purplepulse Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 Don’t worry people; I’m not going to suddenly start “zapping” my pup to teach her a lesson. I had never heard of “e-collars” until 6 weeks ago. I’m just interested in learning about them, I enjoy learning about K9 force’s methods of dog training..ok In one of K9 force posts he was talking about “focus” & making dogs waiting for their food, well after 3 days I can now place the food down & walk away. The pup will not touch the food until I give the command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 (edited) Powder Puff - As this thread is NOT about the pros & cons on e-collars... may I suggest you do a search for a previous thread that is on that subject. Save us all having to go back over it again. Powder puff has every right to state his/her opinion about E collars. Yes it has been debated long and hard. So what? PP can say what is on her mind. Valid points, maybe as you can see PP is a new member you could have given a thread for a link. I will find one and pm when I do, meantime well said powder puff, speak up speak your mind, you will find everyone else does. ok found one you can all read if you like electric collar thread Edited November 13, 2005 by Rusky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 (edited) Powderpuff does have the right to express her own opinion, but unfortunately her post was rather irrelevant to this particular thread (the original question was "does anyone know of a trainer in WA who use e-collars?" not "who on DOL hates e-collars?") An uninformed, off-topic rant isn't such a great way to introduce yourself to a new forum, IMO, at least not if you want to be taken seriously. Edited November 13, 2005 by Amhailte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 maybe PP has been reading the forum for a while, or yes could be the other I agree. I feel he/she could have been 'spoken to' nicer with a first post. I disagree that it was definitely an 'uninformed off topic rant' PP may well be full bottle on the laws and functions of Electric collar. I actually disagree that anyone needs to read a thread before presenting an opinion or experience. Sometimes the opinion of others is irrelevant because your own is passionate. If I have never expressed an opinion on particular issues which are passionate to me I make mine, then I read what others have written. Threads get hijacked on a daily basis, it is the art of natural conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted November 13, 2005 Share Posted November 13, 2005 (edited) Like I said, Powderpuff has every right to offer her opinion. But if her opinion isn't based on experience or facts, then I have no obligation to respect it. I feel he/she could have been 'spoken to' nicer with a first post. If her own first post had been more polite, then perhaps she would have been? I disagree that it was definitely an 'uninformed off topic rant' PP may well be full bottle on the laws and functions of Electric collar. She might, but I'm inclined to doubt it. I'm perfectly happy to be proven wrong though, if Powderpuff wants to come back and detail her knowledge and experiences of training with the e-collar? Unless she does, I guess there's really no point debating what she says. Edited November 13, 2005 by Amhailte Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 R: Powder puff has every right to state his/her opinion about E collars. K9: this is 100% correct, it applies to all members of the board, including me, so I woul like to respond. Powderpuff: You guys amuse me the way you justify using shock collars K9: You know, when someone uses the term "shock collar" it tells me quite a lot about the motivation of their post, when the very first post on this forum is to jump in on a e collar thread, laugh at those discussing a tool, refer to the tool with slang, I'm placing my money someone without the courage to enter into a professional discussion has just created a new membership to Troll. I hope Im wrong but Im betting not. P: What I have noticed when I have seen people testing a shock collar, is the immediate reaction to pull your hand, arm or whatever area it is being tested on away! K9: I agree 100%, old collars were shock collars, modern collars known as remote training collars do not have this effect. P: A shock device attached to a collar which is firmly fixed to the dogs neck, means the poor dog doesn't have the opportunity to pull away and has to bear the full intensity of the shock. K9: from your description I get a clear picture of what sort of trainer you must be, I cant see anywhere that the dog needs to be subjected to the full intensity . Why would you do that to a dog? This would be clearly missuse resulting in abuse... Please dont troll here, if you have genuine concerns, I suggest you post them... R: So what? PP can say what is on her mind.Valid points, K9: the points are far from valid, as they convey an abusive dog trainer. R: maybe PP has been reading the forum for a while K9: & maybe you would be better letting Powder Puff speak for themselves... R: I disagree that it was definitely an 'uninformed off topic rant' PP may well be full bottle on the laws and functions of Electric collar. K9: The laws or functions were not added, there was simply the fact that Powder Puff was amused by e collar users... R: I feel he/she could have been 'spoken to' nicer with a first post. K9: well maybe Powder puff may look at their first post as a learning curve, jumping in wth incorrect information & laughing at experienced posters will not get you a handshake, anywhere... Anyone is free to post their thoughts, but I see what has been written as blatent Trolling... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zia's Nuthouse Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 (edited) Sorry to hijack, I know I shouldn't eek. But K9 I was wondering, I am in Victoria, and as you would be aware they are not to be used down here in my neck of the woods How would you deal with that? in your neck of the woods? I've heard some people cover them up so they can use them without being caught. I have never used them, never had any experience whatsoever so can't comment either way on should they or shouldn't they be used. I have to say though I never knock something until I've tried it I do think its unfair of the ruling down here though I'm sure there are plenty of people in Vic that would love/need to use one. It sucks actually I'll shutup now LOL thanks Zia Edited November 14, 2005 by Zia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Z: But K9 I was wondering, I am in Victoria, and as you would be aware they are not to be used down here in my neck of the woods K9: whilst their are restrictions, they are not illegal in Vic, a vet check of your dogs health will see you being able to use one legally. Z: How would you deal with that? in your neck of the woods? I've heard some people cover them up so they can use them without being caught. K9: I would recommend that you seek the vets approval required, then you have no need to cover up. I believe that the only state that they are 100% banned is SA.. Then people there hide them, (I suspect)... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciara Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 I believe that the only state that they are 100% banned is SA.. Then people there hide them, (I suspect)... Since when? Thanks for letting me know btw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 K9: I cant find the official date, but that the word... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ciara Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Great the backward state of dog training in SA has just gotten even more retarded. I think I'll stick to Chihuahuas if that's the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusky Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 I disagree that it was definitely an 'uninformed off topic rant' PP may well be full bottle on the laws and functions of Electric collar. She might, but I'm inclined to doubt it. I'm perfectly happy to be proven wrong though, if Powderpuff wants to come back and detail her knowledge and experiences of training with the e-collar? Unless she does, I guess there's really no point debating what she says. :p you are right, there isn't QUOTE maybe PP has been reading the forum for a while K9: & maybe you would be better letting Powder Puff speak for themselves... I think we have a powderpuff and a powder puff, one has been reading and posting for a while, the other is a new rego. I researched ;) ok pp is gone ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zia's Nuthouse Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 (edited) K9 thanks for that info, I must admit I wasn't aware of that at all. I thought they were totally banned here. Just one other query, when you say a vet check, forgive me for sounding dumb, but why would you need to do that? I mean would it be like a vet stating for you that the dog does need to use an E collar? Is that what you mean by getting around the issue of the legal side of things? Thanks in advance. I just find it fascinating that the states have different rules when we are all one big country Zia Edited November 14, 2005 by Zia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Z: But K9 I was wondering, I am in Victoria, and as you would be aware they are not to be used down here in my neck of the woods K9: whilst their are restrictions, they are not illegal in Vic, a vet check of your dogs health will see you being able to use one legally. Only also under the supervision of a qualified trainer, as I recall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Great the backward state of dog training in SA has just gotten even more retarded. Ciara ..... very sadly, Victoria's getting there with our various legislations banning prongs and, of course Pit Bulls .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 14, 2005 Share Posted November 14, 2005 Just one other query, when you say a vet check, forgive me for sounding dumb, but why would you need to do that? I mean would it be like a vet stating for you that the dog does need to use an E collar? K9: I believe this is out of pure ignorance, & the fact that the people who influence the laws, many are vets. There is no effect on the dog that certain health criteria need to be met... I have a test of my own, I put a lightbulb in the dogs mouth & if it lights up, the dog is ok to use electronics, its called the Uncle Fester method Is that what you mean by getting around the issue of the legal side of things? K9: The law, like many is open to interpretation, but I, & many other read it that, if a vet certifies the dog as healthy, your clear. Yes Ernry is correct, a qualified trainer can also use one or you can work under the instruction of a qualified trainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Just one other query, when you say a vet check, forgive me for sounding dumb, but why would you need to do that? I mean would it be like a vet stating for you that the dog does need to use an E collar? Zia - Somehow it's because the "makers" of the legislation believe that Vets are the best to advise as to whether the dog's temperament is suitable for e-collar use and also whether the behaviour issue warrants and would be suitable for it. No offence to those Vets who really do know and understand in depth "dog behaviour", but most, I find, know more on the medical side of things (as they should) and have spent a considerably short time in their Vet Courses studying behaviour, compared to many other people (trainers etc.) who have studied and regularly and broadly work with "canine behaviour". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Staranais Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 Seems silly to me. Why do they expect a vet to know what dogs are "suitable" for e-collars, and which dogs aren't? Are the vets given any guidelines about it? Or are the vets just supposed to make up their own minds which dogs have good "temperaments" for e-collars, without necessarily ever having used an e-collar themselves? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve K9Pro Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 K9": some vets are brilliant, many are not. I have spoken to many vets on this issue & they have no idea what to test/look for? There are no guide'lines for them either. The vet has to trust the owner & certify them to use the collar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted November 15, 2005 Share Posted November 15, 2005 (edited) That's about the strength of it, K9. Silly as it seems. When I've spoken to Vets to get their "permission" to use an e-collar, the common response is "oh .... if you think so, so do we ....". For those interested, here's an extract from the Regulations: 7E. Use of certain electronic collars prohibited (1) A person must not use an electronic dog training collar that can impart an electric shock on a dog or any other animal except in the circumstances in sub-regulation (2). (2) Sub-regulation (1) does not apply to a person who uses an electronic dog training collar on a dog - (a) if a veterinary practitioner has examined the physical health and temperament of the dog and reasonably believes that the dog is suitable to have an electronic dog training collar used on it; and (b) the person is - (i) a veterinary practitioner; or (ii) acting on the instructions of a veterinary practitioner; or (iii) a qualified dog trainer (within the meaning of regulation 13(2) of the Domestic (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Regulations 1996); or (iv) acting under the supervision of a qualified dog trainer (with the meaning of regulation 13(2) of the Domesitc (Feral and Nuisance) Animals Regulations 1996). Edited November 15, 2005 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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