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sandgrubber

The Cost of Puppies

50 posts in this topic

asal   

Joe public aren't creating the need for puppy farms, no ankc puppies to be found is doing that.

People deciding they are not welcome is doing that, hence the growth in alternative registers.

99 percent of the population want a pet, they don't want to show or breed anyway, so to so actively discourage the minority who would is shooting ankc in the foot.

 

Been very successful too, its all laid out in each year's statistics. 

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Inge   

Not in Australia, but i paid 1000 euro for a well bred rare breed. He went on to become a multi ch and the only one ever of his breed to get placings in groups in Netherlands and Germany.. So cheap does not mean bad quality;) Think alot also depends on what the costs are in your country for certain things. In Scandinavian countries the costs for the vet are alot higher then what they would be where i live, and i often see pups there also cost alooot more..and stud fees in some breeds are also alot higher

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Dogsfevr   
11 hours ago, asal said:

The trouble is, people who "don't have litters yearly"

And only "breed when we want to for ourselves "

Contribute little to nothing to the continuation of the ANKC into the future, in income, genetics or new members joining.

 

The apparent assumption from your words that any who don't do as you are.

"Breed the guts out"

"View their girls as money" "move them on for the next batch"

Is pretty nasty , no matter what angle. 

 

You have the right to do whatever you want. 

 

But to insinuate any who are different to your parameter, are less ethical or responsible than your decision for yourself is pretty unethical and denial of their rights to make their own decisions. 

 

Particularly the people who actually breed regularly and don't desex every puppy AND sell on main register are the only way the ANKC's can survive, the gene pool cease shrinking along with memberships growing in line with the population of Australia 

 

So wrap yourself in your cloak of piousness, certainly.

But you and your group will contribute little or nothing to the breed's or future of the ANKC.

 

The ANKC is to record pedigrees AND encourage new members,  Sadly been precious little of either each proceeding years since the us and them mentality arrived in the membership.

No shock that you have replied Asal ,it  seems you cant read my post for what it is but again no surprise nor is your rant reply .
Such an encouraging person to join the dog world .

I just love your presumption of me being  "one of those "people who will ruin the future of ANKC .
Well i can safely reassure you i am one of those few in the Dog World that has gone above & beyond in ensuring the ANKC future is there for all & by all that means the juniors of the dog world,the small fish who just want to have some fun with there one and only dog to the new exhibitors needing grooming ,handling help to those wanting to breed & to those looking at dog sports that fit the humans ability .
You may feel ANKC is all about dog breeding in our household we now the ANKC is all about the Village & that Village brings things in varying forms from breeding to competing ,stewarding,club committee to set up helpers .That Village is what keeps the whole dog world going & that includes those with there sterilized pet competing in showing & dog sports & encouraging there village to come join them .

So i have no issues if you dislike me because  i have a wonderful village in my dog world community .
I have no issues if you think some of the points i mentioned makes me "unethical"  or in "denial " ,( i gather a breeder registering 14 litters in 5 months is more ethical  in your books).

I will never feel a lesser member of ANKC because i dont breed every year nor own enough bitches to even do so but i will always be a proud ANKC member for promoting Purebreeds in the community & encouraging people to join & bring to the dog world no knowledge & wanting to learn to bringing great knowledge ready to teach & share .

 

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asal   

I did not say a fraction of what you are going on about.

 

you go jump to "registering 14 litters in 5 months"

 

gee , be like you, just only for yourself........... or"registering 14 litters in 5 months"?  

 

just to get a little perspective on what you said.

 

 

 

 

Nothing in between eh?

Exaggeration in all things that dont hug your idea of ethics.

 

Although at least then there will be puppies available...   

 

So you  cannot even conceive others may not do all the dreadful crap you imagine and just said. 

 

That's called massive over reaction, but then anyone else has already been accused in your previous post which I quoted your own words...

 

 

Never said any of the rubbish you just  wrote in your accusation.  "I just love your presumption of me being  "one of those "people who will ruin the future of ANKC ."

 

shrinking membership, shrinking gene pool is not going to "ruin the future of the ANKC"

Just shrinks a little each year until?

 

You dont know me at all either,  petal.

unlike you, I queried your very words. 

I  not did not exaggerate them to the ridiculous as you have flung, so in a way, you have helped me understand you  better.

 

I have no reason to dislike you, you have your opinion, you do your own thing.

 

So many who disagree, take their bag and leave.

That's who are making up the numbers in the alternative registries and lost to the ankc.

 

 

Just dont expect me to copy, I have no need to please you.

 

Its unfortunate there is Some members who believe there is no room for anyone who doesn't agree with their version or foolish enough to disagree or walk to a different drum.  They make a lot of noise, but those who disagree tend to stay silent. I know I was one of them, been silent except to my friends in private from 1978 to 2014 I think?  

finally got the courage to speak up.  

When I got my first dog in 1978, I had to decide, did I want to buy a show bitch or one that can self whelp.

 

The fodder for Pedigree Dogs Exposed was already there in the show breeders pens then.

I decided my responsibility was continue the self whelping lines, this is a big country, if some one bought a puppy from me and lived miles from the nearest vet, they would lose their precious girl.

 

at only ten I had watched a neighbour struggle with saving their non whelping line bitch, then realise without the vet removing them will lose mum and all the pups.  Then struggle to save her darling puppies because although she was from all champion show ring lines, maternal instinct wasn't one of the selection criteria in that bitches ancestors either.

 

Another always had to bottle feed her puppies from day 3,  because the bitches of her line would dry up their milk from day 3 to 6... but they were all Champions, self whelping nor maternal instincts dont win challenges so no reason to select for them. 

 

Don't forget the breeder who refused to even attempt to eliminate hernias from her lines for the same reason.  But produces wonderful Champions and Best in Group winners and In Show Winners, as she said "hernias are not listed as a disqualifying fault".

 

Surprisingly I discovered I could still win occasionally in the ring, even sometimes a Challenge certificate............which was nice. but no best in breeds for my middle of the road conformation bub.  Although friends ran some for me to Champion, done solely because , if you dont show you will be targeted as a "puppy farmer" even as early as the 1980's.  I like hernia free, self whelping, maternal minded quality as equal in importance, always will.

 

nave a nice day.

 

Just realised, it is you who felt the need to make the snide remark to the person who asked for advice as to who to contact re an ankc management matter.

 

I doubt they had a nice day after reading what you felt the need to insinuate. 

Edited by asal

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asal   
20 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

No shock that you have replied Asal ,it  seems you cant read my post for what it is but again no surprise nor is your rant reply .
Such an encouraging person to join the dog world .

I just love your presumption of me being  "one of those "people who will ruin the future of ANKC .
Well i can safely reassure you i am one of those few in the Dog World that has gone above & beyond in ensuring the ANKC future is there for all & by all that means the juniors of the dog world,the small fish who just want to have some fun with there one and only dog to the new exhibitors needing grooming ,handling help to those wanting to breed & to those looking at dog sports that fit the humans ability .
You may feel ANKC is all about dog breeding in our household we now the ANKC is all about the Village & that Village brings things in varying forms from breeding to competing ,stewarding,club committee to set up helpers .That Village is what keeps the whole dog world going & that includes those with there sterilized pet competing in showing & dog sports & encouraging there village to come join them .

So i have no issues if you dislike me because  i have a wonderful village in my dog world community .
I have no issues if you think some of the points i mentioned makes me "unethical"  or in "denial " ,( i gather a breeder registering 14 litters in 5 months is more ethical  in your books).

I will never feel a lesser member of ANKC because i dont breed every year nor own enough bitches to even do so but i will always be a proud ANKC member for promoting Purebreeds in the community & encouraging people to join & bring to the dog world no knowledge & wanting to learn to bringing great knowledge ready to teach & share .

 

realised, nobody can "ruin" the ANKC.

 

if it ceases to be a viable register for purebred dogs it will simply continue being a social club for dog lovers.

 

The Royal NSW Canine Council, long ago realised the demographics were changing and decided its public name will be Dogs NSW to appeal to all dog lovers.   Not just purebred breeders.

 

That is what Dogzonline will become too.

 

Every single one of us have one thing in common, the love for our dogs.

 

Its a shame some feel the need to see bad in fellow members and drive them away.

 

Wonder if we will hear from ZDM again after your need to add your snide remark?

 

That was only their second post here.  Such a sweet welcome from you.

 

did a check, ZDM hasn't been back since June 26.

 

 

Edited by asal

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asal   

as for your comment, "registering 14 litters in 5 months"

 

 

just to get a little perspective on what you said.

 

"Lets do the Math Again ! In 2016 – 6,525 ANKC Ltd Breeders produced 14,091 Litters

3,583 Breeders (55%) 0nly had 1 Litter

1,406 Breeders (21%) had 2 Litters

659 Breeders (10%) had 3 Litters

338 Breeders (5%) had 4 Litters

539 Breeders (8%) had 5 to 10 Litters

Only 86 Breeders ( 1.3%) had more than 10 Litters"

 

quote is from this ANKC STATS for 2016

 

http://ankc.org.au/media/6598/a-forensic-view-of-puppy-breeding-in-australiav4.pdf

 

 

Edited by asal

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Jash   
On 6/2/2020 at 11:12 AM, sandgrubber said:

It's more complicated than that.  There are some long time breeders who could be accused of being puppy farmers if you look at the numbers of puppies they sell, but who know their bloodlines like the palms of their hands... who import to improve bloodlines and who do loads of health tests.  On the other hand, there are people who have only the occasional litter who judge bloodlines by the number of titles in the pedigree and have only a rudimentary understanding of genetics. Given the increasing restrictions on breeding and the 2 dog rules, I think Ozzies can expect to see more for profit dog breeding.  Not all of it bad. 

Sandgrubber, what is the 2 dog rule? I haven't heard of this? Thanks heaps :)

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17 hours ago, Jash said:

Sandgrubber, what is the 2 dog rule? I haven't heard of this? Thanks heaps :)

In many parts of Oz (including all of wa) permission from council is needed to keep > 2 dogs in a residential area.  Some councils rarely grant 3 dog permits. 

Edited by sandgrubber

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