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just to let you know asal. The Vet of his had noted it on the vaccination Cert so he didn't really have a excuse not to let us know in my opinion?? Interestingly though we probably would have still taken her anyway but would have definately done a bit of research to find out what we were going to be up for with the fault she has.. Have been

in touch with breeder to ask if any of the other pups had similar faults & if not was it fair that he still charged us full price for our pup?? All good will see how it ends eventually.

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11 minutes ago, Dogsfevr said:

I guess what you need to look at is if you decide to pursue the breeder for costs you may not get what you fully want .
In this case if we sold a pup & something went wrong after purchase & the person contacted us we would get a second opinion .Why because too many vets do get it wrong & it can be an expensive wrong .
We make it very clear in our puppy folder if anything weird crops up let us know.
We have been there last year with a pup we sold & what a massive screw the puppy owners did .
We received a very nasty email based on the vet telling them we breed an issue & they should pursue bigtime .
Give the owners one moment of credit they did decide to email us before they did what there vet wanted .
Got a second opinion & that vet was horrified at the complete incompetence & the attitude.
The puppy owners forwarded all the tests,x rays to the vet picked ,that vet discussed the findings with there vet & just shock there head .
Dog actually had no issue ,had a treatable issue the second opinion vet found & that was found to be due to something the owners mismanaged themselves .
Short story pet owners paid big bucks for testing & extra testing based on there vet ,they no longer talk to us due to the aggressive method they picked  informing us (most likely very embarrassed ) .
There vet as a side note charge $1500 to spay a 6 kg dog which is OMG .

So i think you need to do some serious deciding on the path you want to follow .
Keep in mind if you ask for refund then generally you return the goods .
Many breeders will refund the price & work with the no further costs if you want to keep the pup ,you truly need to start talking with the breeder .
As you have found from replies on the post your vet is saying go big ,where those with experience work with go simple whilst still growing .
In the end only you can decide

 

Interesting because we are at the moment waiting to hear back from breeder for some of his advice on the issue?? will keep you posted on reply / response.

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the incompetence of some so called vets is almost beyond belief , 

 

I know many amazing vets and they just shake their heads at what some do.

 

never forget a friend who was told she was expect to pay 7,000 for surgery to both the elbows of a pup she had given away to a "friend"?  The vet they took the limping pup too said it had elbow dysplasia and the breeder should pay for the surgery.

 

 

she rang me horrified and I advised her to demand a second opinion from her vet. who confirmed it had both front legs fractured at the elbows and discovered from one of the children she had jumped from the verandah and fell ten feet to the ground,landing on her feet and had done it not once but twice the day she began limping, this was a eight months old pup and she was so fat she weighed more than her mother?

 

 

Edited by asal
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I’m glad to hear you’re going to a specialist clinic. Your pup is a lucky duck to receive top notch veterinary care.

 

This is a super gross way to talk about it but in consumer law puppies are like products, and if a product is faulty there may potentially be recourse through your state consumer tribunal. However, as with products, often you’re left with returning the puppy for a refund or exchange, not a contribution to future vet care on a beloved pet that you want to keep.

 

With regards to what to do, follow the specialist’s advice. Get a second opinion from another veterinary dentist if you want one. They’re the ones who have examined your pup and who are experts in their field who keep up to date with the latest research and techniques.

Edited by Papillon Kisses
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except it seems its the "specalist clinic" that wants to surgically remove her puppy teeth that will fall out naturally anyway? 

It was a "specalist clinic" that could not diferentiate between elbow displacia and them actually being fractured?   

A nice sign is not the guarantee so many assume.

Another friend always uses a high profile "specalist clinic"  when dear one developed pneumonia after his latest yearly vaccination, I suggested she stop annually vaccinating him, he was now 16 and it was known they do not need annual vaccinations.   (Both dogs and cats, incidentally)

 

It cost 1500 to save him from that initial reaction.   Next year she again received her reminder and took him back.  It cost 4,000 to save him from the next reaction.   Again I told her, DONT DO IT AGAIN.    

so fast forward ... it cost her 7,000 to save him and this third time even the specialists suggested perhaps the vaccine was the problem... he then lived hale and hearty to 20.  Dear one was a cat.  but specialist vets treat both dogs and cats, so they make mistakes with both breeds it seems

 

take a good look at the roof of her mouth, is it bleeding from them perforating the roof of her mouth?

 

even if it is, which I greatly doubt.

 Ive seen puppies with this and the top of the mouth indents where the teeth are touching it,  the previous advice to have them cut is far less damaging to the baby jaw bones than surgery of deciduous teeth in a rapidly growing jaw which as others have noted can continue to grow and end up with the adult teeth going to the sides as they emerge.  I know two, do just that as their adult teeth came up.

 

also as others have noted, others with a perfect scissor bite at 8 weeks when their adult teeth have come in have over or under bite.   Man proposes, God disposes.   Then its up to us to deal with the results we didnt expect

Edited by asal
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The reason they’re removed (or other interventions taken) before they fall out naturally in cases like these is so that the jaw and adult canines can move into their proper positions rather than being stuck. If you don’t intervene the mouth can be ruined for life plus there are impacts on temperament. This pup is stabbing the roof of their mouth every time they close it, such that holes are forming in the mouth. Dogs hide pain especially if they’ve had it for life, but can you imagine just how painful that would be?? Doing nothing is flat out cruel. People need to listen to their vets, not random people on the internet and breeders who don’t have training in veterinary dentistry.

Edited by Papillon Kisses
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1 hour ago, Papillon Kisses said:

The reason they’re removed (or other interventions taken) before they fall out naturally in cases like these is so that the jaw and adult canines can move into their proper positions rather than being stuck. If you don’t intervene the mouth can be ruined for life plus there are impacts on temperament. This pup is stabbing the roof of their mouth every time they close it, such that holes are forming in the mouth. Dogs hide pain especially if they’ve had it for life, but can you imagine just how painful that would be?? Doing nothing is flat out cruel. People need to listen to their vets, not random people on the internet and breeders who don’t have training in veterinary dentistry.

 

why are you ignoring the fact that the teeth do no need to be pulled out?  they can be cut and then the jaw will not risk being damaged. so my vets advise comes under "some random people" if they dont agree with the high dollar alternatives by some self labeled "specialist"   ?

 

my friend would have been paying $7000 for that elbow op the "specialist" intended to do to broken bones?

 

my other friend ended up losing $12,500 to save her cat, because she thought her "specialist" vet knew better than the life experience vets who do not choose to put "specialist" on their logo? Who have told me 20 years ago annual vaccinations are over vaccinating and risking complications

 and not necessary.

 

As one of them said to me. "They get out of uni with their BvSc Degree certificate to learn at your expense". 

 

the highest price does not necessarily mean the highest level of experience.

 

I'm not sure you are allowed to name living vets

My vets  included Professor Dave Hutchens ("Prof") OAM  BVSc, Hon DVSc,  the man who eradicated Equine Influenza from Australia, the only continent to eradicate it.  LOL our pollies didn't know what a determined man they had appointed to the Quarantine dept. He locked Australia down without even consulting them first. 

Amazing special man   

‘The Prof’
They might not remember all of their time as vet science students at Camden, but most of them, even those who were only interested in small animals, will remember ‘The Prof’. This man stood out from the crowd. He was slight in stature but huge in the effect he had on students. He demonstrated an extraordinary diagnostic ability across species, a discerning eye to pick the most subtle of clinical signs, an agile, flexible and energetic mind which could always think outside the square, and the dogged tenacity to persevere when things did not go right. He had a wisdom, a certain philosophical approach and said on many occasions ‘the mark of a man is how he copes with his failures rather than his successes’."

 

 

Bob Rawlinson BVSc DVR FACVSc and Dr Percy Sykes AM MRCVS MACVSc,   (the chap who invented among other things, yellow lotion).  When Percy asked me why haven't I seen you for ages? I told him I had moved so had to find a new vet, when I named him his comment was "Ah the best one that got away!"... When I asked him what he meant, it turned out he used to work for Percy when he first left Uni after graduating. but decided to start his own practice out my way where I had moved to. High praise indeed.  These are the kind of people you dismissed with your words "not random people on the internet and breeders who don’t have training in veterinary dentistry"  Never saw them use the

words "specialist" 

Edited by asal
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Because while sometimes you can just cut them, or use braces or ball therapy, sometimes they DO need to be pulled out. And it’s the specialist who makes this assessment having examined the dog and what is going on in the mouth.

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14 hours ago, kenankaren said:

Interesting because we are at the moment waiting to hear back from breeder for some of his advice on the issue?? will keep you posted on reply / response.

 

sent you a pm

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6 hours ago, Papillon Kisses said:

Because while sometimes you can just cut them, or use braces or ball therapy, sometimes they DO need to be pulled out. And it’s the specialist who makes this assessment having examined the dog and what is going on in the mouth.

 

Any other tooth than the canine, I'd be less worried about removing from a puppy jaw. Unfortunately, the root system of the canine teeth is such that one wrong move can end is complete disaster for the dog in question - broken jaw bone being the least disastrous of the possibilities. If there is some way to save the deciduous canines until nature does it's thing and the permanent canines start coming in, that would be the best and safest option.

 

T.

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On 11/11/2020 at 12:08 AM, kenankaren said:

Puppy contracts are not used in Australia most sales are done on good merit & no insurance was offered with puppy.

I have a puppy contract in Australia

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21 hours ago, NikkiandKane said:

I have a puppy contract in Australia

As we are now finding out from a few breeders on this web site, Unfortunately we didnt get one from Breeder who has now been informed of the complaint that has been lodged about him. Dont really want to discuss it any more as it is now our problem that we will deal with as needed.

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  • 2 weeks later...

oh darn I had totally forgotten this until this morning. would have saved you all that money. Sorry

 

For anyone else out there with a puppy whose under canines are not clearing the jaw and the points are touching the roof of the mouth.

 

I remembered today what my friend Nancy did.

 

she would massage the sides of the offending lower canines every day, morning. noon and afternoon,   A puppy's teeth are as movable as yours if you wiggle them. they can be massaged sideways until they move to the sides and no longer pointing into the bottom of the jaw.

 

she began when the puppy was 6 to 8 weeks, then when the baby teeth fell out she would massage the new canines to the sides as they grew so they too were moved to the side as they grew and thus cleared the jaw.

 

when the sides of the lower  canines have cleared the sides of the jaw, the inner incisors cannot touch the roof of the mouth to cause discomfort either.

 

yes it takes patience. 

but it sure saves you a heck of a lot of money in specialist dentistry.

 

play with your own teeth. put pressure. release. put pressure, release.  you can make your teeth move and loosen them even your adult teeth if you keep at it.  

puppies bones and teeth are far softer and moveable as I saw Nancy prove with that pup.

 

was so long ago forgot about it until today.

will see if I can find photos and if so will post them

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