Backyard breeder makes fortune

[Tempus Fugit]

Is this for real: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11093871/cavoodle-breeder-reveals-huge-profit-makes.html?fbclid=IwAR1MspA_-J-gL1D9hdcCl2E1Vjw0eZE7PYOkNTk-zxwnL6T2xWrThG81lWs?

[Amazetl]

That’s so sad and disgusting. How many dogs must he have to be able to make that kind of money? Poor things. ‘Cavoodles’ and other oodles and other dogs in general don’t sell for 6000 anymore either. Now would be a really bad time to ‘get’ into the dog breeding world for money. There are so many adds, so many people have tried to make some money on them and it’s flooded now and they can’t sell them. So sad. Even purebreds who were 7000 a year ago are now half that price. 

 

Regardless, making profit for profit off a living animal is so sad. Sad they even wrote an article about it. It shouldn’t get any attention other to say how stupid it is. 

 

My breeder made no profit. After all the expenses (c-section and complications). That’s not to say that they don’t deserve to make some profit but it’s not the business where to expect it. 

[sandgrubber]

1 hour ago, Tempus Fugit said:

Is this for real: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11093871/cavoodle-breeder-reveals-huge-profit-makes.html?fbclid=IwAR1MspA_-J-gL1D9hdcCl2E1Vjw0eZE7PYOkNTk-zxwnL6T2xWrThG81lWs?

Can happen with all sorts of breeders.  I knew a lagotto breeder (now deceased) who did a lot of showing who made a fortune selling pups. 

[Little Gifts]

I have no issue with a quality breeder making a comfortable living from doing what they are good at and dedicated to. But sadly it is the dodgy puppy farmers and back yard breeders raking in the dollars whilst pumping out poor quality puppies and spending as little money as possible on their breeding dogs and bitches and their care. Who do so many people not care either about where their pup comes from or the quality of the pup they are paying thousands for? It makes no sense to not do your homework when spending that much money on something you should have for 10+ years. They probably spend more time choosing their new tv than they do a dog.

[tdierikx]

1 hour ago, Amazetl said:

‘Cavoodles’ and other oodles and other dogs in general don’t sell for 6000 anymore either.

 

I think you will find that they are still selling for between 4k and 8k... and still flying out the door at those prices...

 

Cheaper to actually buy a pedigreed purebred from a registered breeder nowadays... *sigh*

 

T.

[Amazetl]

For a long time they were, even up to 9 or 10 thousand by the top puppy broker websites. But if you look now most on the trading post are under or around 2000 now and the puppy brokers are about 3 or 4 thousand. 

 

I think a lot of people just don’t think of the research, they just trust what they see and don’t think outside the box. Plus a lot of those huge puppy brokers have excellent marketing techniques making it seem like their dogs and puppies are so well cared for, better than any other puppy. 

[WanaHavanese]

On 16/08/2022 at 4:49 AM, tdierikx said:

 

I think you will find that they are still selling for between 4k and 8k... and still flying out the door at those prices...

 

 

 

Yeah still selling for high prices here. Good marketing on social media goes a long way. Interacting with and accepting online enquiries gets them a lot of business. 

 

I house sat a few years ago at a cavoodle (pet registered) breeders place and if that wasnt a puppy farm, I duno what is. They are extremely popular on social media and have pretty photo areas that make it look 'top of the line' ethical. I never thought a dog with known heart problems crossed with a hyperactive dog was a good choice, but they made the big bucks and get all the online love, so they must be doing something right. 

 

If there had been anything else available to me in the 4 years I was searching, I would have got it. But I got an oodle (not cavoodle) from a family who had bred the mum and kept the aunt and had the uncle of the two just in a family home as pets. I was happy to support a pensioner set up like that, but I never actually wanted a baby puppy to begin with. They are just available and that makes it easy. And being such small, easy care dogs, not many are ending up in shelters here as they sell for high prices "second hand" too. 

 

 

 

[coneye]

Think the thing is what constitutes a breeder and a back yard seller,, Breeders are  entitled to make a profit  , byb  i think most want stamped out , but who's to say who's who and whats what , its all very subjective ,  now my last two dogs have been rescue dogs , but prior to that  i o always bought full pedigree ,  even got two boxers  from the pound mother and son which had too come has a package , So what is a breeder ,, I remember  when  i bought a shepard , i went to a breeder who was advertizing  , drove around 80-100 klm out into  the southern hills of adelaide , along a long dirt road , came across this house , on , acre's of land , , remember i  was a bit concerned about getting out the car ,   there were a big group of shepards  just running around playing ,   all big  strong dogs probably about 10-12 of them , I'm thinking is it safe ,,  my missis says get out ya wimp , and gets out  and starts patting them all , the owner /breeder , comes out she laughs  and says you'll be fine  , i get out and EVERY ONE of them was big strong confident and freindly ... Breeder tells me   escuse the mess of the dogs ,, mostly all wet  theve  just come back from the dam ,  just out the back she had a big dam , apparantly every morning she let all the dogs out to run and they would go play in the dam  come back   and were mainly just out there pens playing and enjoying a great life ,, also out the back she had a   whole row of kennels  all with there own  little run , she also had a   big shed , inside the shed was a massive whellp box   and a door that led to  a  outside enclosure ,, she told me , the mother lives here with the pubs till  they have gone , that way  when she goes out   they follow and there usually 80% house trained from the mother  , mine was 100% house trained 18 years never done a thing .  she proudly shown me pics and medals , ribbons ect of the dogs  which she shown past and present ,  it was a great set up ,  the breeder spoke to us at lenght and asked me what  do i want most ,  out of a shepard , showdog , gaurd dog ect , i told her  , big freindly  confident bla bla bla ,  she asked  the main thing  do you want to show  , my answer NO ,,, so she took me too a litter  she actually had two litters ,, walked right up to a pup  and said heres your perfect dog , , i said whats perfect about him ,, she said look at the size of him ,    he's massive for a 8 week old pup  , i start to play with him , he's straight away giving me a little growl , tething at my hands ,  , she then said , he's not suitable for show because , one he's going to be too big ,  and two he's  long haired ,   no good for the show ring pet only ,, i took him he was a great dog , the most gentle shepard you will ever meet ,  my  youngest lad came along  that year and the two  were unseperable for years ,  from being 12 months of age  my lad would climb on the monsters back and say gee up doggie ,  the dog loved it used to even lay down while he got on , they were stuck to each other , only thing was he was a useless gaurd dog , ,  that was a breeder and a good no Great one  also remember i said i'll take him and got out the money he came with unrestricted papers , and she said deposit only , he's only 8 weeks old and i don't allow them to leave till there 10 weeks .

 

Now fast forward 30 plus years i go looking for another shepard not long ago ,, i answer a couple of ads  , one i go to  its a    person renting a house  ,     knock on the door , obviously unemployed  mother of  a dozen kids says come in , but i'll just put the dog away ,  she has to put the father away its viscous ,  shows me the mother looks like a jackel , shows me the pups ,  i just  say thanks but no thanks ,,

 

go to the next one ,   there  its the mother only and the pups ,  the mother once again looks like a jackel , but the owner  spends  a long time telling me about how her dog  is on its way to becoming australian champ ,, i ask about the father turns out  he belongs to her freind  who also breeds , but thats ok she has pictures , looks like another hunchback jackel with a skinny fox like snout ,, of her i also get a lecture about  how ethical she is  and her dogs are sold on ltd papers because she's a responsible breeder ,  . yeh threw her mates jackel to mix with her jackel ,  one thng in common these two had was the price , around $3500 , i said  , to the second BREEDER if i want one can i take it now , yes if you want , i say  there only 6 weeks old will that be ok ,, course it will she assures me ,  but because he's not here  you will have to get your secomnd injection at your own cost ,,  , Ok i say thanks but no thanks , by the time i had got out the door she was virtually begging me to buy it for $2500  because that would pay her freind for the stud fee .  and this ones supposed to be a ethical breeder ,

 

 So end result i think it pays to look around , shop around  and do your due dilligence  Oh another thing i forgot to mention  was papers and restrictions  she changed her mind  when  i said  i would'nt buy anything  and be given restrictions ,  faced with losing a sale , her ethics went out the window ,, .

 what would i do if i still wanted a shepard  easy ,, i would look high and dry for a breeder who dels in European   shepards ,,  imported at that  , less chance of being mixed with a hunchback jackel , But i don't  sorry but seems to me  the GSD have been ruined since i bought one 35 years ago  and i find it annoying

Edited August 25, 2022 by coneye

[WanaHavanese]

Yeah I get what you are saying @coneye I've seen similar set ups with dogs in a stable-like complex with free access to patios, paddocks and dams in the day rather than being kept in someones back shed or laundry. And I agree for professional breeders, thats exactly what I would want to see. Almost a luxury breeding establishment.

 

But when it comes to a crossbred pet, I'd rather pay an elderly pensioner doing a litter every few years to keep her beloved pet line over a big business crossbreeder churning out litter after litter in the carport. In saying that, I am not "in" the dog world, in any way, so this is purely personal opinion. Perhaps, the story I tell myself because I couldn't get a foot in the door with pedigree breeders. (Or rescues before that).

 

 

 

Another thing, that is slightly off topic but still a reason why people pay for oodles, is that there is choice. People like to make their own choices. Imagine going into a shop and being told there is only ONE jacket suitable for you in the entire range and its the only one you can have for 10+ years. If the dogs are of a good and stable temperament, it shouldn't matter too much which the buyer is attracted to. 

 

Its one of the things that really grinds my gears, the god complex of some breeders and rescue organisations. They think after a questionnaire or quick meeting, they know you and exactly whats suited to you. I HATE that as I am not articulate and do not present well, so people do not get a fair understanding of me.

 

This happened to me as a teen looking for a horse. Pony club set me up with a big TB gelding to take me up the levels. He was just SO boring to ride. Push button with no personality, no spark. I told him what to do and he did it, like a robot. I am neurotic and do well with similarly neurotic animal companions that are always asking "why should I". If there is no challenge there is no point. Ended up falling in love with the total opposite of what was deemed "right" for me - a little bay broodmare pony with quick feet and no education - we had the time of our lives together.

 

I mean, I get it, I used to take tourists for horse trail rides in the 90's who claimed to know how to ride because they saw the Man from Snowy River on tv, but to generalise and decide one knows best for another person - for the animals entire life - is so patronizing. Sure, offer traits of the dog and try to match it up to a suitable home, but to say this is it, this is yours and thats that, would have me leaving in a flash. For the dog I have now, there was a choice of 4, I narrowed it down to two and from there the owner told me some personality traits.

 

I picked the one who liked to watch tv, like me! So now we get annoyed watching The Dog House do exactly what I have described together  

 

 

 

[_PL_]

On 25/08/2022 at 2:34 PM, WanaHavanese said:

 

Its one of the things that really grinds my gears, the god complex of some breeders and rescue organisations. They think after a questionnaire or quick meeting, they know you and exactly whats suited to you. I HATE that as I am not articulate and do not present well, so people do not get a fair understanding of me.

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by Powerlegs
no point

[WanaHavanese]

Yeah some rescues do good work, dont get me wrong. Being human is the key! Not deciding the home must compromise to the rescues will because they know best in every situation. Often rescues get it right enough. Thats a great outcome. But I know many people who feel stuck with their rescue dogs and wont give them up for the shame of it. The quality of life for the owners and dogs has suffered. Some friends have just put dogs down instead, vowing to never do it again (in these cases, it should have been done by the rescue organisation if not the previous owner). 

 

We see articles every week about rescues being overrun. I duno much about the euthanasia debate in this sphere. What makes a dog get 100 applications and another none? People like to make the choice when applying. A choice they made is easier to live with than a choice someone else made for them. Thats my point. 

 

One the rescue dogs I applied for before I got my pup is still advertised, my pup is almost a year old! I start to wonder, if they havent found a suitable home in that time - is there a suitable home? 

 

Now that I do have my little companion, the next one can be waited for. But if I didnt get my dog when I did, I probably wouldnt be here at all. 

 

 

[_PL_]

.

Edited August 25, 2022 by Powerlegs
never mind

[coneye]

Rescue centres i don't know much about them  except for the rspca i don't know any ,, but i will say  if i wanted another dog , i would not go to the rspca ever again , I just don't like them  ,  i think there a profit based organization who's sole ambition is to work to get govt and council grants ,and  little old ladies leaving them money and animal lovers giving up there time to be a volunteer

 

 Rspca  nearest to me   i first bought a pair of dogs of them in 1985 ,, i bought  my present  dog  about 7 years ago ,  then it was  a dogs home , and if you wanted to rescue a dog  you just drove up walked through the door had a look at all the dogs  fell in love with one straight away , bought it and lived happilly ever after ,,  Now you cannot do that  i went a couple of months ago went inside and after waiting 20 minuites to ask someone to  let me through was told to go away   and make an appoinment to look at the strays and adoption dogs ,  why , has it changed , course they say covid , but to my knoledge dogs don't get covid ,, its a much easier rteason , and thats simple 80% of the kennels are not took up by  dogs being rescued there took up by dogs being boarded ,,, its turned into a very profitable boarding home for dogs ,,  there staff are volunteers   they get govt and council grants ,   and basiclly   with the help of thesee grants  ,  take buisness of other  boarding homes for dogs ,, 

 

RSPCA  are  just a buisness  with a great story

[WanaHavanese]

Yeah you missed my point entirely @Powerlegs

 

 

Looking back over these forums today, the oodle debate has been going on for over a decade. Yet the poodle cross has only increased in popularity. There are so many reasons for it. People will pay for convenience and choice. Cutting out pet shops just cut out the middle man (and gave the methhead up the street a steady income selling $500 staffies).  Plenty see the same thing as me, the extreme gatekeeping and hoopjumping required from some rescues and some breeders sends puppy buyers straight into the hands of backyard breeders. 

[asal]

1 hour ago, WanaHavanese said:

Yeah you missed my point entirely @Powerlegs

 

 

Looking back over these forums today, the oodle debate has been going on for over a decade. Yet the poodle cross has only increased in popularity. There are so many reasons for it. People will pay for convenience and choice. Cutting out pet shops just cut out the middle man (and gave the methhead up the street a steady income selling $500 staffies).  Plenty see the same thing as me, the extreme gatekeeping and hoopjumping required from some rescues and some breeders sends puppy buyers straight into the hands of backyard breeders. 

 

 

ITS AMAZING, they cant see it. they parrot ethical and responsible as if it were some magic spell? 

 

takes me back to the days when people wore garlic around their neck to ward off vampires?  or was it witches?

 

anyway they have the chant off pat.

 

it sure drives many people away, so perhaps its working,  so do we presume those repelled are vampires or witches??????????? 

 

 

 

 

Edited August 26, 2022 by asal

[tdierikx]

In defence of @Powerlegsand other rescuers of undeniable integrity... I'd say that they DON'T have a "god complex"... they are just wanting to make sure that the dogs they rehome never have to see another pound/shelter again.

 

The current problem of overflowing pounds and shelters is testament to what happens when dogs are sold to the first person lobbing up with the money...

 

T.

[asal]

On 27/08/2022 at 6:04 AM, tdierikx said:

In defence of @Powerlegsand other rescuers of undeniable integrity... I'd say that they DON'T have a "god complex"... they are just wanting to make sure that the dogs they rehome never have to see another pound/shelter again.

 

The current problem of overflowing pounds and shelters is testament to what happens when dogs are sold to the first person lobbing up with the money...

 

T.

 

 

actually it is rather interesting, curious and puzzle, all rolled into one.  All the strangling laws the politicians have created to micro manage registered breeders into reducing the number of registered breeders has significantly reduced by the tens of thousands as have the number of puppies that can be bred?

 

to the degree that finding a puppy from one of these breeders has led to waiting lists, in some cases for year or years.

 

Yet it seems there is just as many, if not more dogs being surrendered than in the 1990"s?

 

so 30 years to "eliminate puppy farmers" yet nothing has changed?

 

 

 

[tdierikx]

You make a very interesting and valid point there @asal...

 

More and more restrictive legislation introduced over the years certainly has seen a decline in the numbers of registered, pedigreed, and purebred pups being available for the general public to obtain. As you say, waiting lists for quality pups from great breeders are now the norm, and often those waits can be for a very long time because of limits imposed upon breeders with regards to the number of intact animals they can have, and the number of litters those animals can produce over their lifetime. This new proposed legislation in NSW will be the most draconian yet... even more restrictive than the recent legislation introduced in Victoria... grrr! Unfortunately, it won't really make much of a dent in the number of puppy farm pups, as those who are currently unregistered with any industry body, or operating clandestinely, still can't (and won't) be policed effectively... meanwhile, all those who ARE doing the right thing and complying with legislation will be subject to even more restrictions and scrutiny.

 

Obviously the demand for puppies hasn't waned much from year to year, and the pandemic also created a perfect storm in that regard, meaning that less conscientious "breeders" have risen to meet that demand... and made a tidy profit while doing so - whether they be mass producers or backyarders.

 

The biggest problem overall is NOT necessarily those breeding animals for the pet market though, is it? It is the DEMAND from the general public that encourages and facilitates those willing to do anything to meet that demand and make a profit from it. Funnily enough, nothing in the proposed new legislation actually addresses that particular problem in any effective way... one tiny section that basically tells DPI to work out some form of educational campaign warning about "puppy farmers"... but as said legislation also refuses to define what constitutes a "puppy farm"... well, you can see the problem here, yes? Technically, anyone with 2 or more intact female animals will be classified as a "commercial breeder"... and just the term "commercial breeder" raises concerns in that regard too, as the general public have been conditioned over the last few years to equate "commercial breeder" with "puppy farmer"...

 

T.

[~Anne~]

I hate the byb vs pedigree debate. There shouldn’t be a debate because it’s horses for courses. 
 

I liken it to the debate which rages about public schools and private schools. It’s a choice and each to their own. The teachers and curriculum are all the same in both systems. The differences are cultural.
 

Same with breeding dogs. It’s a cultural difference. The genetics are the same.  ALL dogs, byb or pedigree, have genetic issues just like we humans do. There is no such thing as a perfect canine specimen - it’s a feckin’ myth! The cultural difference means one lot is bred to a set of desirable traits - that doesn’t mean the dog is any better than the dog which is not bred for specific traits. 
 

I CHOOSE to buy purebred because I want certain traits in my animals. That’s my choice but my choice is not any better or worse than someone who buys a dog from a non pedigree breeder. If I wanted another dog now, I would likely buy from a pedigree breeder. I hate the stupidity of the statement ‘rescue, don’t buy’. Feck off and don’t tell me what I do and please don’t dare lay a guilt trip on me because I choose to do what is best for me.  
 

The cruelty and abuse debate is a seperate issue and comes with a whole new set of points. 
 

As for rescues - I get where you’re coming from (I can’t see what Powerlegs said as the posts are now gone).  My eyes never roll so hard as they do when I see some of the rubbish on social media. It’s an unregulated industry which means it’s a mess. There’s so many people with their hearts in the right places but their heads are another matter, and running any business purely on emotion isn’t a good idea. 

[~Anne~]

On a last note - I’ve argued for years that we cannot really debate the reasons why we have dogs in impound facilities. 
 

Until an in-depth study is done, we can only guess. 
 

I firmly believe the current premise we hold about why dogs are in pounds and or rescues is wrong. It’s based on assumption. It’s not based on research. A study conducted by UOQ years ago indicated different causes and outcomes to the thinking of the day and that thinking continues to this day. It’s almost a mantra: desex - rescue - regulate breeding… and yet what do we have now? The SAME issues as always.