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Find me some lines within breeds maybe


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22 hours ago, corvus said:

Yeah, I get that, but I find it really hard ethically to commit to a breed that has a fixable genetic health issue that the breed club seems to have no interest in fixing. I wasn’t even allowed to ask on the Australian Dalmatians FB group for breeders that are breeding LUA dogs, because apparently it’s too controversial. What could possibly be controversial about selectively breeding healthier dogs? So maybe I have to throw the baby out with the bath water on that one out of principle. 


Given that some LUA lines seem to have a higher incidence of deafness - which can’t be genetically tested - I’d be cautious too. My Dally is 15.5 and avoiding a high purine diet hasn’t been an issue. One of the cheapest dogs, health wise, that I’ve ever had. 

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Posted (edited)

I re read your OP a couple of times this morning because the one breed I think really ticks your boxes is the Standard or Miniature Poodle depending on the size you want. 
Coat seems to be the only con, and there’s no shame in shaving a poodle down to its knickers every 6-8 weeks. Something you could learn to do yourself. Everything off with a 7 blade (you have basically have a dog that is the shape of a Doberman underneath) 

 

also the PBGV. Again coat, but  hand stripped, just raked through and kept a bit rustic or clipped, it’s not a difficult coat 

 

and if you’re open to mixes, the ‘Labradoodles’ with the straight  (shorter often wiry textured and low maintenance) coats are some of the very nicest dogs I’ve ever handled 

Edited by Podgus
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On 06/05/2022 at 6:38 PM, corvus said:

It’s really not very complicated. I want a short-haired lapphund, I can’t get one, so I’m looking for the next best thing. I have tossed around a lot of ideas because I can’t get what I want, and that’s why there have been some diverse choices. I’m actually asking for lines this time rather than breeds per se. I’m more interested in what the lines are like than what the breed is on the whole. If you don’t get me, then don’t bother replying. 

The breeds your considering have very little options off lines as you would now from your research. 

My post was based on the fact you listed Bracco & elimated for not being settled enough but seemed quite happy to consider a breed that suffers from amyloidosis & requires yearly testing & kills young dogs yet only want a Lua Dalmatian ,so yes i find your choices & elimatinating factors odd .

But as you say dont bother replying so i will happily take that route  

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Posted (edited)
On 06/05/2022 at 8:46 PM, corvus said:

Yeah, I get that, but I find it really hard ethically to commit to a breed that has a fixable genetic health issue that the breed club seems to have no interest in fixing. I wasn’t even allowed to ask on the Australian Dalmatians FB group for breeders that are breeding LUA dogs, because apparently it’s too controversial. What could possibly be controversial about selectively breeding healthier dogs? So maybe I have to throw the baby out with the bath water on that one out of principle. 

 just ask can you have the puppy profiled first. problem solved

 

my goodness, googled and cant believe what they refused to continue?

 

https://thebark.com/content/dna-test-helps-dalmatians

 

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10 hours ago, Podgus said:

I re read your OP a couple of times this morning because the one breed I think really ticks your boxes is the Standard or Miniature Poodle depending on the size you want. 
Coat seems to be the only con, and there’s no shame in shaving a poodle down to its knickers every 6-8 weeks. Something you could learn to do yourself. Everything off with a 7 blade (you have basically have a dog that is the shape of a Doberman underneath) 

 

also the PBGV. Again coat, but  hand stripped, just raked through and kept a bit rustic or clipped, it’s not a difficult coat 

 

and if you’re open to mixes, the ‘Labradoodles’ with the straight  (shorter often wiry textured and low maintenance) coats are some of the very nicest dogs I’ve ever handled 

 

so its not just me though poodle perfect . only needs shearing when due n no loose coat

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7 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

The breeds your considering have very little options off lines as you would now from your research. 

My post was based on the fact you listed Bracco & elimated for not being settled enough but seemed quite happy to consider a breed that suffers from amyloidosis & requires yearly testing & kills young dogs yet only want a Lua Dalmatian ,so yes i find your choices & elimatinating factors odd .

But as you say dont bother replying so i will happily take that route  

I’m not settled on breed. 

 

What breed am I considering that suffers from amyloidosis and needs yearly testing? Why would you assume I know that given what else I’ve said?? :laugh:

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I can clip and have the equipment. I’m not sure I want to have to, though. I find poodles a bit maddeningly bouncy, but I have met some I enjoyed and this is exactly where suggesting some lines would be really helpful. 

 

It’s not just labs I’m not real fond of, and in some ways they are one of my favourites in the gun dog group. They are not as soft as some of the other gundog breeds. I think there are several things bothering us about gun dogs. Aside from the fact our youngest dog hates them. Too big, too boisterous, range too far, too adapted to cold, too busy, intimidatingly active… I’ve considered Vs or a spaniel, and met some CCR and the spin and a bunch of Brittanies. We just seem to come away from each feeling that they’re just not really our thing for various reasons. 

 

Hadn’t really thought about Irish terriers. I guess I haven’t really come across them. I will take a look. I guess terriers aren’t the obvious place to look for very dog-social candidates! 

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3 hours ago, asal said:

 just ask can you have the puppy profiled first. problem solved

 

my goodness, googled and cant believe what they refused to continue?

 

https://thebark.com/content/dna-test-helps-dalmatians

 

I’m just having a bit of a crisis about it. What business does an animal welfare scientist specialising in dogs have buying a breed with a genetic disorder that the breed club is not committed to ending despite having the means to do so? Sometimes I think it’s okay if I just get a LUA dog, and other times I think about deafness and I wonder if that is any more acceptable just because it’s not as predictable. It’s not like we know nothing about it. It matters because I am an expert in the field and I get asked about what dogs I have and why for public audiences sometimes. I push looking for dogs that are healthy and sound first and foremost, and I don’t want that message undermined if it looks like I don’t practice what I preach. Not that the health issues in Dalmatians are widely known, even by people that own Dalmatians. 

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9 hours ago, corvus said:

 I find poodles a bit maddeningly bouncy

That surprises me. I’m told that one of the challenges with training many standard poodles is their tendency to think twice before they do anything. If poodles are too bouncy then you’re correct to rule out most gun dogs… and probably most herding dogs too.


I’m not sure that a border collie would suit you. I love the breed and have a fairly high tolerance for dogs’ annoying traits, but I doubt if I’ll have another one. Sadly, I’ve seen increasing reactivity in the breed. Also, they can be noisy and they often have exceedingly piercing barks. Another risk with border collies in a multi-dog household is that some individuals have such a strong herding instinct that they will develop an obsession with herding the other dogs. I know less about kelpies and koolies, but I suspect these traits are common across all three breeds.

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“Find me some lines”.

I have the impression that it’s not as easy to find distinct lines within breeds as it once was. I think there are fewer reputable kennels of sufficient size to develop distinct lines without going down an inbreeding rabbit-hole. Also, “line-breeding” has lost credibility and, judging by pedigrees I’ve seen, even large kennels seem much more likely to seek out unrelated sires than they would have a few decades ago.

 

I’d love to hear commentary on this from more knowledgeable people.

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1 hour ago, DogsAndTheMob said:

“Find me some lines”.

I have the impression that it’s not as easy to find distinct lines within breeds as it once was. I think there are fewer reputable kennels of sufficient size to develop distinct lines without going down an inbreeding rabbit-hole. Also, “line-breeding” has lost credibility and, judging by pedigrees I’ve seen, even large kennels seem much more likely to seek out unrelated sires than they would have a few decades ago.

 

I’d love to hear commentary on this from more knowledgeable people.

I suspect the concept of lines works better for working or active competative sporting dogs than bench or pet oriented dogs.  I've got gundogs in NZ.  Yes, line breeding is being avoided,  but those doing gundog trials do actively seek matings between dogs who perform well in the field.  Not just large kennels...anyone with a well performing bitch who wants to keep a pup will put out feelers for the right dog.  I'd imagine the same holds for herding dogs, ratters, or agility.

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I used to jog around an oval with my border collies off lead. Well I jogged and they would go sit in the middle of the oval and watch me run around :laugh:

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I think kelpies or kelpie crosses are your best bet, mostly because there are so many of them.  Also, they've strong and smart and fit for Australian conditions...no grooming worries either.

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Thinking , if i wanted a dog thats easy to train , low maintenance , hardy  and fit , capable of long runs in summer , one that likes to stay close to its owner , are usually good off lead ,, my first choice would be  a heeler ,,  but shedding is  or can be an issue ,  so 2nd choice a kelpie ,,,  3rd choice a springer spaniel ,,, other than that  i'd give up and just buy a picture of a dog i liked and stick it  in my wallet  i have owned a heeler and a springer  and will say   both used to cross country run with me , both would'nt leave my side  and too be honest   can't really remember except for the occasional once a week brush spending too much time on grooming with any of them

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On 16/05/2022 at 3:39 AM, coneye said:

Thinking , if i wanted a dog thats easy to train , low maintenance , hardy  and fit , capable of long runs in summer , one that likes to stay close to its owner , are usually good off lead ,, my first choice would be  a heeler ,,  but shedding is  or can be an issue ,  so 2nd choice a kelpie ,,,  3rd choice a springer spaniel ,,, other than that  i'd give up and just buy a picture of a dog i liked and stick it  in my wallet  i have owned a heeler and a springer  and will say   both used to cross country run with me , both would'nt leave my side  and too be honest   can't really remember except for the occasional once a week brush spending too much time on grooming with any of them

Love the wallet pic option LOL

 

My son had a red kelpie who was just astoundingly loyal and smart. I find them not to be especially social as a rule - pretty much a one person dog when it comes down to it. Not rip your head off unsocial .... but quite standoffish. I don't know about springers, but my sister has had heelers most of her life. If you want a dog who is loyal to a fault, then a heeler or a kelpie is the one, I think. You have to give them a LOT of time.

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8 hours ago, OzzieLioness said:

Love the wallet pic option LOL

 

My son had a red kelpie who was just astoundingly loyal and smart. I find them not to be especially social as a rule - pretty much a one person dog when it comes down to it. Not rip your head off unsocial .... but quite standoffish. I don't know about springers, but my sister has had heelers most of her life. If you want a dog who is loyal to a fault, then a heeler or a kelpie is the one, I think. You have to give them a LOT of time.

I sense that Springers (I have 2 ESS) would be too cuddley and velcro for the OP.   Also, may be hard to train off chasing rabbits.

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