Clyde Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Erny, could you find another vet? Your current one has taken about two weeks to reply to your emails. Perhaps a different vet might actually suggest tests and offer something further. I'm sorry you are still going through this Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 Dru - that's what I'm thinking. Russell Mitten only works Tuesdays ... a bit more often outside University 'semesters', but he's semi-retired and also lectures for the Vet University. And he was away for one week. I respect his knowledge and thought at the time that he was working with me - trying to nut out what Kal's problem is. Given all of this I was prepared to wait .... it's also such a slog going through a new Vet (I've done that a few times ) who seem to insist on a lot of repetative poking and probing, which causes Kal lots of stress, and me lots of expense. However, given the latest, I think I have no alternative. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 (edited) Double post Edited February 11, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pampa Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Shit Erny I can't offer any advice or on-hand info but you have in no way bored me with your recital of Kal's ups and downs, on the contrary. Most puzzling and worrying... Please do keep us updated and hope that it is a minor something that can quickly be put right... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 Shit Erny "Shit" being the operative word, Pampa To say I'm frustrated with all of this - it's being going on for 2 years ..... progressively, with what seems to be new symptoms joining the old. Haven (DOL member) has given me a Vet recommendation - think I'll be taking her up on that. In the meantime, I'll keep smiling and working towards finding out what the heck's going on .... and, of course, loving my dog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tramissa Posted February 11, 2006 Share Posted February 11, 2006 Erny, I hope you find a resolution for your girl soon. I'd be looking for a new vet as well. The current one doesn't seem to be responding to your concern at all. Printing this thread out is a good idea Can you get a copy of the test results already done to take to a new vet rather than repeating the tests? or have them get in contact with this other guy? Anything to save the poor girl yet more stress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 11, 2006 Author Share Posted February 11, 2006 Thanks Tramissa. Good point - have thought to do this. Figured I can maybe get them to send file to new Vet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 (edited) This is what I've emailed Russell Mitten today, after he wrote suggesting that I make an appointment "if [i'm] still concerned". "Russell - thank you. Of course I'm still concerned ... nothing's been resolved and I was hoping we could work to find out what's going on. Kal vomited up her breakfast Saturday morning just gone, and I notice today (Sunday 12th February) that her hip bones have become more prominant - perhaps not by much, but something I have not noticed previously. Something's definately wrong. I acknowledge that her bloods are 'clear' and that 'we' don't know what else to check for. I guess that's why I'm endeavouring to do some of my own investigational enquiries, although I realise this might not be appreciated by a professional. Unless you've got any other ideas, I figured testing for the following MIGHT be worthwhile: 1. EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency 2. Cushings Disease - whilst you mention there's no clinical signs suggesting this, isn't that the problem with Cushings Disease - that the symptoms are not overt until later down the track and that many of them are put down to 'old age', given that it normally affects the more elderly dogs? 3. Pancreatic tumour - although the bloods indicated no presence of tumour, didn't you mention that it's not ALWAYS conclusive? Perhaps an ultrasound to confirm is prudent? 4. Hyperthyroidism - from what I can gather, dogs are more likely to contract hypothyroidism which, at Kal's age anyway, would show symptoms of weight gain. I can find no readings on dogs with hyperthyroidism - only cats. Is hyperthyroidism possible in dogs at all? I feel hyperthyroidism is the least likely of all, but don't know if it's worth checking. Perhaps her bloods already eliminate this anyway? I can't help thinking/feeling her condition relates to pancreatic disorder. I understand bloods indicate her pancreatic function as 'normal', but I also understand that SOME dogs require a higher pancreatic function than 'normal' for the rest of their body to function normally. Could it not be possible that Kal is one of those dogs? If I'm really barking up the wrong tree, please tell me. But Kal is definately not well ... I'm hoping that someone will work with me to determine what's going on. I have been weighing Kal weekly. The first weigh in was on Monday 23rd January - 27.2kg Demeanor was low. Lethargic. Weather was 40 degrees celcius Kal was inside with air conditioner running. I fasted Kal on the following Wednesday 25th January. On 29th January, the weather was 33-35C. I kept Kal inside from 12.00 noon with airconditioning running. When I returned from training (approx 6pm), her demeanor was very good - bouncy and we had a game of chasey up and down the hallway. The second weigh in was on Monday 30th January - 27.7kg (yay!) Demeanor was good (not brilliant, but good) Weather was 23 degrees celcius. The third weigh in was on Monday 6th February - 27.5kg Demeanor - quiet. Appearance - drawn; coat dullish (compared to usual) Weather was 23C. Kal actually began to appear a bit better - both physically and in spirit, come Wednesday through to Friday. On Saturday 11th February, 2006, she vomited her breakfast. Was off her food that morning and was very low throughout the day. She was eager for her dinner that night and held it down. This morning (Sunday, 12th February) she eagerly ate breakfast and as far as I can tell (I've been training all day) there was no vomiting. Demeanor is ok, although not as spirited as could be. I will weigh her again tomorrow (Monday, 13th February). I have been weighing her at the same place at around the same time of the day. I have ensured that she has not been fed beforehand and that she has the same lead and collar on at the time of weigh-in. The scales have been reset to "0" each time to ensure accuracy and consistency. Should I not be concerned? Do you think you can help us? Regards" Edited February 12, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted February 12, 2006 Share Posted February 12, 2006 addison's disease; hypoadrenocorticism, or adrenal insufficiency I don’t have a diagnosis – what are the symptoms? The symptoms of Addison’s disease can be vague. More importantly, they are similar to the symptoms of many different problems. Initially, the dog may be listless, or seem depressed. Many dogs are described as just seeming off, or losing the normal sparkle in their eye. Lack of appetite is a good indicator. Other symptoms include gastro-intestinal problems like vomiting and diarrhea. Pain in the hindquarters, or generalized muscle weakness such as a dog that can’t jump onto the bed or couch as he has done in the past is not uncommon. Shivering or muscle tremors may also be present. The most important thing to remember is that you know your dog better than anyone. If something seems amiss, have it checked out. These symptoms may wax and wane over months or years making diagnosis difficult. If the adrenals continue deteriorating, ultimately the dog will have an acute episode called an Addisonian crisis. Commonly reported symptoms. Severity can vary dramatically from dog to dog. Anorexia Thin/Weight Loss Depression/Lethargy Vomiting/Diarrhea Weakness Collapse Shaking and Shivering Excessive urination with or without excessive thirst Waxing and Waning Course of Illness Painful/Sensitive Abdomen Fatigue/exercise intolerance here are some links: http://www.scwtca.org/Addison.html http://www.westlakeanimalhospital.com/Ency..._s_disease.html still searching..but the difficulties ppl experience in obtaining definitive diagnosis initially, waxing and waning of symptoms, etc make this worth reading Good Luck Helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 12, 2006 Author Share Posted February 12, 2006 addison's disease; hypoadrenocorticism, or adrenal insufficiency Thank you, Dogbesotted - I actually looked that up the other day and thought "maybe". If I remember rightly, I think it's diagnosed by an ACTH blood test, as is Cushings Disease. I forgot to add this one to my list. I must admit, the list of symptoms in your post seem more detailed than the one I read, and I could probably say that Kal has, at one time or another through this saga, displayed each one of them. I shall add this to my list of suggestions for checking. I will go to the links you've given and have a further read up on it. I REALLY so appreciate the concern you've all expressed, and the thoughts you've obviously put into this to be troubled enough to help us. From the bottom of my heart - thank you. I will re-visit here when I get further information (dare I say "progress") ? Thank you all. What a long tale for you to go through. Thanks for allowing me to share it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 13, 2006 Author Share Posted February 13, 2006 (edited) Vet's response to my most recent emails: 1. He tested for EPI (Exocrine Pancreatic Insufficiency) at Kal's last visit and it was normal. 2. Although he suggests it is unusual for dogs to have no clinical signs and no secondary laboratory evidence for Cushing's, it CAN happen and he will conduct definitive tests for Cushing's if I desire. 3. Pancreatic tumour is a possibility and he has suggested an abdominal ultrasound. 4. Kal's signs don't suggest hyperthyroidism to him and there is no secondary evidence from the blood tests, but he has said he will do a definitive test if I desire. 5. In response to my suggestion that perhaps Kal is one of those dogs that functions normally on a pancreas that functions higher than 'normal', he feels this is unlikely, but again suggests the possibility of a pancreatic tumour is certainly a consideration (amongst other abdominal organ dysfunctions). 6. He suggests Kal's weight variations as reported are within the normal limits we would expect from day to day. 7. None of the blood tests that Kal has had show any support for a diagnosis of Addison's. He also suggests it is typically a disease of younger dogs, mostly 2-5 years. I'm going to call him now and see what is required for the abdominal ultrasound ... I don't know if it's necessary to fast for this ... if so, today is out of the question. . Will post back here with the results when I have them. ETA: I rang - they said fasting is necessary. Although Russell won't be there, I've made an appointment with radiology for tomorrow. Edited February 13, 2006 by Erny Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InspectorRex Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 Good Luck with Kal, as you know we have "been there, done that" with our girl in my avatar. Prayers coming yours and Ka's way that soon some answers are given Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 Thank you, IR. I'm feeling a bit happier today knowing that steps are being taken to further investigation into her condition. If the ultrasound shows clear (I hope it does) I guess it's a matter of discussing with the Vet "what next". It seems the test for Cushings and Addisons is the same/similar? (ACTH). Even though the Vet doesn't believe it is either, in the absence of something else more likely, I think I will have the blood tests done, if for no other reason than to completely rule them out (and spend my "excess" money ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted February 14, 2006 Share Posted February 14, 2006 note: atypical addison's dogs have electrolyte levels within the normal range. I know i am harping and i am not a vet, but I know of friends whose dogs have been either atypical cushings or atypical addisonian and it has take years to get a diagnosis. http://www.beaconforhealth.org/Addisons-atypical.htm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 14, 2006 Author Share Posted February 14, 2006 I know i am harping and i am not a vet ... Harp away, Dogbesotted .... I've been doing enough of that myself with the Vet we're seeing. I will not discount Addisons. To date, it is the closest thing that I know of that Kal's symptoms match. I will wait for the results of the abdominal ultrasound though. If that is clear, I will request a test for Cushings & Addisons. Thank you - the links you've been providing are really informative. I've been printing them out. My desk is buried under medical paperwork! I feel like I've earnt a first year Vet grad's certificate! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Kal underwent an abdominal ultrasound today. Two things were picked up: 1. Polyp on/in Gall Bladder. 2. Enlarged adrenal gland (right side only). Twice size than normal. I refuse to contemplate, at the moment, what this means and whether or not either of these two things have a bearing on the symptoms Kal's been displaying. The Vet should be in tomorrow and I'm expecting a call from him then. I'll post back when I have further information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne_Fury Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Awww Erny that's not good to hear. Keeping fingers crossed for both you and Kal that it isn't something serious Anne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dogbesotted Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Erny, First up dont panic! Take a deep breath..( remember to breath out ). thinking of you both. helen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erny Posted February 15, 2006 Author Share Posted February 15, 2006 Thank you Anne and Helen :D . I promise I'm not panicking. Experiencing a quiet concern, perhaps, but not panicking. ;) I don't know until I know. And who knows - the adrenal enlargement, whilst it might be tumerous, could even be benign. And if it's not, Kal and I will simply deal with it in whichever way is of the most benefit for Kal. Regarding the polyp in/on her Gall Bladder, whilst the radiologists can't analyse the results and make suggestions based on that analysis, they implied that the polyp is often just one of those things and that you expect things not to be perfect inside the body of an older animal. BUT I think I might go shout myself a scotch and coke - I don't normally drink by myself ...... but then, I'm not alone (Kal's here :D ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KOE Posted February 15, 2006 Share Posted February 15, 2006 Hugs Kisses and best wishes heading Kals way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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