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Snook

Antihistamine recommendations

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Snook   

Justice has a couple of mast cell tumours (he's 14 and I've elected not to operate this time after the dreadful time he had when the last one was removed) that puff up with histamine then go down again. Very occasionally it's caused him to break out in hives, which was successfully treated with Phenergan.

 

Phenergan makes him drowsy though, so I chose Claratyne when moving him to a daily antihistamine to try and control the histamine production. The mast cell sites still puff up with histamine but not as severely and he hasn't broken out in hives on the Claratyne. 

 

Over the past two to three weeks Justice has started showing signs of irritation two or three times a day on his sides, the inside of his back legs, and the underside of his tail (the tumours are on one side over his ribs and in the area where his hind leg meets his waist.) When this happens he scratches or gnaws at the area briefly and then settles down. Nothing has changed with his diet that could be causing it, he's been checked a million times for fleas, and I haven't changed household cleaners or laundry liquid. I'm wondering if it's connected to the histamine production from the tumours. 

 

To rule out an external cause (maybe he's been irritated on the surface of the skin by something when out and about) I was going to bath him tomorrow using a natural dog shampoo that contains calendula and see if that helps. If it doesn't, I think the next step is to try a different histamine to see if it's more effective than the Claratyne. I don't want to give him Phenergan daily because of the drowsiness factor and I was wondering if anyone has a preference for a different histamine for dogs? I found this dosage chart on the website of a local vet with a good reputation but am not sure which one might be best?  https://www.walkervillevet.com.au/blog/use-human-medicines-dog/

 

If neither of these solutions work then I'll book a vet appointment but I'm loathe to put him on steroids etc when it's not a severe irritation, so I'd rather try other options first. I'm open to any suggestions or advice. :)

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Boronia   

Telfast is ok but mustn't be used with  ketoconazole or a macrolide antibiotic:

(ketoconazole is in Malaseb shampoo + some others as well as creams...it's antifungal stuff and Macrolide: One in a class of antibiotics that includes Biaxin (Clarithromycin), Zithromax (Azithromycin), Dificid (Fidoximycin), and Erythromycin. The macrolides inhibit the growth of bacteria and are often prescribed to treat rather common bacterial infections).

 

Here is some good info and dosages for antihistamines for dogs Albert park Vet---Atopic dermatitis: the itchy dog

For dosage I use 1/4 of a 180mg tablet for 8kg of dog

 

Telfast is the cheapest option

 

A little tip...if you need to cut a tablet you will find that a small pair of dog nail clippers do the job really well,  if you only need 1/2 a round tablet you put that tablet on a hard surface like the bench and press down on either side of the indentation with your thumbs, it then breaks evenly, much better than some pill cutters that crush the tablet into smithereens (then you have to put all the pill-chips in little piles to make sure they are even)

 

I have edited this to pop in the dosage anyway

fexofenadine (Telfast®) – this is a second gen. It is available as 60 mg capsules and 120 or 180 mg tablets. The dose is 5–10 mg/kg once or twice daily

 

.

Edited by Boronia
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Snook   

Okay, dog bathed (and me drowned lol) and I'll see how he goes. I found half a box of fexofenadine in my cupboard that I was trying unsuccessfully for hayfever, so if he starts scratching again I'll try that. The ones I have are 180mg and Justice is 23kg so by my calculations he should be on 115mg - 230mg.  @Boronia, do you think it's safe enough to just give him a whole 180mg tablet, or should I be starting at the lowest end of that range and cutting one third of the tablet (60mg) off? 

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Boronia   
2 hours ago, Snook said:

Okay, dog bathed (and me drowned lol) and I'll see how he goes. I found half a box of fexofenadine in my cupboard that I was trying unsuccessfully for hayfever, so if he starts scratching again I'll try that. The ones I have are 180mg and Justice is 23kg so by my calculations he should be on 115mg - 230mg.  @Boronia, do you think it's safe enough to just give him a whole 180mg tablet, or should I be starting at the lowest end of that range and cutting one third of the tablet (60mg) off? 

Justice weighs 50.7063 lbs so using dosage chart ( right down the bottom of this link) here  it says: In dogs, Fexofenadine is dosed at 1 mg per pound to 2.5 mg per pound of body weight (2 to 5 mg/kg) every 12 to 24 hours so if your boy is 23kg that would indicate that he should have 46mg to 115mg so maybe it'd be best to just give him 1/2 tablet (which will be 90mg)

 

You could phone reception at your vet and ask them to run it by the vet, pointing out that you didn't want to risk going out at this time, most vets will advise regarding antihistamines as there is a lot of leeway.

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Snook   
6 minutes ago, Boronia said:

Justice weighs 50.7063 lbs so using dosage chart ( right down the bottom of this link) here  it says: In dogs, Fexofenadine is dosed at 1 mg per pound to 2.5 mg per pound of body weight (2 to 5 mg/kg) every 12 to 24 hours so if your boy is 23kg that would indicate that he should have 46mg to 115mg so maybe it'd be best to just give him 1/2 tablet (which will be 90mg)

 

You could phone reception at your vet and ask them to run it by the vet, pointing out that you didn't want to risk going out at this time, most vets will advise regarding antihistamines as there is a lot of leeway.

I was going by what you said here when I worked it out:

 

I have edited this to pop in the dosage anyway



fexofenadine (Telfast®) – this is a second gen. It is available as 60 mg capsules and 120 or 180 mg tablets. The dose is 5–10 mg/kg once or twice daily

 

 

I can try calling the vet clinic but I don't think they'd help me without Justice having ever seen them. After the debacle with his regular vet clinic from when he had bone shards lodged in him, I wrote a complaint and had all of his files transferred to a different clinic but haven't had any need to make an appointment yet. 

 

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Boronia   
2 hours ago, Snook said:

I was going by what you said here when I worked it out:

 

 

 

 

I can try calling the vet clinic but I don't think they'd help me without Justice having ever seen them. After the debacle with his regular vet clinic from when he had bone shards lodged in him, I wrote a complaint and had all of his files transferred to a different clinic but haven't had any need to make an appointment yet. 

 

I saw that other dosage in the last link I posted Snook, it's enough to hurt your head that there are two different amounts depending on whose page it is.

I wonder if it's worth contacting these on-line vets here or, perhaps messaging @Elise+Hudson who is a vet working at a clinic at Springwood (she may have moved)

I would give him 2/3 tablet and see how it goes. (I gave 8kg Maxi 1/4 tablet)

and...

I wouldn't contact your mean vets AT ALL!

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Snook   
31 minutes ago, Boronia said:

I saw that other dosage in the last link I posted Snook, it's enough to hurt your head that there are two different amounts depending on whose page it is.

I wonder if it's worth contacting these on-line vets here or, perhaps messaging @Elise+Hudson who is a vet working at a clinic at Springwood (she may have moved)

I would give him 2/3 tablet and see how it goes. (I gave 8kg Maxi 1/4 tablet)

and...

I wouldn't contact your mean vets AT ALL!

I wonder if there's something different in terms of ingredients in different countries? The Walkerville Vet guide that I linked is 5-10mg per kg top but the ones using lb instead of kg are much lower. I just tried the link to the online vet and after I answered a heap of questions and gave Justice's history, it sent me to a page to pay to be connected to a vet so I closed it. I might try asking on my FB page before I harass Elise+Hudson. Some of my dog friends know vets, as I found out when Justice was sick. Yeah, I wouldn't call the old vet after what happened but I don't want to start off our relationship with the new vet by asking for free advice over the phone either. Thank you so much for your help. I really do appreciate it. I'll post an update on dosage advice once I've gotten it from a vet, I case it's helpful to anyone else. :)

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Diva   

I gave my 36 kg boy a Telfast 180 when he was stung by something in the garden and his face became swollen.

We ended up at the vet because he started to vomit and I wasn’t sure if it had stayed down. 

The vet told me I had given him a low dose and I could have quite safely have given him two, which would be 10 mg per kilo.

 

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Snook   
14 hours ago, Diva said:

I gave my 36 kg boy a Telfast 180 when he was stung by something in the garden and his face became swollen.

We ended up at the vet because he started to vomit and I wasn’t sure if it had stayed down. 

The vet told me I had given him a low dose and I could have quite safely have given him two, which would be 10 mg per kilo.

 

Thank you so much for that. I've got a friend who's going to ask her vet for me, as she has a great relationship with her, so I gave Justice Claratyne as normal this morning. I'll watch him today to see if he starts scratching or gnawing again and if he does, shall try the Telfast from tomorrow. 

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Dogsfevr   

We prefer liquid polarmine.

Also look at the liquid phenergan for kids ,the drowse factor a lot less .

 

 

Could it be more of a nerve type /tingling pain killers 

Is he on pain killers 

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Snook   
7 minutes ago, Dogsfevr said:

We prefer liquid polarmine.

Also look at the liquid phenergan for kids ,the drowse factor a lot less .

 

 

Could it be more of a nerve type /tingling pain killers 

Is he on pain killers 

Thanks for the suggestions. 

 

He's on gabapentin twice a day as part of his anxiety meds but he's been on it for a few years without issues. 

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Boronia   

This info came up when I was looking at Apoquel so I reckon you may be interested @Snook perhaps have a search in Australian companies though I have bought cranberry, slippery elm and charcoal capsules from this company before and they are pretty good and well priced and their postage was reasonable

https://au.pipingrock.com/pet-products/pet-allergy-for-dogs-cats-100-14451

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Snook   
3 hours ago, Tassie said:

@Snook  you could try contacting @Jumabaar  - she doesn't come here often, but she might be able to help with some ideas.

Thank you so much for the suggestion. :)

 

 

3 hours ago, Boronia said:

This info came up when I was looking at Apoquel so I reckon you may be interested @Snook perhaps have a search in Australian companies though I have bought cranberry, slippery elm and charcoal capsules from this company before and they are pretty good and well priced and their postage was reasonable

https://au.pipingrock.com/pet-products/pet-allergy-for-dogs-cats-100-14451

Thank you. That looks interesting. I'd want to double check with a vet that all of the ingredients are okay with Justice's regular medications but it could certainly be an option for him. 

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