help regarding cross breeds

[Willow23]

HI everyone,

 

first time posting here. so please don't be too harsh on me

 

hopefully a simple question to be answered.

 

hypothetically speaking if a females dogs parentage is one parent 50% kelpie and other parent is 37.5% kelpie and 12.5% border collie, if she is bred with a full blood male kelpie does the % of border collie reduce by 1/2 in their pups??  and reduce further in her pups ?

 

thanks for you're help

[Rebanne]

genetics is not a clear cut as that. Hypothetically after several generations yes you could consider the pups look all kelpie but a BC trait could still pop up, particularly if bred to a similar dog which appears pure but has another breed in it's background. That's why most of the folks here are generally very keen on a verified pedigree.

[_PL_]

Rebanne is right about genetics. They are unpredictable. Knowing a pedigree breeder's dogs and lines give you a better chance than guesswork.

 

I don't know the percentages of our crossbreed rescues but I do know you only need a bit of terrier to have a pretty good prey drive for rats, mice etc!  

[moosmum]

Agree with the above posts,  Worth mention too is that many livestock animals are considered "pure breed" after 4 to 6 generations of 'up' breeding to pure bred stock.

The likelihood of traits in evidence from other breeds does drop significantly with mating to pedigree stock, but that reliability should not be expected for several generations.

 

 

Edited January 31, 2022 by moosmum

[sandgrubber]

Don't entirely agree.  Verified pedigrees can lie. If you read Mary Roslin Williams, quite a bit of hound blood has been slipped into pedigree Labrador lines.  True, it happened before most of us were born.  I doubt this is unique to Labbies.

[Pjrt]

I’d take it this way……. ‘purebreed’ dogs are only ‘pure’ by pedigree. They can be traced back through recorded pedigree for a certain amount of time, as only being bred into the gene pool of that particular breed.
Most outcrosses are deemed ‘pure’ again after 5 generations back to the original  breed, although there’s always a chance of throwback features popping up. 
Purebreeds that have never been outcrossed since the breed was standardised, can still occasionally have throw back features pop up, because all breeds were created by mixing dogs to begin with…….

[YOLO]

On 01/02/2022 at 3:59 AM, Willow23 said:

hypothetically speaking if a females dogs parentage is one parent 50% kelpie and other parent is 37.5% kelpie and 12.5% border collie, if she is bred with a full blood male kelpie does the % of border collie reduce by 1/2 in their pups??  and reduce further in her pups ?

 

thanks for you're help

I'm guessing you mean 100%, and 75%/25% ?  Otherwise what breed is the other 50% of each parent??

So yes, basically, the bitch in question is 1/8 BC, and if bred with a purebred her pups would be 1/16.

However Genetics are a little more complicated in reality.  Some are only present on X chromozones, offspring can get different results depending on which they get from their Sire.  Similarly there is DNA in the Mitocondria, which is different again, and only inherited from the mother.

If you look at something as apparently simple as the colours in retrievers.  There are two overriding sets that determine whether a dog will be black, brown, or yellow.  Yet browns can vary from reddish Liver (flatcoats) to dark chocolate (in some Labs) and Yellow can be anywhere from almost pure white to a deep honey colour.  And that's before you throw in patterns and other modifiers. 

[~Anne~]

21 hours ago, sandgrubber said:

Don't entirely agree.  Verified pedigrees can lie. If you read Mary Roslin Williams, quite a bit of hound blood has been slipped into pedigree Labrador lines.  True, it happened before most of us were born.  I doubt this is unique to Labbies.

I agree with this. Pedigrees, human or animal, rely on the honesty and knowledge of the human inputting the detail. 

[sandgrubber]

Hate to add to the confusion (actually, I enjoy it) but let's say, going way back, kelpies derive from BC lines and they are all about 10% BC.  Hmmm!  The math gets complicated.  Bottom line is that you might be reducing the BC component by a bit less than half.