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Jaison420

Advice beeded

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Have two German Shepard half breed dogs. I rescued my dog buddy about 6 years ago. He is 7 now approx. He is mine.

 

And my now partner rescued one, about 3 years ago. It's her dog. She has spent around 4000 dollars on him, medicine and a life saving surgery removing his splein or something alone these lines and is constantly itchy with skin condition and just has always had a hard time with his health which is really sad. 

 

But we have had a child and we rent a house with a yard that allowed pets. Which limits us but we found a place and it's all good. 

 

They were okay for a while they both even slept together in the bedroom with us for 6 months when i first moved here with my dog. 

 

But the occasional growl I would hear underneath the bed or one or 2 fights over the dog biccys 

 

Out of no where, with no explanation, they both started fighting more,  can be random and unexpected, my partner has been bitten twice on the hand because she is a goose and for whatever reason in her brain puts her hand in between near their faces. 

 

Last time it was bad I walked outside to show my partner my new fridge and they went at it. We were swinging and pulling them by their back legs.for what felt like 3 mins and it was exaushting, screaming and punching them it was just a disgusting mess and my dog got a really deep puncture which should of been taken to the vet but I was unemployed at the time and didn't have money. 

 

Anyways, fast forward 8 months probably and we have had one inside and one outside all of this time. Constantly rotating them. 

 

I don't want vet bills and I don't want the stress or us injured. 

 

I tried a couple of fences I spent around 500 dollars but it's just with the lay of the back yard it's just no way to build a fence and we are in a rental and it's just gonna happen. It's too hot and there is not much concrete undercover for them. I can't divide it up.  Only option is to put the dogs on runs. So they can both reach under cover but not.get to.each other. 

 

We also just had a baby girl who is 4 months and are both working again I work full time 45 hours a week and she does about 20.hours a week. 

 

I have no energy to stuff around like this let alone excersize these dogs. 

 

It's just such a drain and we have spoke about it for a long time that we may need to get rid of one of the boys. They are both male.

 

Her dog is desexed and mine is not. My dog (buddy) gets along fine with female dogs, And smaller male dogs such as jack russels, he will let them jump all over him and put their heads in his mouth and he runs laps with them and they have a great time. Sadly these past 2 years have been depressing for him as my partners dog doesn't play and my dog runs laps at the fence with the neighbours dogs as her dog doesn't play as much. 

 

We were thinking desexing my dog might stop the drama so me might give it a go. 

 

But I don't think they will ever play and be happy.so even if it stops the fights my boy buddy will never get to have a play ful friend again and will soon grow old and die without having a life and a friend who can play with him. 

 

Her dog wilba is a good dog but only when I wrestle him on the bed  or play fetch in back yard and take him.for runs at the oval does he have fun. 

 

I have been letter wilba, her dog, outside with my dog for the last 2 week's with a muzzle on for like 4 hours a day to excersize each other but today my partner in the morning decided to let him out with a muzzle on and a fight broke out while she was home alone and it's just at that point where we both don't know what to do like should we give one away, which one and why, because obviously she is connected to her dog and I'm connected to mine. 

 

Hers has a skin condition but she is to lazy to wash him and I end up having to wash her dog so it's like she can't handle her dog. If it was my dog who had the condition I would wash him but it's not my.dog it's.hers. 

 

It's just hard to figure out who's dog is going and if that should be what we do. 

 

I have grown to love her dog so for me it's really hard either way. 

 

Having to think for the rest of my life feel like I let the dog down. 

 

Anyways sorry about the extended message I just got home from.work and have stuff to do but I am really stressed and don't know what to do. 

 

We are not paying for a dog coach or behaviour person we just don't have the money. And if i can't do it myself i don't wanna do it. 

 

Cheers for any advice I have a feeling tough choices are coming. 

 

If we did get rid of say her dog. I feel like we would rescue a small female breed and my dog would be over the moon and they would play all of the time. 

 

But if we got rid of my dog. Which I don't think I would do but theoretically, her dog would be here and if we got another dog that it didn't fight with I don't really see them playing or using the yard. 

 

Her dog has allergy to the soil or the grass and barely leaves the concrete... 

 

He will play fetch but won't follow my dog onto the lawn even when my dog is begging him to play. 

 

Anyways :( thanks guys so sorry about my bad grammer I'm lazy and texting is hard

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Rebanne   

Ok. My thoughts are. You are both busy people. Maybe you should only have one dog. It seems you love them both regardless of who technically owns which dog. 

There are a couple of ways to look at this. Rehome the older dog without the health problem or put to sleep the one with the health problems. I consider unfair to new owners to pass on serious health problems.

Forget about who plays with whom or how. That is not your problem. Your problem is having two dogs who do not get on. You have to also consider your baby daughter and what could happen if she was to get in the middle of them when they started a fight. Not saying either dog would attack her but she'll be toddling around in 12 months and may slip outside when you are not looking. It happens.

You are in a hard place but hard decisions need to be made and quickly. For everyone's sake, including the dogs.

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I agree with Rebanne, one of the dogs needs to be rehomed asap   Always get dogs desexed - you cannot have the same sex with one desexed and the other not - this is usually a recipe for disaster - fights or worse.  As a rescuer, for that reason, i will not rehome any dog with undesexed dogs of either sex, nor will i allow someone with undesexed dogs to foster for me, as desperately hard as it is to find foster carers. I simply would not risk it.

 

You also should not rehome the dog with health issues yourself BUT I would recommend you contact a reputable rescue in your area and explain the situation.  The skin issue is not something you've dealt with for whatever reason but if you can't deal with it, you shouldn't keep the dog.  It may not be too hard to fix but you'll never know because it's not something that is in your ability to deal with by the sounds of it.  

 

Both dogs are most likely incredibly stressed by the situation.  You and your partner are stressed.  The baby will be toddling and be in danger.  You cannot live like this and nor can the dogs.  Bite that bullet and remove one dog from the situation urgently.

 

 

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ish   

Dog trainers do cost a lot of money, but my advice would be to save up and get one out for the following reasons:

1. You will get a fair unbiased assessment of both dogs as individuals, and why they are fighting. If nothing more, this may lessen any guilt you feel around rehoming or euthanising one. 
2. The trainer may be able to arm YOU with the right advice and training to make things better. They can’t cast a spell on the dogs to make them behave better but they can possibly instruct you on managing them in another way. They are expensive because they have the training, knowledge and skills to help both dogs and their owners. No guarantees it’s possible to fix the situation but personally I would want to explore every option before making any hard decisions. 
 

A terribly hard situation for you, I hope things are better for you soon

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corrie   

A really hard situation to be in and I feel for you, your wife and the dogs. 

 

Given your time and energy constraints I really wouldn’t consider adding a female dog if you rehome one of your male dogs. 
 

If you have one manageable dog which is an integrated part of your family then I think you would have a happier dog, less stress on you and it is a far better prospect than two dogs that end up being relegated to the back yard and not given time outside the confines of your property. 
 

You know your situation better than anyone so as long as you are really honest with yourself and realistic about what genuinely is manageable for you and your family then you are more likely to set yourself up for the best outcome for everyone.

Edited by corrie
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JulesP   

If you can afford it I think a vet trip with your partner's dog might be good. He might be declining in health which might be why they are fighting more. If he is in pain he is likely to be more cranky. 

 

 

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That sounds like a very difficult, and very stressful situation for everyone, humans and dogs, and I congratulate you on being honest about your situation and asking for advise. 

For me the ONLY consideration you have is you have a small child who will be toddling around in a very short time.  The current situation is a serious accident just waiting to happen.

 

You need to remove one of the dogs as soon as possible.  It's a tough situation to make a decision, but I also think you need to stop thinking about the dogs as "mine" and "hers" - you are a family and you both own both dogs.  That might make it a bit easier to look at rationally.

 

Then you need to look at which dog is most suitable to be rehomed.  It also sounds really cruel, but it may be best for the older unhealthier dog that it be put to sleep.  It sounds like neither you or your partner can cope with the current medical responsibilities (in both time and money), and they are only going to get worse as the dog gets older.  You may not find a rescue who is willing to take on an older sick dog (they're out there, but all the rescues are stretched to their limits).

 

If you decide you are going to keep the entire male you really need to commit to getting him desexed.  Also I would not bring another dog into the home for some time yet.  Let your daughter get a bit bigger, and let the dog that's staying settle down into the new family dynamic.

 

I wish you the best of luck

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Boronia   

Hi Jaison,

welcome to Dogz :) and I hope we can help with your predicament.

What area of Qld are you from? perhaps some of us can suggest a reputable rescue near your area that you can go and have a chat to...whether to surrender one, or both of your dogs or to suggest options, your situation seems fairly urgent as you both must be exhausted and can't think logically, your little girl is requiring most of your partner's and your time (this is normal) and the added stress isn't good at all for your loved ones and, of course, your dogs.

This may be the hardest thing you have ever done but you and your partner must seriously think about surrendering both dogs for your family's well being. Keep in mind that the dogs can't be very happy in their situation either.

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20 hours ago, Jaison420 said:

Having to think for the rest of my life feel like I let the dog down. 

 

This made me tear up, Jaison, and is something that many of us can relate to, certainly I can.  You have one of the most unenviable situations for dog owners.  A few thoughts came to me reading your post and other comments - all of which you and your partner need to consider carefully, but quickly.  

 

If anything I have to say comes across as seeming a bit hard, please know that is not my intention.  Your situation is very sad, but for the sake of your baby, you must act without delay.   

 

Nothing is going to stop the two dogs from fighting and their lives must be intolerable, because two incompatible dogs forced to be in each other’s company 24/7 makes for a very unhappy time.  Keeping dogs separated, particularly big dogs is exhausting and depressing.  Do you know who starts the fights or do they just seem to lunge at each other and go for it?  From your comment about taking the muzzle off Wilba and in no time they were fighting again, do we understand that Wilba starts the fights? 

 

Wilba’s skin condition must be driving him mad.  I developed a skin condition many years ago and although I can reason and tell myself not to scratch, sometimes I simply could not stop and would scratch until I bled.  And I could take myself off to the doctor for advice and prescriptions, Wilba can't.  I wouldn’t wish an itchy skin on anyone .... except those people who won’t try to help dogs with the problem.  Generally, a dog with a skin problem has an owner who won’t give it flea treatment and a bath.  

 

I wonder what Wilba’s other health issues are?  He certainly has been through a lot and maybe is in constant pain or just feeling unwell considering he is a young dog who doesn’t want to play.  The first thing I think that needs to be done is a complete veterinary examination of Wilba to determine whether his health problems are treatable or not.  If the latter, consider euthanasia.  Very very very hard to do, but being alive isn’t necessarily living.  If they are treatable, then you need to seriously look at rehoming him with complete disclosure, and, as @Her Majesty Dogmad suggested, find a reputable rescue group to take him on or advise/guide you.  

 

Buddy needs to be desexed.  Not that this will stop the fights, but it will be better for him.  It will nor change him and he will still be your Buddy.  

 

You and your partner cannot continue to take the risk of being hurt.  I have been bitten on a few occasions by dogs weighing less than 6kg and once I ended up with seven stitches from a little terrified Maltese.   German Shepherd sized dogs can do a hell of a lot of damage and worse.    

 

As @Rebanne said above, your baby is soon to be a toddler and you need eyes and attention at the full with toddlers.  A moment’s distraction can lead to tragedy.  

 

There must be a lot of tension, worry, fear and anxiety in your household at the moment.  This is not a good atmosphere for anyone particularly your baby.  Babies and animals are very intuitive and easily pick up on the atmosphere around them and they can be damaged by this.  

 

If Wilba was gone, Buddy will be a happier dog.  With just Buddy you would have more energy to take him to the park and for walks.  And maybe your partner could do that as well, at least take him out when you and/or she takes the baby out in the stroller.   

 

I hope we have helped you make some hard but 100% necessary decisions.  As I said, your situation is sad and unenviable, but for all your sakes needs to be resolved quickly.  

 

Please know that our sympathies and understanding lie with all of you.  

 

Keep us informed.    

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Loving my Oldies
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Rebanne   

Loving My Oldies does make a lot of sense except for the bit about skin conditions due to owners not willing to bathe or flea treat the dog. I've had a couple of allergy prone dogs and it's the grass.

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1 hour ago, Rebanne said:

Loving My Oldies does make a lot of sense except for the bit about skin conditions due to owners not willing to bathe or flea treat the dog. I've had a couple of allergy prone dogs and it's the grass.

Yes, there are cases which defy easy solutions.  But I have rescued and fostered so many dogs over the years in terrible conditions which were resolved after a couple of baths and regular flea treatment.  
 

My little Pomeranian, Mezza, is one.  His tail was like a rat’s, hairless, red and raw.  And his back was similar taking three baths before I managed to get all the flea dirt out of his fur.  All cured in no time.  
 

Wilba seems to have multiple health problems, but Jaison did say that his partner was “lazy” and would not bath him. 

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Yeah she won't get off her butt to wash him which is sad and it's just my opinion that she should deal with her own dog and I deal with mine and that's how it's always been. 

 

Cheers for the responses everyone I have read everything and for now we have decided to get buddy desexed which is happening in 2 days. And in a week will reintroduce them to each other and hopefully they will be okay. 

 

Also we always break them up, this time we will supervise and stop it if it gets bad but we are going to try and let them establish who is alpha male and to establish a pecking order. 

 

We both made a promise to our dogs to keep them forever and make sure they are safe. 

 

But anyways. Going to try this and hopefully they can get along and stay outside together. It's good if they could because they excersize each other and puts less demand on us to take them for walks as they kind of entertain themselves, 

 

But for us to keep them both they will need to be able to get along outside together as it's too much on us having one inside with the baby. 

 

They will only be let in when the baby is asleep and we can cuddle them one on one and give them both their serperate cuddle time usually one comes in this night and the other dog has the next night. 

 

Just need our house back. 

 

If it doesn't work I will talk to you all about the next step but that's what we decided so far. 

 

I would like to take them excersizing more maybe 2 walks each a week to the oval for a run for half hour is about all I have time for them. 

 

Feel bad as I wish I could do more but I have to work and train and father and everything else.

 

Main thing for me and her is, we have deep connections and love for our dogs and our worst fear is not being their guardians because of people abusing them or putting them down is our worst fear. 

We just want them to have a happy life. 

 

Anyone got any ideas on toys that can make their back yard more stimulating like hiding food around for them to sniff out and chew and try get into like puzzles for dogs ?? 

 

Cheers guys very good all these responses did not expect so many opinions cheers everyone

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1 hour ago, Jaison420 said:

hiding food around for them to sniff out and chew and try get into like puzzles for dogs ?? 

This will lead to even worse fights :(

Fighting for top dog , if you keep supervising , COULD easily result in severe/fatal injuries one day - and you say you have no money . What then? It's not really fair on you or the dogs that they need to fight for top spot :( 
Rehoming one to a carefully sought- for and checked out home seems the best option . No, I am NOT talking a scum-tree ad , or a "free to good home ad " I am talking lots of research, maybe co-ordinating with the local vets /dog community , or check with us for reputable rescues  to whom one dog could be surrendered and found a suitable place that way . .....with support and supervision. 

 

Quote

we have deep connections and love for our dogs

However, your family has changed- you now have work, and a baby , and need to focus your attentions in different places . You already can't manage to give the dogs the walks they need each day ..you have only so many hours, and so much energy :( Things are difficult , and the dogs absorb a lot of YOUR stress . I don't envy you at all ....and so hope you can come to a wise decision or two soon. 

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Rebanne   

Absolutely no food or toys for them to fight over.

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Scratch   

 These dogs will never be happy living together and it doesn’t matter how much you love them. That REALLY doesn’t matter very much to the dogs.

Forcing them to live together you’re basically enabling an abusive relationship. 

People who hate each other and fight violently are never going to cohabitate happily or safely. 
there’s a slim chance that desexing your male dog will dampen down the situation but it’s not going to happen in a few days. It may take months. It may need to be combined with extremely diligent separation and very knowledgeable behavioural modification training that will be onerous and ongoing. There is NO room for lazy in this effort. It will need to be a determined consistent daily grind. Take a moment if you think that’s sounds like hard work for you, I can assure you it will be 100 times harder for the dogs. And It may not work at all. 

I really feel for your difficult situation but dig deep and ask yourself if keeping these dogs together will ever be harmonious and safe. For them. Sometimes tough love is the best love. 
 

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Snook   
2 hours ago, Jaison420 said:

Cheers for the responses everyone I have read everything and for now we have decided to get buddy desexed which is happening in 2 days. And in a week will reintroduce them to each other and hopefully they will be okay. 

 

Also we always break them up, this time we will supervise and stop it if it gets bad but we are going to try and let them establish who is alpha male and to establish a pecking order. 

 

We both made a promise to our dogs to keep them forever and make sure they are safe. 

It takes time for desexing to have any effect on behaviour, assuming it has any effect at all. You will not be able to reintroduce these dogs after desexing and have everything be okay.

 

Allowing them to fight it out and establish who is the alpha is a terrible and harmful plan. Dogs should not have to be put in this position and it may take a fight to the death for it to be resolved. Please do not do this. It is completely unfair and incredibly stressful for your dogs. 

 

Although I believe you genuinely love your dogs and think that they are forever, you are not keeping them safe by continuing with the current situation and it doesn't matter how much we love our dogs, if we cannot meet their needs. It would be far better for the dogs to be in a happy, relaxed home with someone else, or even euthanised, than to live out the rest of their days with constant tension and fights. 

 

2 hours ago, Jaison420 said:

But anyways. Going to try this and hopefully they can get along and stay outside together. It's good if they could because they excersize each other and puts less demand on us to take them for walks as they kind of entertain themselves, 

 

I would like to take them excersizing more maybe 2 walks each a week to the oval for a run for half hour is about all I have time for them. 

 

Feel bad as I wish I could do more but I have to work and train and father and everything else.

 

Why do you want dogs if they are going to be confined to the back yard and be required to entertain each other, with maybe two half hour walks/runs a week if you have time? You cannot expect two dogs who don't get along to happily live in a back yard together and if this is all the time that you have for your dogs, then you need to consider whether you are even in a position to own any dog at this stage in your life. 

 

2 hours ago, Jaison420 said:

Main thing for me and her is, we have deep connections and love for our dogs and our worst fear is not being their guardians because of people abusing them or putting them down is our worst fear. 

We just want them to have a happy life. 

 

Anyone got any ideas on toys that can make their back yard more stimulating like hiding food around for them to sniff out and chew and try get into like puzzles for dogs ?? 

It doesn't matter how deep your connection to your dogs is, if their welfare is suffering in their current environmemt. They are not living a happy life right now. 

 

Other than letting them fight it out, providing food based toys and stimulation while they are together, and even more so whilst together and unsupervised, is one of the worst things you could do. Food is a massive trigger for fights between dogs and given that there is already long standing tension and fights between them, this is highly likely to end badly. 

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Jaison, please go back and read the responses to your original post.  
 

Your plans are nothing short of a recipe for disaster.  
 

Desexing Buddy now is good, but only for his well being.  It will not change the dynamics between him and Wilba.

 

Hiding food and toys to try to make your back yard more entertaining for the dogs is just about the worst thing you could do.  Please don’t do this.  
 

It is time to understand the unfulfilling,  unhappy and dangerous lives these two dogs are living and to give them any hope of happiness, they must be separated by rehoming both or one of them under the conditions I mentioned in my first post.  

 

They present a danger to your family - this knowledge should outweigh any promises you made to the dogs.  Conversely, you have a greater chance of fulfilling that promise by giving them separate lives.  
 

 

 

 

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Dogsfevr   

The issue you have is neither off you want to give the dogs the stimulation they need or deserve .Its not a case off your dog my dog there family pets & 2 hands make light work & not that much effort for both to help bathe or walk these dogs .
Whilst you say you made a promise to keep the dogs forever  & you say you worry about other owners abusing them the dogs would prefer a promise of going for walks & having time & effort made to them not garden ornaments in the backyard which are now a inconvenience because they have had enough . Abuse comes in many forms & not going for walks or having there time can tick that box

They live a rotated life off looking at fences and nothing else .

2 dogs doesn’t equate to a playmate or mean that simple basics of enrichment off the property doesn’t happen.

These 2 dogs have no variety or time out from each other, there is now a baby in the pack that allows them even less daily enrichment so no surprise there likely getting fed up with each  other  and that it’s escalating.

They have nothing to look forward too just the same old nothing .

 

If you do rehome one please don’t get another dog to replace it ,it’s not a case of move one out and bring something that’s a better fit in especially when your plans to do no exercise or enrichment wont change your just setting up another possible failure and that’s not fair on the dog  and your baby will get older and require dedication from you both to ensure your dog/s can live safely around a child without undue stress to them .

Keep one and start making its life fun ,take it to the dog part and let it live life & when that one passes reassess if they time is right for a another dog to be part of the household & get the needs it expects .
 

 

The only potential for success here is with effort and to be blunt it won’t happen if the dogs don’t even get walked or it’s part off an all too hard attitude and I don’t want to attitude .

Spaying won’t stop what’s happening & infact can make some dogs more aggressive .The money you will spend here would have been better suited to a trainer assessment /
 

Edited by Dogsfevr
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Jaison..to say it again ..after having his balls removed , Buddy will still FEEL ,.SMELL and ACT like a full male DOG for weeks , possibly months  afterwards,as it takes time for the hormones in his body to leave . 
desexing is NOT a miracle cure- it will NOT stop fighting. 

As you love your dog, please do NOT put him in the situation where he has to fight :( 

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