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NikkiandKane

Separation anxiety

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Over these last weeks since Kane’s surgery, he has never been left alone, hubby and I have taken turns watching him like a hawk, monitoring for any scratching but also for him eating anything he shouldn’t. 
it means that he now has developed some separation anxiety. 
since he eats anything he can destroy, if we go out he is left in his crate with no bedding and some indestructible toys. I try to just leave him for short times to work on it but his behavior is getting worse. Last night we left him for 3 hours to go to our sons housewarming, I left him with a kong stuffed with Greek yoghurt and treats and a carrot. He isn’t too distressed to eat the kong but after he finished he mustve gotten very distressed because he had urinated in the crate and it was everywhere, he had even somehow bent a bar in the crate!!!!! Our other dog was in a crate right next to him.

 

he sleeps in our room in a smaller crate which he only just fits in now, we had planned to move him out to the laundry with Scout much sooner but now I know it is going to be hard.

 

suggestions and advice are very welcome. I work from home so am always here. I can put him in the crate in the laundry regularly for short times, I have the time to do whatever but I cannot just put him outside........

 

in good news, his health has come a long way and for the moment I feel confident he can’t harm himself if he does get distressed while in the crate.

Edited by NikkiandKane
spelling: he didnt eat a king and he didnt have superstition anxiety

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Dogsfevr   

I suggest seeing a specialist ,his desire to eat things may be associated behaviour.
 

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Snook   

I really hate saying this when I know that you've spent a small fortune on Kane in the short time you've had him, but I'd be seeking the help of a vet behaviourist on this one. He's obviously distressed to a fairly extreme level to be urinating in his crate and trying to break out of it. As @Dogsfevr said, it's possible that eating rocks, sticks, beds etc is connected to this too. If Kane has an anxiety disorder, rather than the normal level of separation anxiety that you might expect under the circumstances, it will help you both immensely to get on to it quickly with professional help. If you let us know roughly where you're located, we can give you details for any vet behaviourists near you. 

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I’ve been thinking anxiety disorder too with the PICA and now this, but didn’t want to hit you over the head with too much ‘see a specialist’ comments.
 

Snook and I both have dogs with anxiety disorders. It really is worthwhile getting a proper diagnosis and treatment plan from a behaviour vet (veterinary behaviourist) sooner rather than later. And while it can be costly, I think it’s going to save you a lot of money in the long run with foreign body surgeries, other injuries, and destroyed property.

 

I’m sorry ‘cause I know you probably don’t want to hear this. :heart: 

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16 hours ago, Papillon Kisses said:

 

Thanks for sharing that, I might be a bit dim.... I read the whole thing and really didn’t understand how Kane fits in to any of the “clusters” or how to help him.... I need a version for “dummies”

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oh gosh, I wrote a whole big long reply and it has disappeared!

The gist of it was, we are broke....self employed on the Gold Coast during this covid situation, I literally have no disposable income after spending our savings on Kanes recent surgery and all the other stuff I have had to buy for him!! 

So no, I dont want to think about an anxiety disorder. I am going to have to deal with this situation the best I can without having an anxiety disorder myself!! we are seeing a private trainer for a few weeks. I do have another vet appointment with Kanes regular vet on Wednesday where I will ask for some advice but I cannot afford another vet bill right now.

If I could just put Kane outside with Scout he would be happy but I cant risk it because if he gets another blockage, we cant afford the surgery and the only option doesnt bare thinking.

He walks across rocks everyday to get to his toileting area and he hasnt tried to eat any rocks since his surgery. I am inclined to think he was eating rocks and dirt because he had something lacking from his diet (he was on chicken and rice only for a fair while with his loose stools and skin issues) and the chewing up of beds .....he is a staffy! our older girl did it a lot in her younger days and still would if she was left alone with certain tempting beds.

I just need to take a step back and try to relax and deal with it bit by bit trying to be calm and strong. I will continue to do research but I am afraid that at the moment I cant afford anything more :(

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Scratch   

Sorry I’m just popping in here based on the last few posts and have not read Kane’s back story.......but was wondering if Kane could/would wear a well fitted basket muzzle for a while so he could be safely outdoors with Scout?  You’d probably need to do some conditioning regarding accepting the muzzle. And obviously not a solution for times when you are not home. Just thought of it as an option for him to be able to hang outside with his buddy. 

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58 minutes ago, Scratch said:

Sorry I’m just popping in here based on the last few posts and have not read Kane’s back story.......but was wondering if Kane could/would wear a well fitted basket muzzle for a while so he could be safely outdoors with Scout?  You’d probably need to do some conditioning regarding accepting the muzzle. And obviously not a solution for times when you are not home. Just thought of it as an option for him to be able to hang outside with his buddy. 

Thanks Scratch, we are working on that at the moment, I purchased a basket muzzle but it is a little big on him, so while he grows (fast) I am working on getting him used to putting his snout in it calmly for a reward.

We do have a section of yard which is newly turfed and pretty much safe for him, I am thinking of trialing him in the part of the yard with scout for short periods while I spy out of the window :laugh:. In fact, I think I will do that for 15 minutes tomorrow and gauge his reaction, if it is a good reaction, I will repeat throughout the day on and off and build up so that he can be out there if I need to go shopping etc.

 I really think my paranoia is adding to the problem. I think it is justified given our experience so far, but it isn't helping when I let myself get really stressed about it all.

If you wanted to read through a long post thread, look at my 'bowel obstruction' post, I think it goes back to highlight most of our issues to date.

I should also add, I am sorry If I sounded snappy in my earlier post. I really do appreciate everyones suggestions and suuport 

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Snook   

You didn't sound snappy at all. You do sound exhausted and stressed though, which is more than understandable after everything you've had to deal with in such a short amount of time. I really feel for you. Hopefully Kane's vet can give you some good advice on Wednesday. 

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Dogsfevr   

As your seeking out a trainer be sure to ask many questions before handing your money over ,to be honest some cost more for there own first evaluation than a first vet behaviourist consult  & you get no where .
A grooming client of ours paid $380 first consult evaluation  to be told the biggest load of crap out.
I actually have handled the dog in the ring so aware off where it needed help & where the owner had taken a wrong turn in the training .
With follow up appointments its going to cost her near $500 .
So i do say in all seriousness pick the trainer wisely,ask about there experience with possible sep anxiety and if they have knowledge on PICA .
If it is PICA and its behavioral then managing it correctly is a must .
There are alot of crappy trainers out there ,there are some good ones but finding the one that is the right for for your dog even harder & be prepared there answer may be see a vet behaviorist

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23 minutes ago, Dogsfevr said:

As your seeking out a trainer be sure to ask many questions before handing your money over ,to be honest some cost more for there own first evaluation than a first vet behaviourist consult  & you get no where .
A grooming client of ours paid $380 first consult evaluation  to be told the biggest load of crap out.
I actually have handled the dog in the ring so aware off where it needed help & where the owner had taken a wrong turn in the training .
With follow up appointments its going to cost her near $500 .
So i do say in all seriousness pick the trainer wisely,ask about there experience with possible sep anxiety and if they have knowledge on PICA .
If it is PICA and its behavioral then managing it correctly is a must .
There are alot of crappy trainers out there ,there are some good ones but finding the one that is the right for for your dog even harder & be prepared there answer may be see a vet behaviorist

We have already started our obedience lessons with a private trainer. I actually found the recommendation on here. At this stage I have only paid $180 for 3 one hour sessions. 
I am not sure she is going to tick all the boxes but we are working on a few things to assist with our main issues.... I will keep

you posted. 

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This morning I put Kane in his crate with a Kong while I dropped my daughter to school. It’s very close so I was gone for around 10 minutes. I came home to him quietly munching on his Kong.

Waited for him to finish while doing some work on the computer  and then took him out to the toilet. So it appears he is ok with short intervals!

i also just put him out in our turfed area with scout and came inside to spy through the window. He bugged scout a fair bit, licking in her mouth (for some reason he does this obsessively). He sniffed around and played with Scout and didn’t seem at all concerned about me leaving him. I left him for around 20 minutes and went and got him. I will continue to do this sporadically through the day and slowly increase the time. It would be great if I could confidently leave him outside while I do groceries etc. 

I was even brave enough to let him sniff around the rocks in our carport whilst watching closely. He didn’t try to eat any.

i feel like he is always hungry. His weight is good, maybe a bit lean but he is growing so much, he is always sniffing around for food, like a little scavenger, so that is something I would like to address. 
overall I am happy with how we are going, I may need to employ a baby sitter if we plan to go out for very long until we progress some more.

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10 minutes ago, NikkiandKane said:

He bugged scout a fair bit, licking in her mouth (for some reason he does this obsessively).

...we have 8 mth olds who do this to the adults in the pack ... the adults tell them off when it gets too much ...but it is very much an appeasing "I am friendly, submissive, little'  gesture .

She is obviously being a very patient girl :):love: 

What a great update! You've done really well..all of you!! Keep up these baby steps , and    BREATHE        :)    :hug: 

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7 hours ago, persephone said:

...we have 8 mth olds who do this to the adults in the pack ... the adults tell them off when it gets too much ...but it is very much an appeasing "I am friendly, submissive, little'  gesture .

Ah good to know, I thought he wanted to be a dentist :laugh:  because he gets right in there. Scout does sometimes tell him off for it. She’s very tolerant though.

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On 09/06/2020 at 9:55 AM, persephone said:

...we have 8 mth olds who do this to the adults in the pack ... the adults tell them off when it gets too much ...but it is very much an appeasing "I am friendly, submissive, little'  gesture .

Ah good to know, I thought he wanted to be a dentist :laugh:  because he gets right in there. Scout does sometimes tell him off for it. She’s very tolerant though.

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Yay, big step forward today. I took my daughter to school while leaving Kane with his Kong in the small crate in our study (it’s where we spend much of our time, so he’s comfortable here). I came home after around 10 minutes and he glanced up at me from his Kong and went back to happily munching on it. 
the secret was wedging a whole carrot in the end!

 

EB8C57F7-E452-4494-9DF3-FFA4C393D0E7.jpeg

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Rebanne   

I know I am coming to this late but the weeing in the crate could have been as something as simple as "I'm still young and forgot my training" and the bent bar, again " I'm still young, wonder if I can chew this just because I can!" The fact that Kane does settle with a kong is very encouraging. Also, as he has spent a lot of time in a crate he might be a bit sick of it all. Have you tried Crate Games by Susan Garrett. I think you are doing a great job.

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1 hour ago, Rebanne said:

Have you tried Crate Games by Susan Garrett. I think you are doing a great job.

I haven’t but thanks for the tip. I will look into it :) and thank you.

training yesterday was a bit discouraging. I don’t think we found the trainer for us, so that is nice to hear :kissbetter:

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1 hour ago, Rebanne said:

as he has spent a lot of time in a crate he might be a bit sick of it all.

yes, poor lad  :)

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