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Is There Any Advantage in Having A Pedigree Listed On The Limited Register


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3 minutes ago, Deeds said:

Do the 2 large boned breed dogs include an Irish Wolfhound as one of the 2.

Wouldn't it be the Labrador, or Golden Retriever and the Standard Poodle?  

 

Check this out .... (the worlds gone mad!)

  • Irish Wolfhound x Black Russian Terrier mix = Black Russian Wolfhound Terrier
  • Irish Wolfhound x German Wirehaired Pointer mix = German Wirehaired Pointing Wolfhound
  • Irish Wolfhound x Giant Schnauzer mix = Giant Irish Wolf Schnauzer
  • Irish Wolfhound x Giant Schnauzer mix = Irish Wolf Schnauzer
  • Irish Wolfhound x Great Dane mix = Irish Dane
  • Irish Wolfhound x Great Pyrenees mix = Great Wolfhound
  • Irish Wolfhound x Greyhound mix = Irish Wolf Greyhound
  • Irish Wolfhound x Mastiff mix = Irish Mastiff
  • Irish Wolfhound x Miniature Schnauzer mix = Miniature Irish Wolf Schnauzer
  • Irish Wolfhound x Poodle mix = Irish Wolfoodle
  • Irish Wolfhound x Siberian Husky mix = Irish Wolfsky
  • Irish Wolfhound x Staffordshire Bull Terrier mix = Staffy Bull Wolfhound
  • Irish Wolfhound x Standard Schnauzer mix = Standard Irish Wolf Schnauzer
  • Irish Wolfhound x Tibetan Mastiff mix = Tibetan Wolfhound

List of Irish Wolfhound Mix Breed Dogs (dogbreedinfo.com)

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28 minutes ago, OzzieLioness said:

 

 

I think breeders are seriously overreaching with controlling every aspect of something YOU now own. They are happy enough to take your money ....  If you think the person isn't going to be good to the puppy you bred, either sell it without papers, or just dont sell it. 

Ah, there’s the rub.

If it is registered, you are not supposed to sell it without it’s papers!

also, there are regulations that make the breeder obliged  to register ALL the pups in a litter at the same time.

There are “road blocks” at almost every corner put there by the Kennel Club, the Government, PETA or the RSPCA

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42 minutes ago, OzzieLioness said:

Are they corgis? Such odd lil dudes LOL

 

 

yes the caption for them said they are corgis

 

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5 hours ago, asal said:

 

 

what gets me is the constant assumption people who breed to supply pets  are the ones supplying the worst affected puppies.   There was a chap at Greystanes who was absolutely a puppy farmer breeding for the pet market only.  I happened to meet him when a friend went there to see some puppies for sale. he had Shih tzu's and Pugs.   as an ankc member I was pretty interested to see what a puppy farmer keeps as his breeders.   NOT one of his Shih Tzus had hernia"s.  As for his pugs, on average they were twice the size of a show bred pug, all had longer faces than the show ones and he explained, the smaller the mum the smaller the litter and the more exaggerated the shorter face the more chance of whelping problems so he had been selecting for longer muzzles for many generations over many years.   Frankly I liked his dogs .  His Shih Tzu's were main register ankc to my surprise as were I think all of his pugs as he had began as an ankc member but decided to select away from show traits that interfered with their breeding and health potential.   ( should add this time was some 20 years ago now, no idea if he is still a member or breeder today)

 

 decades before I had made the same decision when my brother and I bought our first ankc reg'd chihuahua's, from an ankc member who believed the trend to smaller and smaller females was a disaster for the breed, after learning her reasons I agreed with her , but its dangerous to say such things at a show, and makes you nervous of speaking out, so those who do not agree tend to feel pretty isolated.   those who do not walk to the "ethical" "responsible" dead end show only drum tend to not mix with fellow members and keep a low profile to avoid persecution.

 

That began in the early 90's and continues to this day.

 

only today i learned a long time friend, although still and ankc member has cancelled her dogzonline membership because last year she was inspected by the rspca and the first thing the inspector told her, I know your an ankc member because your a member of dogzonline! 

 

she felt so threatened soon as the inspector left, she logged in and cancelled her membership of dogzonline fearing to remain a member would bring more inspections.   I KID you not.

 

Thats pretty shocking to find they are surfing here and targeting us from being members of here?

 

perhaps a good reason for never using your real name ?

 

 

The RSPCA and local councils have been using many means for many years .

,State body advertising in breeders directory,Royal Show catalogues have/had address details ,local paper for sale ads when that was the main means,gumtree and now even more easier facebook .

You name it they use it .

For many just heading to a dogshow and seeing all the ad details sign written .

Nothing is really a secret anymore and I’m pretty sure Dogs NSW no longer list litters due to this fact .

 

 

Edited by Dogsfevr
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42 minutes ago, Deeds said:

Do the 2 large boned breed dogs include an Irish Wolfhound as one of the 2.

 

42 minutes ago, Deeds said:

 

Not Irish Wolfhound.

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7 minutes ago, JRG said:

Ah, there’s the rub.

If it is registered, you are not supposed to sell it without it’s papers!

also, there are regulations that make the breeder obliged  to register ALL the pups in a litter at the same time.

There are “road blocks” at almost every corner put there by the Kennel Club, the Government, PETA or the RSPCA

Not really ... it is not anyone BUT the breeder who chooses to put the dog on limited register.

 

Then you have this ..... (which is what I was talking about) 

 

A dog may be transferred from the Limited Register to the Main Register if: Application for such transfer is lodged on the required form ; Both the breeder and the registered owner of the dog make written application for such transfer on the required form

 

This I looked up ...

 

A breeder does not need to register their puppies for 28 days, from the  .... so thats a lot of thinking time to see if they even want to register the litter and sell with papers. 

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3 hours ago, asal said:

spotted this photo of it said, two purebred  litter mates  so still quite a bit of genetic diversity on display here

 

 

image.thumb.png.dd17dc2c6f67c715ae7500f2c0b6ee5e.png

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even stupid me knows the long haired gene exits in Corgis

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3 hours ago, asal said:

spotted this photo of it said, two purebred  litter mates  so still quite a bit of genetic diversity on display here

 

 

image.thumb.png.dd17dc2c6f67c715ae7500f2c0b6ee5e.png

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I do get exactly what you mean, asal. I've seen large litters where the bitch is a short coat and sire is a long and some will be one, and some the other. Or the whole lot could be just the one type. It's a genetic lottery really, isn't it? The famous Forrest Gump line applies I think. to puppies especially " My mom always said life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."

 

Asal, are you into Quarter Horses? Just wondering :)

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34 minutes ago, OzzieLioness said:

 

I do get exactly what you mean, asal. I've seen large litters where the bitch is a short coat and sire is a long and some will be one, and some the other. Or the whole lot could be just the one type. It's a genetic lottery really, isn't it? The famous Forrest Gump line applies I think. to puppies especially " My mom always said life was like a box of chocolates. You never know what you're gonna get."

 

Asal, are you into Quarter Horses? Just wondering :)

 

 

I watched them arrive and corner the market, anything American just had to be better than what us second rate Aussie's had. To me it was the great australian cringe at its best.

 

I watched the ASH society form to try to save our stock horses that had made Australian horses famous as the Waler.

 

I watched as vested interests classified qh's as ASH

 

I watched vested interests decide the way to promote the arabian as the "living work of art for those who have everything" instead of the incredible tough, sound, family friendly breed it had been for centauries and handed that market on a platter to all the other breeds, the show scene opting for the head in the air, tail in the air epitome of the "Mad Arab"  

 

Yet one of the founders of the "waler"  along with  the english tb, timor pony and many others was what? bloody old colonial Arabians!   

 

Been interesting times

 

Edited by asal
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Breeds and their history has always been of great interest to me

 

The qh is quite remarkable, so many lines so many families, pure TB, Three Bars, Noholome(IMP AUS) etc thousands of them were Stud Book Thoroughbreds, pure Arab, Janus for example was actually a pure Arabian(but its a secret), king ranch, etc ,   and all the mixes never had to "grade up" pass inspection and your a PUREBRED QUARTER HORSE and their brand marketing is a lesson to all.

 

America has a corner on the marketing industry

 

Doubt me,  have u seen the movie "The Big Short" n the money end got away with it, none in the US went to jail, the banks bailed out, always will.  im told its going to happen again, just dont know when of course, history just keeps repeating, financially and invasionally sadly, hitler must be so proud of putin

 

Edited by asal
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I think a Limited Register pedigree does have value.

 

When I look for a puppy, I decide on a breed based on the traits that suit my lifestyle and, even more importantly, those that wouldn’t suit my lifestyle. An ANKC pedigree, Main or Limited Register, tells me that the breeder (and previous generations on breeders) have signed legally meaningful documents that this litter of puppies has been bred from a specified pair of dogs of the breed I want. 

 

Wen I look at non-ANKC puppies advertised on the internet, I often see obvious crossbreds advertised as purebreds. Many will be lovely puppies that grow into lovely dogs, but some of them may have inherited the traits that I’m trying to avoid from the unidentified parent.

 

Another advantage of a pedigree is that it gives me the opportunity to google parents, grandparents and breeders of the puppy and see any successes. I remember my delight when I discovered that the litter sister of my German Shepherd’s grandsire was a successful alpine search and rescue dog in Switzerland. I also follow the show careers of my Brittany’s relatives in the US with interest. (Westminster, yay!)

 

Finally, I can often check hip scores of the relatives of a puppy on ORCHID. Good hip scores in related dogs aren’t a guarantee of good hips, but they do shift the odds. 

 

Edited by DogsAndTheMob
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1 hour ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

I think a Limited Register pedigree does have value.

 

When I look for a puppy, I decide on a breed based on the traits that suit my lifestyle and, even more importantly, those that wouldn’t suit my lifestyle. An ANKC pedigree, Main or Limited Register, tells me that the breeder (and previous generations on breeders) have signed legally meaningful documents that this litter of puppies has been bred from a specified pair of dogs of the breed I want. 

 

Wen I look at non-ANKC puppies advertised on the internet, I often see obvious crossbreds advertised as purebreds. Many will be lovely puppies that grow into lovely dogs, but some of them may have inherited the traits that I’m trying to avoid from the unidentified parent.

 

Another advantage of a pedigree is that it gives me the opportunity to google parents, grandparents and breeders of the puppy and see any successes. I remember my delight when I discovered that the litter sister of my German Shepherd’s grandsire was a successful alpine search and rescue dog in Switzerland. I also follow the show careers of my Brittany’s relatives in the US with interest. (Westminster, yay!)

 

Finally, I can often check hip scores of the relatives of a puppy on ORCHID. Good hip scores in related dogs aren’t a guarantee of good hips, but they do shift the odds. 

 

Me too.  In fact I wouldn't buy a dog that didn't come with its pedigree be that Limited or Mains.

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14 hours ago, asal said:

Breeds and their history has always been of great interest to me

 

The qh is quite remarkable, so many lines so many families, pure TB, Three Bars, Noholome(IMP AUS) etc thousands of them were Stud Book Thoroughbreds, pure Arab, Janus for example was actually a pure Arabian(but its a secret), king ranch, etc ,   and all the mixes never had to "grade up" pass inspection and your a PUREBRED QUARTER HORSE and their brand marketing is a lesson to all.

 

America has a corner on the marketing industry

 

Doubt me,  have u seen the movie "The Big Short" n the money end got away with it, none in the US went to jail, the banks bailed out, always will.  im told its going to happen again, just dont know when of course, history just keeps repeating, financially and invasionally sadly, hitler must be so proud of putin

 

I don't doubt you for a second! The different breed associations all have their dirt. If it's not the Americans with a strangle hold on it, then it's the British.

 

It will never cease to do my head in that the TB Association insist on a "natural" mating that also must be witnessed and a Stat Dec made to acknowledge it! Every other breed, to the best of my knowledge allows AI .... but not the TB's. I don't understand it and never will - why bother doing the blood tests? It's just more hoops for breeders to jump through and more costs. It's little wonder the gene pool for them in Australia is beyond ridiculous. The costs in bringing a stud to stand for a season is insane! That is probably why it will never change .... it's all about the money, as you've said! 

 

It's a toss up for me which breed I love the best. TB's, of course are close to my heart! But I had the sweetest Cremello Arabian mare whose big blue eyes would just melt me every time, even if she was being naughty! :)  I bought a Morgan cross who was a blood bay (one of the best coats I've ever seen!)  for one of my daughters and she was a darlin'. Had a mare that was an 18 HH gentle giant (Planet Kingdom bloodline - got her with papers for $240! They said she was lame - and I guess in a paddock full of rock, your FEET would get bruised too! :laugh: That was the buy of my life!)  One of the breeds I've never had is a Quarter horse. Just the way it was - I never came across one that needed rescuing ... but they are stunning that's for sure.

 

Can you imagine the upset and scandal if horse breeders shoved their foals for sale into a limited register?  :laugh:

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On 26/03/2022 at 6:33 PM, OzzieLioness said:

I think a fairer solution, if these people are not scared of the competition (remember, I've never had a reason given - just the "because I said" crap) would be to have it a contractual agreement that should the pup grow to be a show quality animal, it can then be moved to Mains. This could be 'judged' by a mutually agreed judge down the track.

They don't need to make contracts because this is already allowable.  Dogs on LR can be upgraded to MR (provided they haven't been flagged as "not to be upgraded") and all that's required is the breeder's consent and signature on a form.  It's done often with both entire and neuter dogs if their owners express interest in showing and the breeder deems the dog worthy of putting into the ring -- some breeders will do it regardless of the dog's quality, just to encourage the owner.

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2 hours ago, Princess Fru Fru said:

They don't need to make contracts because this is already allowable.  Dogs on LR can be upgraded to MR (provided they haven't been flagged as "not to be upgraded") and all that's required is the breeder's consent and signature on a form.  It's done often with both entire and neuter dogs if their owners express interest in showing and the breeder deems the dog worthy of putting into the ring -- some breeders will do it regardless of the dog's quality, just to encourage the owner.

If a written contract is not in place, then it may never happen. I already know it is allowable.

 

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Does the breeder charge extra to change to MR from LR if the purchaser bought pet only and didn't pay for show quality in the first place.

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40 minutes ago, Deeds said:

Does the breeder charge extra to change to MR from LR if the purchaser bought pet only and didn't pay for show quality in the first place.

Depends on the breeder. You might be asked to pay the fees involved. 

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21 hours ago, Rebanne said:

Depends on the breeder. You might be asked to pay the fees involved. 

Agree  - depends on the breeder.   For one of mine, the breeder already made the decision and decided to put the dog on MR .. I think in the hope that he would be shown, since I had a mentor available that the breeder knew.  No extra charge for me.    For the bitch, it was a while after I had bought her  . on LR, because that was all I needed.  Again the breeder was happy to upgrade, and the only charge for me was the ANKC affiliate office charge for updating the pedigree .. very small or none .. can't remember.

 

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