Jump to content

NEED HELP PLEASE! HOW CAN I TAKE MY VERY AGGRESSIVE GUARD DOG TO THE VET?


 Share

Recommended Posts

9 hours ago, Papillon Kisses said:

Welcome, Dale. I know dogs who are and have been in this position and it is certainly a tricky spot to be in.

 

It sounds like Tyson would benefit from some very carefully selected (to avoid paradoxical reactions) pre-visit anxiety medication and cooperative care/animal husbandry training (being approached, being handled, wearing a muzzle, getting an injection, etc), to get him to a stage where he can be calmly and safely sedated. They may give the sedation needle in the car or parking area if he is more relaxed there than in the exam room. Then they can take him inside for treatment while he’s knocked out. I’d do the works while he’s under - blood tests, check for pain and do X-rays if needed, dental if deemed appropriate, and whatever he has been brought in for. When dogs are too worked up they fight sedation, needing more and more of it, and it doesn’t take effect like it should.

 

If the owner is on board with it, I would highly recommend getting a consult with Dr Kat Gregory at Creative Animal Solutions. She’s a Behaviour Veterinarian and animal trainer in Victoria who does Telehealth consults and can prescribe medications, liaise with the treating vet on the ground, and help with the training and handling aspect or refer to a colleague in your area for that part. She has a particular interest in cooperative care, even training cheetahs and other wild animals for vet work, so this is right up her alley. Alternatively any Behaviour Vet to get the medication right - it’s a more specialised area and primary care vets might be a little lost with a more complex case. Some of them do vet-to-vet consults which can be cheaper.

https://www.creativeanimalsolutions.com

https://www.anzcvs.org.au/chapters/veterinary+behaviour+chapter

 

Hope this helps and thanks for caring for Tyson and seeking help so he can get the vet care he needs. As sad as it is, a day may come when he needs to be euthanised and we wouldn’t want his last moments to be more stressful than they need to be. Getting things sorted now is definitely the way to go.

 

PS. Ace is purely a chemical straight jacket that scrambles perceptions. Ask yourself: if you have a trauma around medical care and handling, and someone gives you a drug that has those effects (when used in isolation), will you feel better or worse? And how will you be next time you need medical care?

https://www.dvm360.com/view/just-ask-expert-ace-not-so-ace-examining-patients-with-fear-aggression
https://www.petmd.com/blogs/fullyvetted/2009/october/acepromazine-why-im-not-big-fan-when-it-comes-sedation-ace-6937

Thank you so much nfor advice and all the info links. I agree with your chemical straight jacket would just create more trauma next time around.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

11 hours ago, Rebanne said:

if the vet gave you an injection could you give it to the dog while he is quiet?

Thank you Rebanne, yes I could administer an injection. Depending on how quickly It can be done, Tyson won't like it and if I'm not fast enough he will bite me. I am willing to take that risk, if that is an option. I will talk to the vet.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Noticed you said you are a live in caretaker , so i assume the dog does'nt actually belong to you , so brings my question whats he like with his owner ,,  too be honest  a gaurd dog i understand , this fella sounds like he could be an out and out killer if he escaped  ,,,, I hope sincee the owners   have been all good with him becoming this agresive there willing to spend a fortune its obviously going to cost  for vets to look after him ... not having a go at you but personaly i just don't see the need or  reason to have a dog that agrresive ,,  unless he's trained  to be good on command ,, i know i would,nt want that responsibility  or care of such a dog ... good luck with what you do ,, but given the moneys there i'm sure if vets can handle lions and tigers a viscous rotty would be a walk in the park for the right vet ,, but it will be about dollars ,,, Jeez i've been too 4 different vets  spent thousands and   non of them can be bothered telling me why my dog keeps getting recurring ear infections  he costs a lot  and he's a dog they want to look at .

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

When I've had a dog with an ear infection my vet likes them knocked out to get a really good look inside. So more then sedation. I'd be going for injection in the back of the car first off then take it from there. Good luck

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 hours ago, coneye said:

Noticed you said you are a live in caretaker , so i assume the dog does'nt actually belong to you , so brings my question whats he like with his owner ,,  too be honest  a gaurd dog i understand , this fella sounds like he could be an out and out killer if he escaped  ,,,, I hope sincee the owners   have been all good with him becoming this agresive there willing to spend a fortune its obviously going to cost  for vets to look after him ... not having a go at you but personaly i just don't see the need or  reason to have a dog that agrresive ,,  unless he's trained  to be good on command ,, i know i would,nt want that responsibility  or care of such a dog ... good luck with what you do ,, but given the moneys there i'm sure if vets can handle lions and tigers a viscous rotty would be a walk in the park for the right vet ,, but it will be about dollars ,,, Jeez i've been too 4 different vets  spent thousands and   non of them can be bothered telling me why my dog keeps getting recurring ear infections  he costs a lot  and he's a dog they want to look at .

Hi Coneye, your right Tyson is not my dog. The owner doesnt live at the property he lives elsewhere. It is a long story as to why I think Tyson is so aggressive, but he is and that's what I am dealing with. I don't have to do it but I am an animal lover so I will do whatever it takes to look after him. Because Tyson lives with me full time he has adopted me as his Dad so the owner is a bit nervous to come through the gate when I am home if I'm not home I don't think he would try. I agree that Tyson has way too much aggression and it is not necessary but again there was unforeseen circumstances that his temperament is so bad and a long story. I have spoken to the owner and he has agreed that he will pay whatever it costs to have Tyson fully examined from head to paws as well as dental, so it's just a matter of me and the vet and advice from people like you to work out how to do it safely. Thank you so much for your reply I really appreciate it.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

16 hours ago, asal said:

one of the vets I used, unfortunately he has retired, but he had a cage you could walk them into and then the sides could be moved to keep them still.

 

he had one for cats too as he helped a cat rescue and some of them were feral. where he got the idea for the crate crush for dogs too.

 

wonder if other vets would have the same?

 

although I was watched a zoo one, they darted the lion? it sure went to sleep.

 

but for Tyson you would need to tie him up first so he could not have a go at you when he was darted?  maybe ring a zoo and ask who is their vet and ask their vets advice?

 

worth a try

 

that's if he needs to see a vet before the training suggested is far enough advanced to get him more amenable

 

Hi Asal, thanks for reply, the crate crush is a very good idea I am going to try and fabricate one for Tyson. Thanks for advice really appreciate it. Dale

 

Hi Asal

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Lions and tigers and the like are usually tranquilised with Ketamine... which can be used on dogs, and can be given intramuscularly if needed. You are going to need a pretty accurate weight on Tyson to make sure whatever sedative you use will be given at the right dosage... is that possible?

 

Ketamine usually gives around 15-20 minutes of sedation, so you'll want to be dosing him near to the vet clinic, so they can get him inside and onto the gas anaesthetic machine before he starts to come around... and then there is the issue of how he will be handled while he recovers from the anaesthetic and can go home.

 

There are not going to be any easy answers to this issue with Tyson, but if the vets and their staff are willing to help sort his health issues out, then at least you have half the battle won, OK?

 

There have been some good advice answers here about muzzle training, which may take a little while to get him to comply with, so maybe in the meantime, the vet could prescribe some more drops and maybe a broad spectrum antibiotic (Cephalexin??) to help make his ears more comfortable while you acclimatise him to the muzzle? Note that if his ears are sore, he may not like you putting on the muzzle as it may put pressure on sore ear canals, but you will need the muzzle on tight enough that he can't get it off, so you have a catch 22 situation there...

 

Good luck... Tyson has a good friend in you... I'm sure you'll work it out eventually, and he'll be a much happier boy after it's all done...

 

T.

  • Like 4
Link to comment
Share on other sites

For ear infection you could ask if they could place a long-acting medicated gel in the affected ear/s while he’s under. It might save you from having to do ear drops for a while which I imagine he’s not particularly enjoying with his sore ears and handling issues.

 

This sort of thing. I don’t know whether there are a range of products: https://www.dechra-us.com/Files/Files/SupportMaterialDownloads/US/Osurnia_Client_Brochure.pdf

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello everyone,

I would like to say thank you to all that have taken the time to reply to my post regarding Tyson. Thank you for all the advice it is greatly appreciated. I will let you all know how I go getting Tyson in for a full examination. It's so nice to see that so many people are animal lovers just like me. You are all amazing!

A BIG THANK YOU FROM TYSON AND DALE

 

  • Like 7
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)

I've got a little dog and he has recurring ear infections , nothing seems to work , I spent hundreds   on vet visits with him ,   been  to 4 different vets and its the same everytime , i make an appoinment , 70 dollars , look at him , they say oh its  red is'nt it ,, take swab  put it under microscope to see if its  yeast infection 70 dollars ,never is yeast  infection ,  sell me some antibotics 60-70 dollars   , sell me steroid tablets 60-70 dollars sell me  drops 60-70 dollars ,,  I ask whats causing it  answer don't know ,, seems the only thing they do know is  every thing has a 60-70 dollars pricetag , every visit seemed to cost 2oo-300 dollars , i ask is it the diet , i've tried everything  raw , chicken , rice and veg  , canned food ,  dry biscuits , non seems to make a difference  its back 4-5 weeks later ,, last time they put him under  and  said his ears were  full of gunk , and infected ,, cleaned them out 600 dollars  , including the after drops , guess what 5-6 weeks later he's shaking his head and the ears are red again and obviously very sore , its recurring and its expensive and 4 different vets have not or cannott tell me the answer .

 

So i look on u tube  come across a vet who says  its all common , she also says she's disgusted in her own profesion  selling   medicines they get kickbacksa for ,   she explains  excessive use of steroids and antibiotics   are very bad and dogs get immune very quickly , she also says most vets know this but  sell them  anyway because they make good money from them ,,

 

She suggested 50-50 apple cider and vinigar   and opic drops  once a week ,,, guess what    he still gets it , but   once i see them going red ,  out comes the cider vinager treatment ,  , next day there  or actually its usually one  is getting better ,   couple days of putting in  a bit and washing the ears its cleared up he's happy again , once a week i use the opti drops ,  end result its  gone from recurring and costing me  a few hundred dollars at the vet every  8 weeks or so , to having to do the vinager treatment  every 3 months or so  the opti stuff   seems to work , they tell me  it loosens gunk so the dog can shake it out ,, the vinager   mix definetly seems to clear up his infected ears and give him relief  , try it if he'll let you

Edited by coneye
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 weeks later...
On 08/07/2022 at 5:57 PM, coneye said:

I've got a little dog and he has recurring ear infections , nothing seems to work , I spent hundreds   on vet visits with him ,   been  to 4 different vets and its the same everytime , i make an appoinment , 70 dollars , look at him , they say oh its  red is'nt it ,, take swab  put it under microscope to see if its  yeast infection 70 dollars ,never is yeast  infection ,  sell me some antibotics 60-70 dollars   , sell me steroid tablets 60-70 dollars sell me  drops 60-70 dollars ,,  I ask whats causing it  answer don't know ,, seems the only thing they do know is  every thing has a 60-70 dollars pricetag , every visit seemed to cost 2oo-300 dollars , i ask is it the diet , i've tried everything  raw , chicken , rice and veg  , canned food ,  dry biscuits , non seems to make a difference  its back 4-5 weeks later ,, last time they put him under  and  said his ears were  full of gunk , and infected ,, cleaned them out 600 dollars  , including the after drops , guess what 5-6 weeks later he's shaking his head and the ears are red again and obviously very sore , its recurring and its expensive and 4 different vets have not or cannott tell me the answer .

 

So i look on u tube  come across a vet who says  its all common , she also says she's disgusted in her own profesion  selling   medicines they get kickbacksa for ,   she explains  excessive use of steroids and antibiotics   are very bad and dogs get immune very quickly , she also says most vets know this but  sell them  anyway because they make good money from them ,,

 

She suggested 50-50 apple cider and vinigar   and opic drops  once a week ,,, guess what    he still gets it , but   once i see them going red ,  out comes the cider vinager treatment ,  , next day there  or actually its usually one  is getting better ,   couple days of putting in  a bit and washing the ears its cleared up he's happy again , once a week i use the opti drops ,  end result its  gone from recurring and costing me  a few hundred dollars at the vet every  8 weeks or so , to having to do the vinager treatment  every 3 months or so  the opti stuff   seems to work , they tell me  it loosens gunk so the dog can shake it out ,, the vinager   mix definetly seems to clear up his infected ears and give him relief  , try it if he'll let you

 

 

sadly it is a common problem with the vets. Friends dog kept losing coat, very itchy and despite constant vet visits and thousands in medications, think she discovered she had paid out over $3,000,  he ended up it spreading all over him until she had him put down to end his suffering.   She also had a chihuahua girl and bred a litter from her . as my boy was the dad she gave me a pup for the service, When I went to pick her up, I noticed mum had inflamed paws and hair falling out. soon my puppy's feet became inflamed and hair falling out too, some on her body too. Took her to Cobbity university and they did skin scrapings and she had the mange foxes commonly get, .

 

As the mange medications normally used can kill a chihuahua, she was instead given Ivomec sheep drench , she had to be given 0.2 in a diabetic syringe , daily for weeks and it cleared up.

I told my friend who took her mum to them and she too was cured. When she told them about her Labrador boy, said she probably caught it from him , He used to chase the foxes and try to dig them out of their dens.   she was heartbroken that her local vet had never diagnosed him correctly, had always said he had a skin allergy.

 

Years later I bought a cavalier puppy, who after his second vaccination developed very red hot skin, all over him but even worse on his tummy and his hair began falling out at the same time,  Took him back to the vet who vaccinated him and he suspected the vaccination had crashed his immune system allowing his normal skin flora to multiply to such an extend as to create the skin irritation he was now showing, that it is not transmittable to other dogs or people was the good news, but he was miserable.

He mixed Ivomec sheep drench with I have no idea what, so the dose I was to give him daily was very low dose and he said would reduce their population back to what it should be normally and it worked.   He was fine until he had to have his 3rd vaccination and again is immune system crashed and same result.  once stabilised, with the same medication.   unfortunately this time when it was finished, within weeks he became red and itchy again.   In his case he had to be given a weekly dose for the rest of his life as his immune system never recovered.

 

But he lived a long happy life.   Well after my sister in law, who I had given him too, finally got it through to her vet when the bottle of medication I have given to her with him ran out. That was the only way to prevent him losing his coat.   Pity her vet would not believe my vet until he had cost Mandy over $1,800 in testing him for everything he could think of first.   In the end he still did not want to give her to Ivomec that had kept him fine for his previous 2 years .  So her husband in fury, went to the produce store and bought the sheep ivomec for himself and gave him that at the weekly my vet had recommended.  He lived to 14 happy and itch free.

 

That was 30 years ago,  Luckily the oral sheep drench is still available.  

 

used by the weight recommended on the packet, hence the need for a diabetic syringe when used for small dogs, as its  it not only cures and prevents both kinds of mange, but prevents heartworm as well.

 

"Dosage and Administration

IVOMEC Drench for Sheep is administered orally at a dose of 3.0 mL (2.4 mg ivermectin) per 26 lb body weight or 200 mcg ivermectin per kilogram of body weight. Coughing may be observed in some animals during and for several minutes following drenching."
 
Yep, it tastes terrible, I was not popular when I had to first give it to mine, although they grudgingly got used to it.
 
O and the added bonus is it worms your dog at the same time 
 
(One produce store I know now packages it in their own brown glass 200 ml bottles, so many people ask for it for their dogs. (otherwise the smallest you can get it is in the Half Litre packs.  awful lot to have to buy for one dog.  Kept in a dark cupboard as it should be kept away from light will last for years )
 
I have seen so many dogs supposedly with "grass allergies"  within a month of being given weekly Ivomec with perfect no longer itchy coats. but try telling their vet and no joy, just more bills and still itchy, shedding unhappy dog
 
Edited by asal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@asal, Ivomec injectible (10% I think) for Cattle can be given orally to rabbits and guinea pigs at a dose rate of 0.1ml per kg bodyweight... we used to use it on our rabbits and guineas at work as it worked out a heck of a lot cheaper than those tubes of spot-on stuff available nowadays.

 

T.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

55 minutes ago, tdierikx said:

@asal, Ivomec injectible (10% I think) for Cattle can be given orally to rabbits and guinea pigs at a dose rate of 0.1ml per kg bodyweight... we used to use it on our rabbits and guineas at work as it worked out a heck of a lot cheaper than those tubes of spot-on stuff available nowadays.

 

T.

 

 

NEVER knew that.   always been wary of the injectable, it has a record of killing approx 1 in 100 horses. my vet refused to use it for years for that reason, finally gave up as he was losing so much business to the vets who did.   He was pretty traumatised after the first one pegged it., said he was dead before he could pull the needle out. so if they are going to pet it, can be really fast.  Friend had an agistment place and her vet did 80 one day.  none died on the spot like that, but two went down and died as they were walking back to their paddock and her filly was down and ill for a week. so 3 reactions from 80

 

had a colt well he was 6, hated being drenched, and hated being tube wormed so decided to let tony give him the injectable ....  to keep him busy I have him some oats to munch.  as he was injecting it, blue began to tremble and scared the wits out of my vet.  but it was all in before he could stop it.

 

suddenly blue began coughing, he had choked himself on too big a mouthful of the oats.   nearly killed the vet with the fright I think   :rofl:

 

Edited by asal
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Please anyone reading this…. Ivermectin is a good treatment for mange but it’s very dangerous to administer it to collie type dogs and mixes of collie (border collie, collie rough & smooth, Sheltie, Coolie, Bearded Collie etc) A simple google of ‘ivermectin & collies’ will inform you. 

  • Like 6
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Podgus said:

Please anyone reading this…. Ivermectin is a good treatment for mange but it’s very dangerous to administer it to collie type dogs and mixes of collie (border collie, collie rough & smooth, Sheltie, Coolie, Bearded Collie etc) A simple google of ‘ivermectin & collies’ will inform you. 

 

 

also applies for murray grey Cattle, kills a significant  percentage if like the dogs they carry the defictive gene, the good news it has a dna profile test for it now. ive had three border collies tested all are free of the defect. well worth paying for the dna profiles of any breed. be it dogs, horses and cattle

 

 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hello everybody, once again thank you all so much for your replies and advice.

I have just brought Tyson home from an all-day vet head-to-paw examination and treatment. He has had teeth extracted, ear flushes, eye checks, basically everything that he needed. One of the vet nurses put me onto a council Ranger who has a license for shooting tranquilizer darts, so we set it all up with the vet, the ranger, myself, and of course Tyson. The Ranger got set up, Tyson and I were in the backyard at the vet clinic, and the Ranger shot the dart perfectly. Fifteen minutes later the vet and the ranger agreed that a second dart would be necessary as Tyson was still not sedated enough for the safety of all involved. The second dart was shot perfectly again by the Ranger, another fifteen-minute wait and success! The vet gave me the muzzle but as soon as I got it near Tyson's face he started growling(we couldn't believe it). So the muzzle was put aside. I was able to get Tyson on the stretcher so we could carry him inside. The anesthetist was then able to put him under a general anesthetic and the vet could do everything he needed to do. It was a very long day for Tyson(although he was asleep)and a mentally exhausting day for me but we are now at home Tyson is resting comfortably. I am going to be checking on him hourly during the night and tomorrow will be a rest day for both of us. It's such a relief for me to know that the big fella is not in any pain or discomfort! Thank you all from Tyson and Dale.

  • Like 14
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 I'm glad everything went to plan and there wasn't anything really bad like cancer etc wrong with Tyson.  Tyson's a lucky boy to have you caring for him.

 

Thanks for updating  us . And I'm so glad both of you are ok after your very well planned Vet visit.

 

 

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Great work Dale! And good boy Tyson!

 

So glad you found a workable way to get Tyson the help he needed asap... even though it reads a little extreme. Obviously this is exactly what Tyson needed done at this time, and all parties worked together to get a good outcome for Tyson.

 

Please keep working with Tyson on some of the desensitisation techniques earlier in this thread, as he will possibly need to see a vet again at some point in the future, and anything you can do to make that a less traumatic experience for yourself and Tyson the better, OK?

 

T.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...