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Is There Any Advantage in Having A Pedigree Listed On The Limited Register


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Is there any advantage to having a pedigree on the limited register except for showing the parentage details of the dog.  I can't see any other advantage in having a limited register pedigree for owners of same.

 

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I can only really think of one, which is that you can compete in ANKC sports without having to desex your dog. Otherwise your dog has to be on the associate register and be desexed. I know people who only compete in non-ANKC agility and nose work competitions as they have chosen to keep their dogs intact for health and/or behavioural reasons.

Edited by Papillon Kisses
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It's barely worth the paper it's printed on unless you wanted to sell the dog on later.

 

I would've thought purchasing and paying for "show quality" would mean the breeder would like to show off their progeny but it appears they want to limit even further the small amount of competition they already have.

 

I have always bought show quality dogs on Mains Register and been happy to pay the going rate.

 

In the past I have rehomed 4 dogs of my favourite breed .  I don't think I will be going down this path again with pedigree dogs.

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1 hour ago, Papillon Kisses said:

I can only really think of one, which is that you can compete in ANKC sports without having to desex your dog. Otherwise your dog has to be on the associate register and be desexed. I know people who only compete in non-ANKC agility and nose work competitions as they have chosen to keep their dogs intact for health and/or behavioural reasons.

I’m grumpy as heck that I can’t do earth dogs or lure coursing with my new dog because he’d be on associate register but entire. The ANKC lose out on a lot from this. 

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I don't know about worthwhile to owners, and I only registered two on limited, for the not to bred from bit (knowing they could be bred with but not registered) but if either pup had gone on to do sports then they deserved to be recognised for their breed, not as an associate. But one went to Hawaii and has had a very successful career as a pet and the other I had to PTS at 11 weeks so limited was moot.

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Whilst I can say with 99.99% certainty that I won't be breeding a dog, it irks the :mad bejesus out of me to pay $4,000 and upwards and get a useless piece of paper so the breeder can have less (potential) competition and (whichever) pooch cannot ever be shown. 

 

I made an enquiry about a dog, asking why it would be on LR, and got a whole spiel about "Unless you are a Dogs QLD ANKC member with a breeders prefix you actually cannot show or breed so a main register pedigree is of no significance". Still did not get a truthful response as to *why*, but that's okay.

 

It takes away the option of showing ... and my son wants to get into it, so it is significant for MY family.

 

There are LOTS of breeders who don't put this imposition on buyers. With that said, I CAN see why there are so many ridiculous cross breeds appearing, with this LR jazz.  Perhaps if they stopped it, the 'designer' mutts like Groodles or Moodles  and so on would cease to be so prevalent. **Shrugs** I dunno

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Yes.  It's absolutely useless.  I feel like shredding it it's so useless.

 

This is the first time I have had this problem.  I wasn't told about it until well after I had paid in full.  It was sprung on me when I went to collect the dog.  I paid more than $4000 .

 

I always crack up when the groodle, oodle, cavoodle people tell they "have papers for their dogs".

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17 minutes ago, Deeds said:

Yes.  It's absolutely useless.  I feel like shredding it it's so useless.

 

This is the first time I have had this problem.  I wasn't told about it until well after I had paid in full.  It was sprung on me when I went to collect the dog.  I paid more than $4000 .

 

I always crack up when the groodle, oodle, cavoodle people tell they "have papers for their dogs".

 

I think I would stand there and either DEMAND the mains register occur or get my money back .... that's just really crappy

 

What annoyed me most was asking "why" .... was told first that the stud dogs owner made it a condition of the service **eye roll** and so I asked why on that and got the "unless you are a Dogs QLD ANKC member...." etc. A non answer

 

The doodle dogs are offered with papers? :laugh: I haven't seen that yet ....but then, I dont really read them .... might have to start for the giggle

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I don't think the oodle people get papers.  I think they're so" naive" and paid so much they just think they got papers. They probably think their payment receipt constitutes papers.

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Non ANKC breeders version of ‘papers’ is just different. Sometimes it’s from an alternative registry like MDBA or a club registry or just something the breeder made up with a few generations of the pups family on it. That’s actually still a pedigree. We all have one. Many breed outside of the ANKC because, as we’re discussing here, it’s near impossible to start breeding inside of it!  
 

when something is set up to be exclusive, which the ANKC certainly is…….. you can only expect that those excluded might start doing something different. For whatever reasons, ANKC seem to think it has purchase over everything dog, but by it’s very nature, is extremely exclusive. 

Edited by Podgus
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The 2 I put on limited should not have been bred or shown as they just weren't going to be up to standard but would have been fine for dog sports. I've heard some ridiculous conditions put on bitch owners by the stud dog owners. I've known people go along with it because they consider the dog best for their bitch and no, they are not going to break them because they would never get another outside stud for their girls. You can't ask for honest breeders then ask them to be less honest to suit you.

 

Most of my pups went to other breeders or pet homes (with full papers) Only one went with a condition and that was to not get him desexed until after 2. All other pet homes were asked to wait to desex after 12 months. But no way would I present limited papers after the pup was sold and collected. That's wrong. And if I bred a more popular breed, one often used in oodle making, I would desex everything before it was sold. Bad enough worrying yourself sick about your large breed unpopular dog, I couldn't take the stress of a poodle.

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3 hours ago, Rebanne said:

The 2 I put on limited should not have been bred or shown as they just weren't going to be up to standard but would have been fine for dog sports. I've heard some ridiculous conditions put on bitch owners by the stud dog owners. I've known people go along with it because they consider the dog best for their bitch and no, they are not going to break them because they would never get another outside stud for their girls. You can't ask for honest breeders then ask them to be less honest to suit you.

 

I do agree with you - and FTR,  I am not asking the breeder to break her arrangement with the stud owner. :)  I just would like to know **why**. It annoys the :mad out of me me when people don't give an answer and try and tell me that its not something I need anyway.  

 

Whilst I do agree with you for the most part about poodles, due to the weirdest "designer" pooches I have ever seen or heard of - spoodles, moodles, cavoodles, groodles, shmoodles (dont know that one!)   I'd like to have the choice myself when I am handing over thousands of my dollars. AND - as a puppy they shouldn't be desexed until they have grown a bit. In the meantime, unscrupulous people will cross breed so the LR is a WOFTAM anyhow.

 

Someone showed me the STRANGEST cross I have seen in a while ... Shepskys' .... "The best of both worlds! These puppies have the intelligence and devotion of a German Shepherd and the luxurious fur and boundless energy of a husky"

 

O-M-G wth are they thinking. These people need to be stopped!!

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I find this topic interesting .

As a breeder i can tell you 90% of puppy enquiries when told about papers the first reply is we dont care ,we inform them off whether our pups are limited or mains but most dont listen too what there told & feel that info is a waste as they "Just want a pup" .

Puppy enquiries have changed so much in the last 15 yrs.
People dont want to phone & discuss all aspects they just want to text or email back n forth ,the important questions puppy owners should be asking are rarely asked anymore & you often get the line "well i contacted another breeder & can get xyz".
Gone are the days where researching a puppy & understanding the breeder was important .

Now days it’s which on every forum about things explained by still doesn’t sink in 

We get people wanting a “showdog” but when wanting discuss the commitment our breed requires to be shown don’t want to listen .

Our breed requires weekly work and rarely able to shown all year .

I wouldn’t prep a pet quality off my breed and wouldn’t expect another person too .
You then read post on here with the good old chestnut afraid off competition which often shows they have no clue what there talking about just read other posts off sour grapes & follow like sheep in repeating things .
There is alot more to showing than just turning up with a dog to be competition & show people DO want competition .
I see people at shows most weekends especially new who have waited brought from a great supportive breeder or breeder with a good network to help  ,sold a cracker off a puppy & really enjoy showing .
I have seen those turn up no support,sold an obvious non show potential puppy & walk away as they couldnt win .
Then you get those who are serial whingers when it comes to show but infact never really showed themselves 
 

Limited absolutely has its place & i would run fast from any breeder that cant grasp the concept or believes everything should be sold on mains .I also have little respect for people who reply to posts without giving educational info .
In Victoria for example breeders are also bound by State Government law which covers many aspects of breeding & what is prohibited, justifiable  especially with hereditary disease that can be tested ,the status . 
Code of Practice for the Breeding of Animals with Heritable Defects that Cause Disease | Codes of Practice | Domestic Animals Act | Animal Welfare Victoria | Livestock and animals | Agriculture Victoria
Limited registered puppies can be mismarks, no testicles ,bad mouth, incorrect ear set or tail set ,white Boxers can only be limited register , DNA results aka affected,clear,carrier, penalty handed out due to disciplinary action ,stud dog restrictions ,incorrect coat texture ,NBT 
Limited can be upgraded if a pup turns out with the breeders approval and why communication with a breeder you is great .

I know a lot off dogs who where upgraded at 10 months plus after owners decided too show and the breeder agreed .

The only time it may be an issue is on breeds where coat work from a pup is so important and owners decided to clip off or clip compared to hand stripping .

 

 

We get weekly bulk emails where 10 or more breeders are added wanting main reg dog to maybe show .

All the breeders they have added breed for different things ,different conditions but as the person is just bulk emailing it’s sad to think they haven’t built a relationship to move forward and understand the breed .

Your best mentor moving forward is the person who has experienced mistakes,done breedings that didn’t click or come across issues that experience can only gain .

We monthly get people buying dogs from a breeder on mains and want to show and call us for help with coat work .

There breeders can’t help as they have never showed or done coat work .

 

We have over the years asked those wanting a show potential pup to come spend the day at a show where things could be discussed .

For some breeds showing is much more expensive buying the right gear for prepping,coat work and tools .

We also make sure people are fully informed off there outlay before committing,but alas most never want to sit at the show learning ,they tell us there too busy LOL .

 

 

Having a breeder who will tell you why this pup has potential,what it’s pro n cons are even at 6/7/8 weeks is so important .

 

All good breeders have had litters with amazing breeding that just didn’t click .

No litter is a guarantee off the outcome you hope on paper .

 

Our pups are the same price mains or limited .

 





 

Edited by Dogsfevr
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It is amazing to me that LR could receive what is essentially carte blanche approval when one does not know circumstances and those who display this type of attitude certainly don't get my respect. In my latest experience I can only surmise at the reason. I DID ask ... and was even specific - I asked if the pups were not up to show standard if thats why they were reduced to LR. I got the following NON answer: "Without a doubt many show quality puppies go to pet homes on the limited register (including this litter). THAT did not answer the very specific question about the pup I was enquiring about. I did not receive the courtesy of a truthful answer. In paying five thousand dollars or more, I expect a tad better than that. No worries - I will give my money elsewhere. And take my time to find the right one.

 

If the dogs are NOT show quality, that should be mentioned from the get go so I can walk away. If I wanted a dog without a pedigree, I could go get a rescue and save a ton of money.

 

Further, these dogs with carte blanche LR pedigrees (or none) are UNDOUBTEDLY primarily the ones used in the production of the designer doodly pooches. 

 

I was involved in showing horses for many years in various disciplines - Led breed classes, Hacks, Dressage, Cross Country and Show Jumping and while our successes were many, my experiences with people looking down their nose that my Cremello mare who cost me a big $180 (thats a rarity!) takes Purple and gets the Best in Show, but the $20,000 Andalusian gets Green and Runner up and O-M-G the tantrum from the owner! She stormed out, swearing loudly and foully, castigating ME for bringing my "cheap nag" into the ring, packed up her bat'n'ball and went home. The horse happened to be superb. I spent a LOT of time and money to make sure of that. This was not a one off. And the ridiculous politics! :scold: I do not believe for a second that showing dogs is any different - its the PEOPLE who are the problem, and they won't be any different whether its horses, dogs, cats or Llamas when it should be about the animal.

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In my case all the litter was "show quality" sold at show quality prices but all the pups were sold on LR .  The only 2 sold on MR were the ones kept by the breeder that were definitely going to be shown.

 

Putting the rest on LR took away the option of showing if one decided to show later on.  Both parents were champion show dogs with a lot of imports in the lines.  The breeder has been breeding and showing for many years.  Not a BYB.

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32 minutes ago, Deeds said:

In my case all the litter was "show quality" sold at show quality prices but all the pups were sold on LR .  The only 2 sold on MR were the ones kept by the breeder that were definitely going to be shown.

 

Putting the rest on LR took away the option of showing if one decided to show later on.  Both parents were champion show dogs with a lot of imports in the lines.  The breeder has been breeding and showing for many years.  Not a BYB.

 

Makes you wonder about motivation, hey Deeds? When they refuse to tell you why - well, you can only surmise. I dont understand the *point* of breeding a pedigreed, show quality dog and then stop it from competing by refusing to give you the necessary paper to do so. That's why I can only come to one conclusion. 

 

Oh well. 

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53 minutes ago, Deeds said:

In my case all the litter was "show quality" sold at show quality prices but all the pups were sold on LR . 

 

 

 Sure some people may charge more for the "show" potential pups but it costs the same to breed and raise a litter of pups whatever their quality. My pups sold for the same price regardless.

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1 hour ago, Rebanne said:

 Sure some people may charge more for the "show" potential pups but it costs the same to breed and raise a litter of pups whatever their quality. My pups sold for the same price regardless.

 

Do you happen to know why show quality dogs are put onto a LR - if it costs the same to produce the pups no matter what? I'm not looking for an argument, truly not. I just do not understand the reasoning and it blows my mind not to know :noidea:

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