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Find me some lines within breeds maybe


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Still a few years away from the next dog, but trying to settle on something sooner rather than later this time. 

 

What would sell me in a heartbeat is a Finnish lapphund or Samoyed with a short and manageable coat. Honestly, I am having coat PTSD at the moment. My 14yo lappie has decided he's not doing grooming anymore and will scream and cry about it. Probably it hurts more than it used to. The whole household is traumatised by my efforts to groom my elderly dog.

 

That aside, what we want in our next dog is something a lot like our lapphund's temperament. Very sociable, but gentle, easy going, extremely tolerant, non-aggressive, pretty steady, comfortable in a crowd and with novelty. Before everyone says that's all in socialisation, it is TO A DEGREE, but I will never have my Portuguese podengo at home in a busy cafe or cool with random strangers wanting to pat her. It's just not who she is. She also really really likes to explore and requires significant bribery to, say, quietly stay put while I am filming a short segment for television or something (I will probably never attempt that with her ever again!) Let's assume I am a good trainer, I understand how to raise and socialise a dog, and I am looking for something that will be suited to what I want rather than spending a lot of work shaping what I want in a dog that's not really suited to it.

 

Secondarily, I trail run and do flyball and would love another dog to join me in this, so ideally it can handle 2 hours of trail running in the summer without keeling over. The pod is possibly the best trail running companion you could have, but she has exceptional heat tolerance.  

 

We are NOT gun dog people. We have learned that much. We do not like being knocked around by big, goofy dogs with excessive exuberance for life. The other half is campaigning pretty fiercely for a Landseer ECT, but I have vetoed repeatedly on the grounds of too much coat. He won't look after it. I start hyperventilating when I imagine maintaining a big coat on a bigger dog than the lappie. Other half wants a Berner, but has also been vetoed on the grounds of too much coat and health problems. 

 

Additional considerations: It needs to be biddable and with a tendency to range close when off leash. The pod is stressful to manage off leash because she doesn't get lost and thinks nothing of being 400m away from us. We have worked HARD to tie an imaginary line to her and very proud of how good she is off leash, but I can't do two like that at once. I need something that is naturally a bit easier. It's probably fair to say we are spitz and hound people. We like our dogs spirited and opinionated and sassy, but can be convinced to cooperate. We are quite good at getting traditionally "stubborn" breeds to hang off our every word, but we don't want to work hard for it this time. Something a bit easier would be welcome. 

 

We have ruled out:

* Spinone - the wet beard. OMG, no. 

* CCR - probably ruled out, too big and boisterous. 

* MRR - that breed is a hot mess, tragically

* Smooth collies - word on the street is this breed has a high incidence of serious injuries pertaining to structure. Not looking for an argument on that one. Let's just assume it's not a risk I'm willing to take with a flyball and trail running hopeful.

* Whippet - I am concerned it's going to go over a cliff after a wallaby. We live in that kind of area.

* I badly want an Ibizan, but I'm not keen on being pulled down a steep and rocky trail by a dog that can jump 2m vertically without even preparing. Also, our property backs onto bushland and wallabies visit the fenceline. Any dog that is capable of jumping our playground fencing and might do it to chase wildlife is a no.

* "The right" Kelpie/BC/Aussie/Koolie - sure, but I'm gonna need breeder recommendations. I'm not looking for doing a lot of leg work to find something special.

* Brittany - too predatory

* Yakutian Laika - I am disbelieving of the people that keep telling me the coat is not that bad. It looks as dense as a lappie coat to me. *cue hyperventilation*

* B&T Coonhound - I fear too persistent in following scents for off leash trail time, and I don't want to be tethered to a dog that big on some of our trails.

* Bracco Italiano - seems to be not really settled enough for what we are looking for. Questionable off leash reliability. 

 

Current contenders:

* Buhund - yet to meet one

* Cirneco - not really, but lordee I covet the racy little primitive hound that probably is less breakable than a whippet.

* Alaskan husky - if only there was anyone at all breeding them much. Spoke at length to someone who mushes with them in Oz and we agreed it would be a good fit, but they were only breeding for themselves and didn't know anyone else who was breeding them. 

* Some kind of very thoughtfully and carefully bred mixed breed.

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Posted (edited)

Ruling out those mentioned above the Dalmatian was one that sprung to mind. 
Pity we don’t have Entlebucher or Appenzeller 

Edited by Podgus
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Dalmatian is not exactly ruled out but not exactly on the shortlist at the moment either. It MUST be a LUA dally. I have found 2 breeders that breed LUA dallies, but yet to actually meet one of their dogs. I'm really concerned about Dalmatian temperament. It seems there are some nice ones out there and a lot of anxious messes. 

 

I don't know much about Lakenois. I find Belgians in general a bit handler sensitive for my liking, so haven't really looked into them.

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Posted (edited)

I saw a lovely Elkhound service dog training for Rally just before COVID. It was so attentive to its owner/handler and I don’t think it had as much coat as some show dogs.

 

Am I “preaching to the choir” on that one? Are Elkhounds a breed you’ve had in the past?

Edited by DogsAndTheMob
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I don't think a Sealyham would be able to keep up on runs. If they can't trot at a nice 5:30 km, they are going to have problems.

 

I've thought about Elkies, but I'm not convinced on the coat. It still seems pretty dense to me. Although I guess it looks a lot easier to get the undercoat out than it is why my lappie. Do you happen to know the breeder of the one you saw?

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German Pinscher?

 

I have one of these:

http://www.standardschnauzer.com.au/ which are said once have been the same breed.

Temperamentally, they would suit you. Stable, trainable, but sassy. Tolerant, but protective of home territory.

 

The coat even on the Schnauzer is surprisingly easly to manage. Unlike a mini, it doesn't really matter if the coat gets long, so long as the eyes and under the tail is trimmed. I won't have cattle dogs or shelties due to the shedding / coat management, but the schnauzer is fine. I'm happy to clip occassionaly, though. The only thing that you won't like is the beard, but I don't find it that much work. 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Selkie said:

 

 

The coat even on the Schnauzer is surprisingly easly to manage. Unlike a mini, it doesn't really matter if the coat gets long, so long as the eyes and under the tail is trimmed. I won't have cattle dogs or shelties due to the shedding / coat management, but the schnauzer is fine. I'm happy to clip occassionaly, though. The only thing that you won't like is the beard, but I don't find it that much work. 

 

 

This part is totally wrong info in every possible way & yes as someone been involved in both sizes for nearly 40 yrs .
Std Schnauzers need there coat worked on regularly if maintaining the harsh coat (rolling) or still clipping every 8 weeks .
A coat not worked on will die/blow & fall out .They are a grooming breed .
You may not grooom yours but please dont give the wrong info out on a breed that does require grooming regularly .


Elkhounds have a very easy coat ,at coat blowtime just buy yourself a cheap hair blaster off Ebay & easy peasy .

I know you have done this post before & i still find it hard to figure out what nature the household wants to live with as the breeds listed each time are so randomly different & the reasons for then crossing them off often strange .

And at the end off the day a dog is still only as good as the training .i now Podongos overseas who tick everyone you want 


 

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1 hour ago, Dogsfevr said:

This part is totally wrong info in every possible way & yes as someone been involved in both sizes for nearly 40 yrs .
Std Schnauzers need there coat worked on regularly if maintaining the harsh coat (rolling) or still clipping every 8 weeks .
A coat not worked on will die/blow & fall out .They are a grooming breed .
You may not grooom yours but please dont give the wrong info out on a breed that does require grooming regularly .


Elkhounds have a very easy coat ,at coat blowtime just buy yourself a cheap hair blaster off Ebay & easy peasy .

I know you have done this post before & i still find it hard to figure out what nature the household wants to live with as the breeds listed each time are so randomly different & the reasons for then crossing them off often strange .

And at the end off the day a dog is still only as good as the training .i now Podongos overseas who tick everyone you want 


 

 

And what is the problem with the coat blowing? They shed a little. Might get a bit fluffy, which many owners love. It does not affect the wellbeing of the dog, so long as you take reasonable care. Many schnauzer owners allow their dogs long coats in the winter.

 

A schnauzer does not NEED to be kept in a short schnauzer clip, any more than a poodle NEEDS to be kept in a continental clip.

 

I did not say never trim or clip. I did NOT say no grooming. I'm just saying that it's not like keeping an oodle that will matt quickly if not groomed, and that I personally find the occasional clip far less onerous than regularly brushing out a fluffy dog. I've looked after long stock coat GSD - I'd far prefer the Schnauzer!

 

The OP mentions BC and Aussies as an option - I'd far prefer the schnauzer groom than one of those!

 

They are meant to be hardy all-round farm dogs. I suspect mine, with her coat currently long, looks far closer to the original farm dogs.

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45 minutes ago, Selkie said:

 

And what is the problem with the coat blowing? They shed a little. Might get a bit fluffy, which many owners love. It does not affect the wellbeing of the dog, so long as you take reasonable care. Many schnauzer owners allow their dogs long coats in the winter.

 

A schnauzer does not NEED to be kept in a short schnauzer clip, any more than a poodle NEEDS to be kept in a continental clip.

 

I did not say never trim or clip. I did NOT say no grooming. I'm just saying that it's not like keeping an oodle that will matt quickly if not groomed, and that I personally find the occasional clip far less onerous than regularly brushing out a fluffy dog. I've looked after long stock coat GSD - I'd far prefer the Schnauzer!

 

The OP mentions BC and Aussies as an option - I'd far prefer the schnauzer groom than one of those!

 

They are meant to be hardy all-round farm dogs. I suspect mine, with her coat currently long, looks far closer to the original farm dogs.

Selkie a blown coat Will mat hence why your advice is wrong .They shed and shed within the dead coat ,I have dealt with many matted blown top coats and it’s not nice .

There coats where never meant to be long ,a blown coat is a non productive coat ,there coat for there job was maintained to keep harshness,weather proof and dirt to come off easy .
 

 

I groom on average 10 plus Schnauzers a week,I roll giants,stds and Minis .Shown Minis and Standards .

Spay coats can alter texture ,a blown coat not worked on increases undercoat which can take over the good coat so coats left to get shaggy will long term loss there productive coats especially the neck region which often grows back lighter and thicker when nothing done with it it also lacks shine 

The coat can become work if not doing it regular  and getting it back is work and often needs pulling right back .

 

 

 

 

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A well bred Dalmatian will trot and trot forever and should have a lovely temperament. As much as I’d prefer LUA there is just not enough genetics around to throw the baby out with the bath water. There are other considerations as well. Be warned. They shed twice a year. 6 months in the Spring and 6 months in the Autumn. 

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3 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:


I know you have done this post before & i still find it hard to figure out what nature the household wants to live with as the breeds listed each time are so randomly different & the reasons for then crossing them off often strange .
 

It’s really not very complicated. I want a short-haired lapphund, I can’t get one, so I’m looking for the next best thing. I have tossed around a lot of ideas because I can’t get what I want, and that’s why there have been some diverse choices. I’m actually asking for lines this time rather than breeds per se. I’m more interested in what the lines are like than what the breed is on the whole. If you don’t get me, then don’t bother replying. 

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An Irish Terrier with a hard coat.  They don't have huge beards and would definitely be able to keep up with the exercise etc

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23 minutes ago, The Spotted Devil said:

A well bred Dalmatian will trot and trot forever and should have a lovely temperament. As much as I’d prefer LUA there is just not enough genetics around to throw the baby out with the bath water. There are other considerations as well. Be warned. They shed twice a year. 6 months in the Spring and 6 months in the Autumn. 

Yeah, I get that, but I find it really hard ethically to commit to a breed that has a fixable genetic health issue that the breed club seems to have no interest in fixing. I wasn’t even allowed to ask on the Australian Dalmatians FB group for breeders that are breeding LUA dogs, because apparently it’s too controversial. What could possibly be controversial about selectively breeding healthier dogs? So maybe I have to throw the baby out with the bath water on that one out of principle. 

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8 hours ago, Deeds said:

An Irish Terrier with a hard coat.  They don't have huge beards and would definitely be able to keep up with the exercise etc

a friend of mine has an Irish Terrier, he is so fit and keeps up with him where ever he goes (he hikes) such a happy dog with all the 'smarts' of the terrier breed

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We have a few around here as well.  Nice dogs.  Don't require as much grooming as an Airedale because of their hard wiry coat.

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