Skipy Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 OK, this is more of a general question, but sterilization should not cost more than desexing, it might involve a bit more will on the behalf of a vet but it does not involve more work , it involves less work? peibe, I have a LOT of respect for what you are doing so dont involve that into general discussion about whether desexing is right or wrong, which is where this ended up. If people say that early desexing is THE BEST, I will respond to that. I do not blame breeders at all for this early desexing mania that is happening, I blame vets that do it..... I am sayign what I think is right, just like you are saying what you think. I am certainly not dictating, or have a desire to dictate what others do. I wish, however, that people would accept the WHOLE truth about desexing, especially early desexing so that people that are getting dogs from breeders, with best intentions in mind for their new dog would not have to suffer and miss out on enjoyment of having a healthy pet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverdog Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) - Edited February 26, 2008 by silverdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I think sterilistaion would be a harder procedure for a vet to perform, most will not do it and will only desex, so there is no option It is hard enough trying to inform some people who want to adopt a rescue dog why it is desexed so young, trying to then tell them a dog is sterilised would be a nightmare I do not like having to desex baby puppies but without a vet who will offer another option cheap what choice is there? Rescue cannot fund a $250 sterilisaton operation when desexing is available for $100 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadia Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Skipy do you rescue????funny how no one is answering the question, or are you and the other that are against early desexing also x breed haters??Yes the idiot who let his bitch have a litter is responsible, but it is far easier to desex the dogs than educate the fools The OP was about a BREEDER early desexing puppies. NOT Rescue. Now I am a BREEDER and I also RESCUE, and I do not agree with early desexing. I do not hate X Breeds, there have been many mutts in my life. I rescue mutts as well. I don't understand this question at all???? In fact I cannot see how it is at all relevent. I am not ANTI DESEXING, I am simply not in agreeance with early desexing from my BREEDER position. Rescues are a different story, I'm sorry if you do not see it that way, but they are. As a BREEDER I have to stand 100% behind the puppies I produce. I cannot in all honesty desex at 8 weeks and then hand over a puppy and state that I have done everything I can to produce a happy, healthy puppy when the act of desexing it at that age could create issues down the track for the dog and it's owners. When I hand over a puppy it is after I have done everything I can to give that puppy the very best start in life that I can. That puppy has been given every chance to grow and develop normally, that is my responsibility as a Breeder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 I am not questioning the morals of breeders on DOL, I have found there to be a difference But it appears to be a difference in the rescue to breeder point of view on early desexing I do not like it but cannot see a way around it financially or trusting someone to desex their pup later, especially since the pups can often go interstate No the topic was not about early desexing but about a breeder etc, it has gone off topic though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gareth Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) The constant arguing between rescuers and breeders over this issue has become tiring. Never the twain shall meet I am all in favour of early desexing of rescue pups. Makes perfect sense. However, if they were baby puppies I had put heaps of research, work, love and care into breeding and raising, there is NO way I would put them at risk of anaesthesia at such an early age, and I would recommend to buyers not to do so before they were at least 6-9 months old. Give them time to grow and develop a little first. There is no point arguing about this constantly. Rescuers have their opinions and reasons for being in favour of, and breeders have their opinions and reasons for being against.. Well, those that ARE against do. No point. Let's just share information and educate each other without denigration and nasty remarks. Edited August 24, 2006 by gareth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Livi Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 To be brutally honest I think the educated/responsible dog owners are far outweighed by the uneducated and/or irresponsible ones. Except through people I have met via dog shows, obedience and rescue I don't know one single person who has much of an interest in dogs, though I know many who own them One question, possibly stupid, but would a bitch who was sterilised as opposed to desexed (if that is the correct wording) still come into season ? I'm assuming they would. If so is it 'humane' to have a lot of animals in surburbia being driven crazy with the desire to mate, and being unable to do so ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 Okay correct me if im wrong but was the OP not going on about how desexing your pup early will keep them from cancer later on in life? Because well story time folks... My mutt who died of liver cancer at the age of 9 was desexed early while our purebred rottie was never fixed and died of bone cancer at 7yrs old.....So just because the dog is or isnt desexed does not slim down its chances of caner... MILLIONS of pups are desexed by the time they are 8 weeks and never have a single promblem(Talking about large breeds) IF it was such a promblem desexing your pup early then wouldnt we hear about it a hell of a lot more? I mean desexing early is not a new thing and hasnt been thrown up for debate until recently.. Skipy- It would be nice if people could hamdle none desexed dogs...but people cant handle a pit bull let alone a pit with attiude (because it wasnt desexed) And Silver- BSL KILLS a breed...while desexing at an early stage SAVES more dogs then it will ever kill or harm.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silverdog Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 (edited) - Edited February 26, 2008 by silverdog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted August 24, 2006 Share Posted August 24, 2006 This post, from another list I am on sums up the situation nicely. Please read it. It might give you something to think about. It’s already happening in the US. Don’t stick your head in the sand and think that it won’t happen in YOUR country. I LIVE in the USA! Michigan if you want to narrow down the place in the US I live. I see none of these problems. You sell a pup as a PET then you are NOT selling it as a BREEDING dog so then fix early Why the hell do you think we have so many DD?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadia Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Nothing like decreasing the size of the gene pool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 One question, possibly stupid, but would a bitch who was sterilised as opposed to desexed (if that is the correct wording) still come into season ? From what somebody said on this forum, I understand that they would not be 'smelled' by males, because although their estrogen levels would cycle (they would hormonally come into season), they would not have the uterus, and therefore would not be able to release "smells" that boys can sense....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 Have learnt a serious lesson here - next time I label a post "warning to breeders" I will mark it "BREEDERS ONLY" Have absolutely no problem with rescues being desexed early - as their health is probably already damaged by dam's stress, poor nutrition, early vaccination, early weaning, exposure to a vast number of viruses (in situations with lots of rescues) their new owners probably already expect issues, whether temperament or health. They are lucky to be alive, so who cares if they have a few problems. Many won't. I am talking about "responsibly" bred LARGE BREEDS Is this difference so difficult to fathom? I am talking about a wonderful, caring, responsible owner, who devotes her life to her furkids, being treated like an absolute nong, and being sold very expensive, damaged goods. She adores this pup, and would never consider "exchanging" it, but she should never have been put in this position. She was willing to pay a sizeable extra sum to be refunded when the pup was spayed at a decent age, but the breeder was so busy being "responsible" that she refused. Hell, she even produced a wonderful reference and plea for sanity from her vet - how many puppy buyers go to this length? As Silverdog says, the dog world is facing more and more legislation, which will affect each and every one of us. PETA will never rest until there are NO dogs. The AVA and the RSPCA forced the docking ban through in this country. The AVA is currently lobbying for the mandatory desexing of EVERY kitten and puppy at 8 weeks, unless going to registered breeders - and all the rescuers are jumping on the bandwagon. And we all know where BSL is heading, and how many breeds have already been added to this list in some parts of the country. And even before this legislation comes into being, breeders are being browbeaten into "politically correct" early desexing, with no thought of the consequences! Let's face it, few puppy mills target very large breeds, because they are so damn expensive to feed, and have a limited market... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordelia Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Have absolutely no problem with rescues being desexed early - as their health is probably already damaged by dam's stress, poor nutrition, early vaccination, early weaning, exposure to a vast number of viruses (in situations with lots of rescues) their new owners probably already expect issues, whether temperament or health. They are lucky to be alive, so who cares if they have a few problems. Many won't. Lovely attitude. Unlike you, those of us involved in rescue do care about the health and welfare of our dogs and pups.... and for the record... the vast majority DON'T have problems and their owners DON'T expect issues in health or temperament..... The difference is that we aren't elitist snobs like you and thank God most breeders I know aren't that way inclined either. Have learnt a serious lesson here - next time I label a post "warning to breeders" I will mark it "BREEDERS ONLY" Then you should have used your grey matter and put it in the BREEDERS FORUM. I am talking about a wonderful, caring, responsible owner, who devotes her life to her furkids, being treated like an absolute nong She was a nong. If she had SUCH strong concerns regarding early desexing she should have gone to another breeder who didn't desex their pups. Hardly rocket science to figure that out . Even with her reservations and recomendations from her vet she CHOSE to buy the pup anyway. And even before this legislation comes into being, breeders are being browbeaten into "politically correct" early desexing, with no thought of the consequences! Rubbish. Breeders are NOT being browbeaten into desexing young. It's their choice at this point. And there IS thought for the consequences of early desexing..... they're just different ones. Let's face it, few puppy mills target very large breeds, because they are so damn expensive to feed, and have a limited market... No, but BYB DO target many of the larger breeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 Then you should have used your grey matter and put it in the BREEDERS FORUM. Sorry - thought I was doing a HEALTH related post - which was turned into a RESCUE issue.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordelia Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Well then, it's open for anyone to join in. That includes us criminal rescue folk who like to damage little puppies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ellz Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 She was a nong. Forgive me for laughing....but oh dear.....Cordelia, you have SUCH a way with words!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordelia Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Why thank you ellz! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RottnBullies Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I think this is not only an interesting thread BUT also an Important one, It's a real shame that some of the posters here need to be Smart to get their points across Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 She was a nong. If she had SUCH strong concerns regarding early desexing she should have gone to another breeder who didn't desex their pups. Hardly rocket science to figure that out . Even with her reservations and recomendations from her vet she CHOSE to buy the pup anyway. Rubbish. Breeders are NOT being browbeaten into desexing young. It's their choice at this point. And there IS thought for the consequences of early desexing..... they're just different ones. Do you know how hard it is with some breeds to get a pup that is not desexed young? You think that is brilliant, I think that is horrific. I know how much love and dedication I put into pups that I get, and I will not have anybody give me damaged goods because of their lack of knowledge. The breeders have a choice, they might have a think about it (if vet says its OK, what is there to think about), but how many of them really research pros and cons of early desexing, or desexing at all, compared to the amount of research they put into researching pedigrees of the dogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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