cavNrott Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) . Edited May 9, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) CavnRott: You are calling desexed dogs damaged goods? I think Skipy is calling dogs desexed at 8 weeks a less than perfect dog. I'm with Skipy. There is no way in hell I'd buy a dog that was desexed at 8 weeks. Too many potential skeletal issues and the potential for developmental issues caused by lack of hormones is real. I saw the RSPCA study on early desexing. They concluded that it didn't cause long term problems. Their definition of "long term" was for only 5 weeks after desexing. Sure the surgery at that age doesn't cause problems - its the lack of hormones that does. Edited August 25, 2006 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cavNrott Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) . Edited May 9, 2009 by cavNrott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) All mine are desexed too CavnRott. However, there's no way I'd desex a male until at least 12 months old and having had one experience of letting a bitch have a season before desexing, I'd consider that too. I'd consider a dog desexed at 8 weeks to be 'damaged' from a development potential perspective. As I said, no way would I ever own one. Edited August 25, 2006 by poodlefan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 Poodlefan: What I was objecting to was the term 'DAMAGED GOODS' when referring to desexed dogs. My dogs are all dexesex (though not at 8 weeks of age) and they are in no way damaged goods. I used the term "damaged goods" to describe the akita that is now permanently undeveloped and with a resulting health problem due to being desexed at 8 weeks. There is NO way i would use the term to describe desexed animals in general. For example I personally believe every single SWF should be desexed for a start (but just before puberty) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordelia Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Do you know how hard it is with some breeds to get a pup that is not desexed young? I do actually. Not hard at all in Sydney. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poodlefan Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Morgan: For example I personally believe every single SWF should be desexed for a start (but just before puberty) Watch it Morgan... them's fighting words!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morgan Posted August 25, 2006 Author Share Posted August 25, 2006 Morgan:For example I personally believe every single SWF should be desexed for a start (but just before puberty) Watch it Morgan... them's fighting words!! Hehe - some of my favourite pooches are SWFs, but my oh my those boys can be oversexed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skipy Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) Poodlefan: What I was objecting to was the term 'DAMAGED GOODS' when referring to desexed dogs. My dogs are all dexesed (though not at 8 weeks of age) and they are in no way damaged goods.edited for spelling I meant at 8 weeks, and yes any dog that has ANY kind of health issues caused by any kind of a procedure, ie. was not born like that when sold is "damaged goods". I am not refering to all desexed dogs, which you would know if you read all the posts. Edited August 25, 2006 by Skipy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Just thought I'd add my two cents about why all dogs not intended for responsible breeding/showing in the future should be desexed. My close friend was recently "given" (yes for free) an entire purebred puppy at a dog show. Yes this dog will have a wonderful new home and be loved, well trained, exercised, socialised etc etc etc. But he will also be used to breed from..... She has already planned it. If only he had been desexed first (and he was over 8 weeks) then it wouldn't be happening. I've tried my darnedest to talk her into desexing but it ain't working. If all registered breeders were like those on DOL who vet their new owners as carefully as we do our rescue dogs, then there would be less backyard bred "purebred" dogs. Unfortunately being a registered breeder doesn't make you responsible and many of them are just happy to get rid of a pup and/or get some money out of it. I myself have bought a pup with papers from a dog show from a person who had never met me or spoken to me before. Having bought a pedigreed dog myself so easily I know that anyone else can - I even got told if I wanted to use him for breeding I needed to make sure I didn't get a bitch too closely related to him . I'm really sorry that this responsible owner has a dog with a problem from early desexing but if she was so anti early desexing she could have got one from a different breeder, who didn't desex early. All I know is that if more people desexed pups early I would have far less to rescue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peibe Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Jacq I love you, you managed to say exactly what I wanted to,cheers If Registered Breeders interviewed their new prospective owners as well as rescue there would be far less pups out there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) Okay my turn to add... Registered Breeders There IS Registered Breeders that ARE BYBS. Just because they are registerd does NOT in any way mean that their is not a chance that they are a BYB. for eg. there was a puppy mill rade not to long ago at this 'Registered Breeders '(Who even showed his dogs) .... and the things there Its unfair to say this but people need to open their eyes and REALLY look at the 'Registered Breeder' they are looking at. And please do not think i am agaisnt Registered Breeders because I live in a house hold with one and no we are not BYB nor do we inbreed... Edited August 25, 2006 by my_sibe_owns_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
my_sibe_owns_me Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) All mine are desexed too CavnRott. However, there's no way I'd desex a male until at least 12 months old and having had one experience of letting a bitch have a season before desexing, I'd consider that too.I'd consider a dog desexed at 8 weeks to be 'damaged' from a development potential perspective. As I said, no way would I ever own one. What has this bloody world come to!!!!! IF I have a bitch that is JUST a pet she will NEVER see her first season!! Whats the piont if you are just gonna get her fixed anyways? Do you really want to put up with the temperment, bleeding, trying to keep her away from males ect........ IF I had a male as PET he would be desexed well before 6mo. Edited August 25, 2006 by my_sibe_owns_me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AussieGTA Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) I hate coming into a topic like this so late, you never know if anyone is bothering to read it anymore First I would like to say to all the rescue people out there Hats off to you. Hopefully in the future I will be in a position to help (rescue or at least foster) There have been many different views posted on here about this subject, and the debate seems to change from anti-desexing to anti-early desexing. My comments will be on the later. I am in favour of desexing, but not early desexing in reg. pedigree dogs, rescues I believe are in a different class. Why I hear you say, not for the same exact reason as mentioned earlier. If I went to buy a rescue I fully understand why a rescue org would want the dog desexed before it leaves. I DO understand your logic and fully support you. When I go to a reg. breeder however I am buying a pup that I expect will give little problems during its life. Other than the fact that I am forking out well over 1K for the pup I do not want to be spending even more money in 8yrs time dealing with bad hips etc. The fact is once the breeder has sold the pup any health problems down the road will be my responsibilty not theirs, and I would like a say in the future health of my dog. There are people on here saying that millions of pups are desexed early with no problems, what you seem to be missing is we are not talking about problems from the procedure only, we are talking about problems later in life due to hormone problems early in life. The below link is a very good article dealing with this issue. Unlike another link on here it is not based on emotion or the pushing of a cause, it is a scientific study done over a couple of year and states the breeds, ages, percentages effected etc etc. Please take the time to read it and understand the anti-early desex point of view. http://www.caninesports.com/EarlySpayConsiderations.pdf Edited August 25, 2006 by AussieGTA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadia Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Jacq I love you, you managed to say exactly what I wanted to,cheersIf Registered Breeders interviewed their new prospective owners as well as rescue there would be far less pups out there No failures in Rescue huh, no bouncing Rescue dogs huh, what a load of bunkum, Rescue dogs always go to permanent loving homes...... You always have to turn in into a RESCUE VS BREEDERS thing, get over it. Responsible breeders get bashed here as much as the BYBs, it is what some of the recue folk do best. I breed, I rescue, I desex, but I don't early desex...get over that too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 (edited) Double post Edited August 25, 2006 by Trisven13 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Nadia I REGULARLY recommend people go to registered breeders to get a dog. I have looked up breeders on DOL for many many enquiries I have had, passed on details, told them things to ask about, what to expect from a good breeder etc etc. I very rarely bag a registered breeder but come on, even you must admit that giving an entire pup away for free is not responsible, nor is selling one to a person you haven't done anymore than say hello to. As I have witnessed this happen twice in three visits to dog shows it must happen more often. It is things like that that lead me to say that there are definitely breeders out there who don't screen as carefully as rescue. And yes, of course our dogs bounce back at times but that is another point, we always take them back. I had one breeder in Albury recently tell me that it was unreasonable to expect a breeder to always take back a dog they bred. Edited to add... My recommendations to people to see a registered breeder have come from the reading I have made on this site of the Breeder's Forum which led me to believe that registered breeders honestly cared about their pups and what happened to them over the course of their life. Things I have discovered through my personal visits to dog shows and phone calls to breeders of dogs and Breed Clubs has led me to realise that not all breeders are as responsible as those on the Breeders Forum here. The breeder of the pup by the OP was, IMO, trying to be responsible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nadia Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 I reccomend people adopt from Rescue as well, I simply don't understand why this has to always turn into a Rescue Vs Breeder bash everytime. I do not support early desexing of all animals. I do support desexing. I do Rescue, I don't hate X breeds. But I will not early desex MY puppies that I breed, my choice for my puppies. There are good Breeders, there are good Rescues and there are bad, in both. I'm sorry Trsicen that you have not had good experiences with Breeders, I could say the same about Rescues, but I still contiue with my work and support the ones who do it properly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trisven13 Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 It doesn't stop me recommending people who want a purebred dog to a registered breeder Nadia, don't worry . I just hope that there are more good than bad. I suppose my point is that if you are a responsible registered breeder you can rehome an 8 week old pup undesexed with a desexing contract that you enforce as much as you possibly can BUT too many registered breeders don't seem to care about whether a dog is desexed or not once it leaves them and that is what leads to so many backyard purebred dogs who require rescue. I have had many good experiences with registered breeders as well, just wish that rescue of their breed was as important to them as other parts of owning their breed. I love that saying "I breed therefore I rescue" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lilypily Posted August 25, 2006 Share Posted August 25, 2006 Morgan I agree totally with you. And before I get the " go visit a shelter and look at pups" comment. I have worked at a 'kill' shelter and assisted in euthanasing of these 'accidental matings'. I am also a Veterinary Nurse. I had my female pup desexed at 5 months. I had no problem in being a responsible owner for those 3 extra months. I am a de-sexing advocate, but not before 5 months of age. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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