Obedience Training/need School

[hjd]

.

Edited May 3, 2006 by hjd

[Kelpie-i]

I also believe that ADT has many advantages over other clubs for the average dog owner, things like qualified trainers, access to a behaviourist, formal socialisation progrems etc etc.

There are certainly many other dog training venues that offer this sort of service, not just ADT. And as "employees" of the NDTF as well (you all know who you are), you should also be recommending the other schools/clubs that are paying members of the organisation - not just ADT.

Edited April 13, 2006 by Kelpie-i

[Herr Rottweiler]

I don't entirely agree with what you are saying Tess. What is the difference with someone who works for ADT and someone who is an extreme member of a dog club? Should they state that they are on committee, that they belong in the demo team, have been a member for more than 5 years? I don't think so. So why should ADT people single themselves out for sharing that passion?

The guys in here promote ADT because most of them were customers that found a system that worked for them and have seen it work for hundreds of others, (in my case thousands) and are proud to recommend it to others here on DOL.

I have seen people on here recommend others to train at clubs where I personally think they are not even safe to be classed as trainers but I don't brand them or get agitated about it. For the record, if anyone didn't allready know, I work for ADT and i'm the training director.

[Guest Tess32]

The difference generally is - you get paid. If I was recommending my workplace to someone, I would have no problems telling them that I work there and would expect the same from anyone. You have a vested interest in the success of ADT.

If I was on the comittee of a club and had a strong vested interest in it I would also tell people out of politeness. They may want completely unbiased views.

How great ADT is, is irrelevant. It's not about ADT. Simply about common courtesy.

[Alison]

I agree with Nat that you should state that you work for the place you are recommending. As a club, you rely on new members to keep going. Without new members, your club would not be able to keep you in employment. It is for this reason that you have a vested interest in getting new members to join the club where you are employed. As you have stated, you are not payed a commission on new memberships, however, it does make your job all that more stable if you can manage to keep memberships up.

[Herr Rottweiler]

Just for the record Alison, every single, "non profit" club that I have belonged to relies on new memebers and will actively promote their club through their current members so they can pay their fee's, improve their services etc.

Tess, I have never seen any of the trainers on her hide or deny that they are trainers from ADT and I have seen many posts from Erny and Haven where they have openly discussed it. Why does it bother you so much? Would it make you feel better if they had something about it in ther signature?

[Erny]

Just so we can follow the trend of your posts, Tess:

Oh I didn't mean it was a self serving venture to get lotsa money...

Here you acknowledge that those that train at ADT (because their training is quality) and therefore support them, are not "self-serving".

....trainers are not impartial by default ;)

This has already been refuted - it's been explained that we train for ADT because we like what they do, and not the other way around.

... You have a vested interest in the success of ADT. If I was on the comittee of a club and had a strong vested interest in it I would also tell people out of politeness.

And here, in one sentence, you've gone from "we have a vested interest" to "a strong vested interest.

It appears that you're now blowing this out of proportion, albeit unintentionally?

... How great ADT is, is irrelevant. It's not about ADT. Simply about common courtesy.

I trained my dog at ADT. Why can I not post simply on that basis? What is irrelevant, I think, is that I liked them so much, I agreed to train for them.

Although I never intended to give any a false impression (I've already explained this), I post as "me" and give "my" opinions, not as who I might happen to work for or because of where I might work.

Training is our hobby, and any payment is simply that .... "hobby money".

Edited April 14, 2006 by Erny

[Guest Tess32]

Erny, you seem to be implying it (being biased) means you don't truly support your club's values or believe in them. I'm not sure why. I didn't think it was that controversial saying that working *anywhere* and getting paid for it, you automaticaly have a vested interest. Of course, many people have a vested interest in their club because they like it, but when it is monetary, it is considered by many that it is fair to mention such when promoting.

My quote meant that I didn't think you were saying ADT were great solely to get more money or that you don't truly recommend them.

Erny, you didn't appear to have any problem with my request initially - "Not a problem, Tess32. It was an omission by error, not by intent. Probably because the way I view it is that I train for ADT because they are good at what they do, so of course, I would promote them."

I don't know why HR, you'd think I was "bothered". I've been replying to Erny and Haven's subsequent responses. I thought my first post was quite harmless, and that the discussion was over as Erny had said no problem on her part.

Fact remains - I think it's fair to mention you work somewhere, when you are promoting something. Certainly is a very common thing to do.

Up to you if you want to, just surprised at the response.

Nat

Edited April 14, 2006 by Tess32

[Erny]

Nat, I don't have any problems with saying I train for ADT. Must admit that I'm puzzled that my opinion shouldn't count for it being given on a personal basis. But, at least by now the OP is fully aware that both Haven and I train for ADT. If the OP hasn't been discouraged by the "banter" between us folks in these last few posts, I hope I get the chance to meet her and her young dog ...... whether that be at ADT or anywhere else she might chose to go.

Moreover, I hope you enjoy your training with your dog, Goldy. That's the main thing. ;)

[Herr Rottweiler]

I don't know why HR, you'd think I was "bothered". I've been replying to Erny and Haven's subsequent responses. I thought my first post was quite harmless, and that the discussion was over as Erny had said no problem on her part.

Fact remains - I think it's fair to mention you work somewhere, when you are promoting something. Certainly is a very common thing to do.

Up to you if you want to, just surprised at the response.

Nat,

I didn't know the door of intrigue swings one way? Of course i'm curious to your motives for asking this question, why wouldn't I be? I was wondering if you think we have an unfair advantage over the other clubs or were you thinking that we do this to line our pockets but I believe we have both answered this. What about people who own a training business compared to people who work in one? Should they be compelled to open with, "Hi, I own xxxxxxxx so here's why I think you should train with me?" As we have all stated, we were all clients who loved the system, wanted to teach it and actively promote it. Most new DOL members will pm people they have an interest with and ask what their involement is, (which has been my experience many times) and they will get all the information they need plus some.

Im uncertain why you are surprised at the response? If you harmlessly prodded a Bees nest with a stick, would you be shocked if they defended themselves?

As previously stated, if it makes you feel more secure, I can encourage all the ADT guys to put something in their signature so new posters will get the idea.

[Erny]

... As previously stated, if it makes you feel more secure, I can encourage all the ADT guys to put something in their signature so new posters will get the idea.

We could do this, although I'm also a trainer and behaviourist in my own right, and, whilst I'm proud to be able to lay claim to the fact that I train for ADT, I also like to maintain my individualism, which is the basis on which I joined DOL, and which is the basis on which I post. ;)

Edited April 14, 2006 by Erny

[Guest Tess32]

I think you're being overly paranoid HR and making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Put it this way, if someone asked on another forum "hey, what's a good dog forum" and Troy went around answering it with "hey, this forum is really great and they have good discussions", omitting he is in fact, the Owner.....then I would ask the same thing. It doesn't mean he doesn't truly believe the forum is great, or that he doesn't enjoy it as a *user* on top of being the Owner. But it would be considered a courtesy for him to mention the fact. Now I might, as a user, recommend DOL - but *my* vested interest is different from his.

So please, trust me....no motives. I don't own a rival club waiting to secretely destroy ADT and take over the world ;)

[Erny]

Your "analogy" might well hold strong merit, Nat, if it were the case that "entry" cost a person money without being offered insight "before they buy".

At ADT, as I am sure is similarly the case for other obedience schools, people come to a "First Timer's" session at the grounds (during training time) so they can see and also have someone explain what ADT are about.

So, even if I purposely didn't 'fess up to being a trainer for ADT, and the person came down to look and listen, what would be lost? Wouldn't they do that anyway, regardless of whether the recommendation had come from a member only, or a member/trainer?

[Guest Tess32]

People don't have to join DOL before reading posts either. The point is the person recommending and their obligations, *not* the finer details of the club, or forum.

[Herr Rottweiler]

I think you're being overly paranoid HR and making a mountain out of a mole hill.

Put it this way, if someone asked on another forum "hey, what's a good dog forum" and Troy went around answering it with "hey, this forum is really great and they have good discussions", omitting he is in fact, the Owner.....then I would ask the same thing. It doesn't mean he doesn't truly believe the forum is great, or that he doesn't enjoy it as a *user* on top of being the Owner. But it would be considered a courtesy for him to mention the fact. Now I might, as a user, recommend DOL - but *my* vested interest is different from his.

So please, trust me....no motives. I don't own a rival club waiting to secretely destroy ADT and take over the world ;)

I think we should just agree with the fact that we share different view points here and that no one is right or wrong, just different. My point is not to wear you down to my way of thinking nor should you be doing that to me. We each have a view on this and in a very drawn out discussion we have each stated how we feel about this.

By the way, my henchmen at my secret ADT lair have almost completed our mind control device and we plan to take over the world any day now unless you pay me.......... 1 BILLION DOLLARS

[oonga]

i recommend the Rotty Club of Victoria training on a wednesday night begining at 7:30pm at KCC park. yes it is run by the rotty club and predominantly there are rotty's there although we have had other breeds even a puppy pug!! so my understanding is that is open to other breeds as well. The trainers are all excellent and qualified not volunteers, and always stay back to answer any questions you may have one on one. I can honestly say although we have been going only a short time, we also train at an all breeds club every other sunday and the difference in the quality of the volunteer trainers at all breeds club and the professional trainers at rotty club is incredible. the atmosphere is also much nicer and more caring, personal and the socialization always consists of introducing new things to the dogs such as people dresssed as clowns or whipper snippers all sorts of stuff really. at all breed training socialization is let your dogs of lead and let them play. and just for the record i am NOT a dog trainer for any club LOL far from it trying very hard to learn to train our own puppy LOL

good luck with your search Goldy ;)

cheers

oonga

Edited April 14, 2006 by oonga

[Guest Tess32]

Well, if all you're going to do is mind control everyone into take their dogs to training....I'll pass on the payment....go for it ;)

[haven]

I also believe that ADT has many advantages over other clubs for the average dog owner, things like qualified trainers, access to a behaviourist, formal socialisation progrems etc etc.

There are certainly many other dog training venues that offer this sort of service, not just ADT. And as "employees" of the NDTF as well (you all know who you are), you should also be recommending the other schools/clubs that are paying members of the organisation - not just ADT.

I wouldn't say many other dog training venues offer the same services as ADT. You are quite right in saying that there are a few that do, although in this case as the OP is looking in Berwick, ADT is the closest.

Having said that my post was in response to Tess32's mention of the employment issue, not a recommendation aimed directly at the OP.

For the record I will continue to promote 4 paws and training clubs that are members of the National Dog Trainers Federation where appropriate, just as I always did prior to working for the NDTF and certainly not just because of my employment status.

I'm also a trainer and behaviourist in my own right, and, whilst I'm proud to be able to lay claim to the fact that I train for ADT, I also like to maintain my individualism, which is the basis on which I joined DOL, and which is the basis on which I post.

Amen to that ;)

Edited April 15, 2006 by haven

[Herr Rottweiler]

I'm also a trainer and behaviourist in my own right, and, whilst I'm proud to be able to lay claim to the fact that I train for ADT, I also like to maintain my individualism, which is the basis on which I joined DOL, and which is the basis on which I post.

Amen to that

Oh brother! Why don't you start singing, "I am women, hear me roar"

Edited April 16, 2006 by Herr Rottweiler

[haven]

Oh brother! Why don't you start singing, "I am women, hear me roar"

Be careful what you wish for

Edited April 16, 2006 by haven