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Why so few puppies for sale and why so expensive?


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well, I cruised gumtree . .The pet breeders have not only stepped in the massive gap. they are even asking more than ANKC breeders if comparing the litters advertised on Dogzonline?   Asked in the breeders section as at this morning 92 read it but not a one has made a comment.  

 

Is there any recommended prices? 

For the various breeds?

 

 

 

I noticed in the Dogzonline litters for sale in  Cattle dogs, two breeders are asking 1,000 each for their puppies.   Others dont put the price . 

 

 

This add is among others on gumtree and interestingly realised are not even ankc registered?   They are advertised as ACD's yet all described as stumpy tails?

as anyone who knows cattle dogs, stumpy's do not have black and tan on them.

 

 

 

Australian Cattle Dog pups
5 images
860 views

Australian Cattle Dog pups

$2,500
Orange, Orange New South Wales, Australia
Cattle Dog Pups
Females $2500
Males $2000
Available from 14th Jan 2021
Microchipped and Vet checked TBA
Responsible Pet Breeders Association number RPBA:2686

Direct message for more information.
  • Date Listed:04/01/2021
  • Last Edited:04/01/2021
  • The state where this ad will be found:NSW
  • Breed:Australian Cattle dog
  • Size:Medium
  • Pet's Date of Birth:19/11/2020
  • Purebred:Yes
  • Pet Offered By:Breeder
  • Microchip no. (Req'd NSW, QLD, SA, ACT, VIC):953010001726422
  • Pet Age:Younger Than Six Months
  • Rehome From:14/01/2021
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Yes puppy prices have jumped by huge amounts this year and from my research the reason legit breeders increased their prices was because the puppy farmers did, it has been to stop people buying their

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I just cant believe this, that they are asking and I suspect getting more than ANKC bred ACD's?

 

What on earth is going on?

 

these are not even from health tested parents?

 

afraid to go checking on prices for all the other breeds, to compare the differences, just cant believe this has happened

 

 

 

Australian Blue cattle dog puppies for sale
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879 views

Australian Blue cattle dog puppies for sale

$2,000
Tumut Plains
We have 2 female Australian Blue cattle dog puppies for sale. Fully vaccinated, wormed and microchipped. Member of the RPBA.
  • Date Listed:09/01/2021
  • Last Edited:Yesterday
  • Breeder Licence no. (Req'd for ACT Breeders):2956
  • The state where this ad will be found:NSW
  • Breed:Australian Cattle dog
  • Size:Medium
  • Pet's Date of Birth:21/11/2020
  • Purebred:Yes
  • Pet Offered By:Breeder
  • Microchip no. (Req'd NSW, QLD, SA, ACT, VIC):991003000822947
  • Pet Age:Younger Than Six Months
  • Rehome From:16/01/2021
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Think last count, three ANKC have been asking 1,000

 

I actually rang two and asked why so cheap, to be told," I am not breeding for the money."  It is nice people can buy a cheap ankc puppy, but too few being bred anyway

 

I know how much it costs to raise a puppy, so lucky to cover costs .  From the photos all the cheap puppies were FAR better quality than the ones above.  SO why is asking less than a puppy is actually worth believed to be proving your a better person? 


We are Registered breeders with Dogs NSW, we are not back yard breeders. Our litters are planned and our puppies are born and raised in the house with us, and will be available when they are 8 weeks of age, they will come fully registered with Dogs NSW on the main register, wormed fortnightly from two weeks of age, microchipped immunised vet checked fully socialised with other dogs cats chooks horses etc and six weeks free puppy insurance.
Please see our website above for all sales terms and conditions of sale.
$1000.00 each plus transport at purchasers expense.
Thanks
 
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On 01/11/2020 at 9:36 AM, asal said:

I know everyone was told, dont breed, we dont want people wanting a puppy just because they are stuck at home.

I have no idea where it is now. but at the time I asked.. Do our dogs know because there is a pandemic they are not allowed to die of old age or accident until its over?

 

I am getting phone calls on average three to five a week, some days that many in one day. 

And every one of them is to replace the dog they have just lost or finally getting over the loss after a year or so and yep there are no dogs to be found.

 

how how did that come about?  its not just because of the pandemic

 

the call has been out not to breed an ankc litter for decades unless you wish to replace for yourself.

nothing is more unethical or irresponsible than to breed a litter for sale as pets.

As for letting anyone have a main register pup and keep members in the ANKC?

Most of the breeders are dead end kennels, Never sell a main register pup.

Over 20 years ago I loaned one of mine to a "friend" to breed a pup with the option of a second litter if she was not happy with a pup from the first.. Sooo  she bred two litters. 7 in each litter and sold every one of them on limit register. and they were 2000 pups 20 years ago. so she pocketed $24,000 and bought a car and imported a pup instead.

I was supposed to get a pup from each litter and I did. but as she had first choice and each time she said there were two she was deciding between I had to settle for 3rd choice.   So I was pretty pissed off when I learned she had limit registered every one aside from my two 3rd choices and sold them all as pets?

 

yep there are some interesting people that are ankc "breeders" and think they are the perfection of ethical and responsible.

 

But dont worry.

 

The government is granting breeding licences to commercial puppy farms to fill the massive gap there now is between the hundreds of thousands of people who would love a pet.

 

I just find it hilarious that although no one should be allowed to be an ankc member if they are a "puppy farmer" yet if you are inspected by the rspca for compliance to the "POCTA for breeding dogs and cats" which is minimum by law you must comply with. 

What is this "POCTA"   read it and you realise, our government in NSW, who made it law, is the minimum standard for a puppy farm.

 

The difference of course is although an ankc member is actually a legal puppy farm. They dare not breed pets for joe public.  that would be unethical and irresponsible and hated by your fellow members.

 

So it is up to the real puppy farms to gear up and meet the demand. 

 

The ankc have seen this coming for years. or they would not have published this

 

http://ankc.org.au/media/6598/a-forensic-view-of-puppy-breeding-in-australiav4.pdf

Hello Asal, would like to know more about the case on the long gap you had on a female that had the stillborns and 2 weeks later the other ones... what antibiotics did you use? My email [email protected]

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On 12/01/2021 at 11:00 AM, asal said:

well, I cruised gumtree . .The pet breeders have not only stepped in the massive gap. they are even asking more than ANKC breeders if comparing the litters advertised on Dogzonline?   Asked in the breeders section as at this morning 92 read it but not a one has made a comment.  

 

Is there any recommended prices? 

For the various breeds?

 

 

 

I noticed in the Dogzonline litters for sale in  Cattle dogs, two breeders are asking 1,000 each for their puppies.   Others dont put the price . 

 

 

This add is among others on gumtree and interestingly realised are not even ankc registered?   They are advertised as ACD's yet all described as stumpy tails?

as anyone who knows cattle dogs, stumpy's do not have black and tan on them.

 

 

 

Australian Cattle Dog pups
5 images
860 views

Australian Cattle Dog pups

$2,500
Orange, Orange New South Wales, Australia
Cattle Dog Pups
Females $2500
Males $2000
Available from 14th Jan 2021
Microchipped and Vet checked TBA
Responsible Pet Breeders Association number RPBA:2686

Direct message for more information.
  • Date Listed:04/01/2021
  • Last Edited:04/01/2021
  • The state where this ad will be found:NSW
  • Breed:Australian Cattle dog
  • Size:Medium
  • Pet's Date of Birth:19/11/2020
  • Purebred:Yes
  • Pet Offered By:Breeder
  • Microchip no. (Req'd NSW, QLD, SA, ACT, VIC):953010001726422
  • Pet Age:Younger Than Six Months
  • Rehome From:14/01/2021

 

Well, previously I would have said that cattle dogs are a landrace, and people looking for a good farm dog might not care about tan markings or tails. I do notice, however, that they are RPBA memebers, and not a working dog registry. ACDs are also popular at the moment, due to the TV show Bluey, and so are a target for people making quick money.

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pardon me while I laugh my head off. If i was going to breed to make money it wouldn't be cattle dogs, all that work for less than half the return of the cavaliers, oodles u name it "popular" breeds.

 

As well as the fact if the buyer had no knowledge of working dog breeds its a disaster waiting to happen. They are way too smart for the average dog person. Will end up in charge and training the human.

 

 

Edited by asal
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On 02/11/2020 at 5:45 PM, moosmum said:

 

Yep. All valid points.

But would not be having the same impact if breeding for pet markets and demands had been accepted from the start, and less push for regulation, more focus on showing people how to make it all work.If people understand the work involved and its purpose, they are less likely to over estimate their abilities to do it, or recognise where a seller has failed. 

 The socialisation aspect would be a problem, but pedigrees would hold a higher percentage of the market, contain more diversity (and meet more diverse needs for that) and accessibility.

 

It would be definitely. be more  difficult to screen buyers !

 

I  keep reading that.

Socialisation of puppies in lockdown is not possible?

Socialisation is the breeders job.

Talk to your puppies.

Play with your puppies 

Laugh with your puppies and what happens? 

Happy enthusiastic puppies

 

You don't need a crowd to Socialisation baby puppies

 

They are so young they don't yet differentiate between faces.

They run to anyone who sounds friendly and happy

Its not rocket science as the thought police try to convince everyone. 

 

I haven't had one single person call to get a pup who isn't replacing one they have lost.

 

 

Not a single one in lockdown looking for a dog to relieve the blues.

Edited by asal
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just took a 10 week puppy to friend who had to quarantine due to possible exposure so couldn't get him till now.

I was worried he was growing so fast his now much bigger size might cause her cats to be more inclined to see him as a threat.

Her boy she had lost last year had obviously missed the no dying until covid is gone.

 

He had never met her till now

So what happened? 

She called. Here puppy puppy

 

Amazingly. 

Well if the thought police are to be believed. 

He sure wouldn't have ran to her tail helicoptering with joy at meeting a new best friend.

He has never seen a cat before as I don't have any. 

He tactfully approached her cats.

Sat and waited for them stop hissing at the new face.

Even Kismet her really timid boy didn't go bolting but checked him out from the safety of the top of the arm of the lounge

 

This morning they surrounded him and let him understand he's bottom of the pecking order.

No one hit him with a paw unsheathed. 

 

So even his cat socialisation skills are progressing well 

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I have just done what I couldn't have imagined last year, and paid $700. for a mongrel. Not a designer breed. A mongrel- that might have sold as a pup last year for well under $500. So a BYB dog.

I have no regrets(so far!) There was another buyer ready to take her sight unseen if I had decided against this 10 month old dog. I was looking for a pup, because many of the things I was looking for come down to training and socialisation in specific environments. This pup has had much of that good grounding done, with the added benefits that I can see what she looks like mature, even though shes not finished,  and can judge the temperament traits much better.

 

So I have here a very stable confident dog who doesn't seem to have any  issues, works for a connection and communication. She is showing her frustration atm at being inside by ripping up a newspaper. Has already learned my furniture is off limits, but she has her own. Has gone from yesterday wanting to dive onto my free range chooks, to this morning happy to walk past them and look to within 6 feet. She is gently but very firmly putting Goose in his place for humping (she is just finishing her 1st season)

 

People who want dogs will pay what they have to. I hope that prices don't stay so high in general that people who need dogs in their lives can't afford to have them there. That seems to be the case atm.

Pedigree or cross doesn't come into it for most people. They have an idea of what they want weather thats well informed or not. I think a breeders responsibility is to have a well informed market because that tends to regulate itself. With expectation and demand.That includes welfare issues- because a well informed market will not support poor breeders  with their purchase choices.

 

You could say this dog I have was not bred to any standard or fore thought, is an accident. But she meets  my standards when no breeder here came forward to say they could do the same. I would have supported that breeder with my choice. This may have been an accidental breeding-Or it could have been her breeder valued the traits this dog demonstrates above a breed standard that mentions them, but doesn't have any means to reward their demonstration where pedigrees are judged.

 

@asal If I had been looking for a breed, rather than a dog with specific traits (a cattle dog) you'd have been the 1st breeder I contacted because what I have learned from you here is that I could trust you for comprehensive knowledge of your dogs and what you want of the pups you produce,and an honest assessment of suitability etc. That should be of value to any buyer. Well informed buyers will pay for that. Theres no reason they shouldn't,  lots of reasons  they should, because then your success is something to emulate.

 

 

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I’ve been looking for a dog for a long time now and it’s just getting harder, especially in SA. There isn’t much to choose from and the majority are extremely expensive fluffy mixes averaging 4000 to 6000. I saw a mixed poodle pup advertised in the next town from me for 8700.00 last week! 
People are even asking 2000 plus for Staffy mix, kelpie mix etc. 

the shelters are empty most days  zero to a handful of dogs availability, add to that read their bios they are mainly bull breed mixes and working dog mixes and most are reading as poorly socialised, poorly conditioned, shy, anxious, fence jumping, noise phobic crazies with separation issues! 
 

Hardly any of the purebreed ads here have an indication of price, and so many breeders seem offended if it’s the first question you ask. 
Also there’s stuff like this from ANKC breeders too , which I just cannot understand. What has the covid got to do with it? That’s just taking advantage and price gauging

 

 

8A8D5995-C586-4E71-83AF-55612366CE21.jpeg

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I really hate that, with holding the price tag on an ad. I seldom enquire because I think of the  saying  "if you have to ask you can't afford it" and that attitude is one I have no time for.

It takes little effort and could save both parties time.

 

Its a little better in N.S.W. but I doubt I would have found a dog either, If I had been looking for a small dog. My daughter managed a lovely 11 month old re home, but only because the breeder knows her and believed  the placement was best for the dog.

 

My girls breeds are not ones I would have looked to, she falls into the category of bull breed and working dog mixes you mention. She  seems to have had a very good set of young owners who took care that she was well socialised and cared for. She  seems to be quite stable with a desire to communicate.

 

Prices are insane.  I don't blame sellers for asking the going price.

I blame this idea that welfare issues will be cured by constricting  breeders to some vague and un-definable 'best practice',  rather than demonstration to inform better expectations for it. 

 

Form follows function. To set the form of a breeder 1st, is to limit their functional potential, their purpose and responsibilities (which are  now 1st, to form or they can't exist)

 

If I want to invent a washing machine I could  say its form will fit in my pocket and sound like a opera, because that would be the best washing machine. 

There might be a lot of agreement on that. But its purpose is going to be severely limited with the technology available today and I would not be taking full responsibility for its purpose. 

 

 

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No lockdown in NZ. Puppy prices are up, and mixes are often more expensive than purebreds.  Trademe prices seldom exceed $4k (this seems to be the going price for a daschund).  I've been following Springers.... usually $1500-$2000.  Lab Springer crosses are a bit more expensive,  as are pups near big cities. Huntaways and heading dogs and mixes thereof are still under $1k. 

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I just discovered this morning Moosesmum one of my puppies is now studying law.

 

he is now going to work with his human and attended his first case in court yesterday

 

Had no idea that dogs are allowed in court.

Learn something every day

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Yep, I would definitely look to you for a cattle dog! 

That shows great stability and trainability. 

Congratulations! Well done.:thumbsup:

 

Don't you love hearing of your dogs successes in their 'working' life?!

 

 

This is what I have to work with- The last sort of cross breed I expected to show the sort of stability and work ethics I was after in a large dog, but so far a start as a we mean to continue approach seems to be working very well. She seems to have a great appreciation of her un-even size advantage with Goose.

Adjusting fast to being an inside outside dog, slept through her 1st night in my room no fuss. A couple messes her 1st 12 hours, but has already learned how to tell me she needs to toilet.

Weight needs some increase, but her coat is glossy and it would have been easy for her young owners to have trouble keeping up with her growth. better lean than over weight I think.

 

need a name change if any one can come up with some thing I like- Short!

Her name is too close to Coda and I keep calling her that- there will only ever be one Coda for me so It upsets me to catch myself doing that.

coco1 003.JPG

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excellent muscling 

 

no idea what x she is. but kind of reminds me of honey my daughter in laws sister greyhound?

 

she was amazing girl

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On an errand for my work today, I met a lovely Kelpie breeder who is NOT charging crazy prices for her fully ANKC papered pups... such a breath of fresh air... and absolutley divine pups to boot!

 

T.

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3 hours ago, asal said:

excellent muscling 

You should see her from behind!

3 hours ago, asal said:

 

no idea what x she is. but kind of reminds me of honey my daughter in laws sister greyhound?

 

she was amazing girl

 

Her owners bought her as a Mastiff Dane cross. Head on,  the mastiff is clear. She may have both those, but I'm pretty sure there is more. She has bristle hairs on her chest that suggest Deer or wolf hound. A friend  says Ridge back. The hair between her shoulders is more bristly/erect too, .Her ears will prick erect, with just the very tips slightly bent.

2 minutes ago, tdierikx said:

On an errand for my work today, I met a lovely Kelpie breeder who is NOT charging crazy prices for her fully ANKC papered pups... such a breath of fresh air... and absolutley divine pups to boot!

 

T.

 

That is a breath of fresh air!

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The problem is, the "crazy prices" are not just the pups. vets prices are going up and up too. Friend just paid $3,000 for a ceaser.  My puppy food is now $127 a bag and fresh meat is not going down any day soon. Neither are vaccinations or microchipping.  Its the incomming costs are going up inexorably too.

 

The reason I stopped breeding my horses.

I could get far more income from my cows and you sell your calves before mum has the next one. so five years of income from your cow. Yet horse people want it 5 years old, broken in ready to ride and thought 1500 was a fair price?

it costs more than that to get them going under saddle?

So even though they were topping State and National in performance my cows were returning $5000 over the same period. One of my mares would have 4 of her foals eating the same feed as one cow for each year they grew to 5 years.  so financially hubby said. nothing foals until the last foal is sold. Had to agree. So one foal in 5 years for offers of $1500.   I am hopeless at math but even I can see that's no go.

 

Its financial suicide to supply horse riders for below the cost of production 

 

ditto for puppies, but then ankc members have been extorted to sell their puppies for below the cost of production for quite a few years now to show how "ethical and responsible" they are.

 

It also eliminates the pensioners whose "pin money" from their puppies supplemented their income, who were the back bone of the ankc, (the ANKC did a survey which proved this fact)   

as they were the majority of long term members. But then they too was considered expendable in the rush to prove ankc members were not supplying puppies to people who would dump them and end up in the pounds.

To be "ethical and responsible" you also need to be financially independent and can afford to breed a litter at a loss.

 

As one old long time member asked me not that long ago. who like me is considering retirement from breeding.  "do you get the feeling the first priority for being an ankc member these days is stupidity?"

 

 

culling the membership of all but the independently wealthy does not automatically select for breeding excellence 

 

But that is where things seem to have gone.

 

I did ask does your doctor refuse to bill you enough to cover his outgoings to be "ethical and responsible"

Do you go to work and tell your boss your "ethical and responsible" and dont need a wage to cover food and home?

Why is your time caring and feeding your puppies and parents worth nothing?

 

Plenty of reasons why you are worth nothing.. well we are continually assured its the gold standard of

 "ethical and responsible"

 

 

 

 

Edited by asal
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Vets can be negotiated with for better pricing if you are a regular and financially responsible client... also microchipping courses are available to anyone, so if you are needing to do it regularly, then it would be beneficial to become a licensed implanter yourself too. Unfortunately, due to the composition of the various vaccines, they do need to be done by a licensed vet, but theoretically you could negotiate a lower cost for doing an entire litter.

 

T.

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Well the chap who had to pay 3000 has been using the same vet for 30 years and sure is not happy.  they seem to have trippled  in price over a pretty short period from what I've heard and when u need a ceaser u dont tend to have much wiggle room for negotiating

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