for free.

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