Jump to content

Annual Heartworm Injections Adverse Reactions


evelin
 Share

Recommended Posts

Our dog Tobie's death is being investigated very seriously by the APVMA (Australian Pesticides and Veterinary Medicine Authority). This is a Government authority. The annual heartworm injection, in the opinion of our Vets and also in our opinion, was instrumental in the death of our beloved pet. In our communications with the APVMA, they have stressed strongly that they urge pet owners to report any adverse reactions, or suspected adverse reactions their pets may have to any veterinary product, whether it be the annual heartworm injection, or any other product. They need to monitor what is happening to our pets and will take reports from pet owners, not just the vets treating them. Every report will be looked into. So please, if you have an adverse reaction, or suspect one, to the heartworm injection or any other vet product, report it to the APVMA. Here are the details:

APVMA Adverse Experience Reporting Program: Robyn Schipp Tel. (02) 6210 4810

Fax.(02) 6210 4813

Email: [email protected]

Mail: P.O. Box E240 Kingston ACT 2604

If any of you out there are considering giving your dog the annual heartworm injection, please do some research first. Most vets believe it is safe and are unaware that it was taken off the market in the U.S. in 2004 and that in Canada, they have re-labelled it with a warning that it should only be used where alternative preventatives cannot be effectively administered:

As the label states "Because of its potential for serious adverse drug reactions and the absence of identifiable risk factors associated with those reactions, ProHeart6 is only indicated for those dogs in which alternative preventatives cannot be effectively administered." You can check for yourselves on:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/vet/advers-...e_a_jour_e.html

Proheart6 is the 6 monthly injection, whereas Proheart 12 is the annual injection that we have here in Australia. Proheart 12 has three times the active ingredient Moxidectin in it, according to the manufacturers Fort Dodge/Wyeth Pharmaceuticals.

Here is a link to a speech made to the U.S. Veterinary Medicine Advisory Committee, by one of the vets involved in the

case where the heartworm injection was taken off the market in the U.S. in 2004 and is still off the market. This is the SAME DRUG as we have here in Australia, according to the manufacturers, only it has THREE TIMES the active ingredient Moxidectin in it.

http://www.thepetguardian.com/html/body_vm...ech_rogers.html

Does anyone out there have any suspected adverse reactions?

Please let me have some feedback on this.

Cheers Evelin

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • Replies 99
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Thanks for the info, I just had our boy vacc'd for h/worm a month ago. This month he got a rash that the vet put down to atopic reaction to a flea bite , will keep an eye out now you've warned me. What was the cause of death of your dog? anything definative?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So sorry to hear about your poor dog evelin.

Good to hear that his death is being treated seriously. I still cannot understand why this drug is still so heavily promoted and used in this country after all the problems in the US and Canada. We must be slow learners here :thumbsup:

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Thanks for the info, I just had our boy vacc'd for h/worm a month ago. This month he got a rash that the vet put down to atopic reaction to a flea bite , will keep an eye out now you've warned me. What was the cause of death of your dog? anything definative?

Tobie died of Immune Mediated Thromobcytopenia 6 weeks after the heartworm injection. This is an auto-immune disease, one of several similar reactions seen by vets after administration of the heartworm injection. He had hardly any platelets in his blood, his white blood count was up and the red was down.The year before after his first heartworm injection, he developed Hemorrhagic Gastroenteritis, also one of the reactions seen by vets after the heartworm injection. At the time we were unaware of the cause. Here are some links that will give you more info:

http://www.dogsadversereactions.com/moxide.../reactions.html

http://www.dogsadversereactions.com

It is important to report any reaction, even if just a rash, to the APVMA. It is just a phone call, fax or email and at least if something else goes wrong, you have some back up. The reports are all kept confidential. It is not worth taking a chance with your pet.

Good luck with your boy.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So sorry to hear about your poor dog evelin.

Good to hear that his death is being treated seriously. I still cannot understand why this drug is still so heavily promoted and used in this country after all the problems in the US and Canada. We must be slow learners here :thumbsup:

HI MORGAN, THANKS FOR YOUR SYMPATHY. WE ARE FINDING IT VERY HARD TO GET OVER TOBIE'S DEATH, ESPECIALLY AS IT COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED HAD WE BEEN MORE INFORMED.

I THINK HERE IN OZ WE ARE NOT AWARE OF WHAT HAS GONE ON OVERSEAS. IT IS ALL THERE ON THE INTERNET, IN OFFICIAL DOCUMENTATION IF WE KNOW WHERE TO LOOK, BUT MOST PEOPLE WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW WHERE TO START.

WE NEED TO BE MORE VIGILANT AND ALSO VOCAL ABOUT ADVERSE REACTIONS. REPORTING THEM TO THE APVMA IS A GOOD START AS THEY REALLY WANT TO HEAR FROM THE PUBLIC. THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE TOLD ME IN MY CONVERSATIONS WITH THEM.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR KIND THOUGHTS

EVELIN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So sorry for your loss, it's never easy to part with a loved one.

When in the US I had a my 3 dogs treated with the annual heart worm injection, all were working gundogs in excellent physically condition and "pretty tough". My Britt experienced considerable pain from this injection, she ran around in circles attempting to bite the site of the injection for 5 mins after the injection and then developed a rash on the site. The vet in the US said it was common for dogs to get a "bit of a sting" from the injection, but my dog's reaction was the worst he'd seen.

Naturally since then I've used the monthly heartworm treatment, rather than the injection. I'm back in Oz now and my vet here asked me recently why I still used monthly treatment when the annual injection was so much more convenient. I told him of my experiences in the USA, he said the US formulation was different the one here in Oz? He was also saying that he used a vaccination (designed to illicit an immune response from the body such as antibodies, rather than the injection itself containing a chemical active agent), rather than the chemical based prevention. However, prompted by your post I searched for heartworm vaccinations and turn up very little info, a few sites mentioning an S12 vaccination, but the vast majority were about the chemical based prevention? I will check back with my vet regarding the heartworm injection (vaccination/prevention??) he uses. I'll be sticking with the monthly chewables.

Again, sorry for your loss and thanks for taking the time to warn others.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im so sorry to hear this .

I just really wish that dog owners were given all the info on stuff like this before they are sucked into just doing what ever their vet recommends . The vet is fed by the drug food companies and thats not necessarily the whole story.

Short story is that I went to my vet about 10 years ago and they recommended I use a drug which costs me about a cent a month which is in some of the heart worm meds rather than buy it as it was marketed for around $20 a month. I'd never used heart worm meds until then so I though she was a hero and had provided me with a way to keep my dogs healthy and save me money. 6 months after all manner of things started happening in my breeding dogs that I had never seen before. One thing about having as many dogs as I do is that when something like this is going on its obvious and because of that you pick it up quickly rather than most dog owners who dont pick it up as easily. I also met another breeder who had put their dogs on this at around the same time and she was complaining about things that were going on in her yard as well.

After months of research we realised the only thing different and that we both had in common was the heart worm drug.

So we went on a mission to research the drug from a science point rather than a marketing one and by passed what the drug companies had to say.

The answers I got made me as mad as hell at my vet because I couldnt work out why if I could find this info that they didnt have the same but then realized they really do have to rely on what the drug companies tell them and they dont go off and do their own research each time a new drug is presented.

Anyway , after I got the answers , I could see that if I put a drug like this into my blood stream and let it sit there for a month , 6 months or a year that I would expect to get sick , that I would expect it may cause immune system problems and possibly shorten my life span or affect my baby if I got preganant. Then I looked at the testing process, the known side effects to the drug and adverse reactions. But I also went and looked at how my dogs could get heartworm and what would happen if they did.

In the beginning when the meds were first bought out vets were given free test kits and it was later found that the lavea were actually stuck to the slides in the factory so that when the vet looked under the scope they thought they saw heartworm lavae which implied it was much more common in their area and they started pushing for everyone to give the stuff to their dogs.

Even if I live in an area where there are lots of mozzies , my dogs have to get bitten by a particular species of mozzie within a short space of time ,and within a short distance since they bit another dog which had heartworm, the temperature had to stay the same [ from memory over 38 degrees] for about 10 days . Anyway it turned out the chances of my dogs getting bitten by a mozzie that carried heartworm were so remote it was stupid to even suggest I should need a drug for this.

I also looked at how breeeding dogs were even more likely to be affected by adverse reactions which no one would put down to the heart worm meds as well and how a healthy dog could fight off heartworm as a normal immune response.

There are some areas which definitely have a higher risk of a dog getting heartworm than others but there are other methods of preventing this than a yearly or monthly shot of something thats going to brew away in their immune system.

Some dogs die pretty quickly from a sensitivity to it but who's to say that many of the things we see later on arent a direct result of these drugs as well.

Before you agree to allowing your dog be treated with anything research the drug not the product and a good rule of thumb is - would you expect yourself or kids to get sick if you were exposed to or ingested this drug ?

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have not used regular heartworm medication for over a decade - my kennels are indoors, and mosquito proof. I carefully weighed up the risk to my breeding dogs from the medication compared to homoeopathic treatment if heartworm did rear it's ugly head, and preferred the treatment option.

I am also religious about not having anywhere mosquitos can breed, and on acreage this does limit the population somewhat.

Every heartworm test I have had done has come up perfectly clear, and only one of my dogs has any health problems.

We don't even use horse wormers that contain Moxidectin, as dogs have died from eating their post-treatment manure - not about to inject the stuff into them!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

So sorry for your loss, it's never easy to part with a loved one.

When in the US I had a my 3 dogs treated with the annual heart worm injection, all were working gundogs in excellent physically condition and "pretty tough". My Britt experienced considerable pain from this injection, she ran around in circles attempting to bite the site of the injection for 5 mins after the injection and then developed a rash on the site. The vet in the US said it was common for dogs to get a "bit of a sting" from the injection, but my dog's reaction was the worst he'd seen.

Naturally since then I've used the monthly heartworm treatment, rather than the injection. I'm back in Oz now and my vet here asked me recently why I still used monthly treatment when the annual injection was so much more convenient. I told him of my experiences in the USA, he said the US formulation was different the one here in Oz? He was also saying that he used a vaccination (designed to illicit an immune response from the body such as antibodies, rather than the injection itself containing a chemical active agent), rather than the chemical based prevention. However, prompted by your post I searched for heartworm vaccinations and turn up very little info, a few sites mentioning an S12 vaccination, but the vast majority were about the chemical based prevention? I will check back with my vet regarding the heartworm injection (vaccination/prevention??) he uses. I'll be sticking with the monthly chewables.

Again, sorry for your loss and thanks for taking the time to warn others.

THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONDOLENCES AND THE INFO YOU HAVE GIVEN. MOST VETS HERE THINK THE INJECTION IS SAFE. MY VETS WILL NOT USE IT AGAIN AND THE WHOLE VET CLINIC IS IN SHOCK. WE ARE WAITING FOR RESULTS OF THE INVESTIGATION. YOU CAN FIND A LOT OF INFO ON THE FOLLOWING SITE;

http://www.dogsadversereactions.com

TOBIE'S MEMORIAL IS ALSO ON THIS SITE WHICH WAS STARTED BY A LADY IN THE U.S. WHOSE DOG ALMOST DIED FROM THE INJECTION. THERE ARE MANY OTHER MEMORIALS ON THIS SITE AND LOTS OF INFO ON MOXIDECTIN, WHICH IS THE ACTIVE INGREDIENT IN THE INJECTIONS.

ACCORDING TO THE MANUFACTURERS, THE 6 MONTH (NOW OFF THE MARKET IN THE U.S. SINCE 2004) AND THE 12 MONTH THAT WE HAVE IN AUSTRALIA ARE THE SAME, EXCEPT THAT THE 12 MONTHLY INJECTION HAS 3 TIMES THE ACTIVE INGREDIENT MOXIDECTIN IN IT. FORT DODGE AUSTRALIA SENT ME THIS INFORMATION THEMSELVES AFTER I INQUIRED ABOUT IT. OF COURSE THEY ARE VERY DEFENSIVE ABOUT THEIR PRODUCT. HOWEVER THEY DID REPORT TOBIE'S DEATH TO THE APVMA, AS DID MY VET, SO IT IS BEING TAKEN SERIOUSLY. A PRODUCT WHICH IS UNPROVEN AND CAUSED 5,500 ADVERSE REACTIONS AND 599 DEATHS IN THE U.S. SHOULD NOT BE USED IN OUR OPINION, UNTIL IT IS PROVEN TO BE PERFECTLY SAFE.

GOOD ON YOU FOR STAYING WITH THE MONTHLY CHEWABLES. HAD I DONE THAT, MY TOBIE WOULD STILL BE WITH US.

YOU CAN GOOGLE MOXIDECTIN AND ALSO GET INFO. IF YOU NEED ANY OTHER INFO, PLEASE LET ME KNOW AS I HAVE A LOT OF RESEARCH MATERIAL AT HAND NOW. ALL TOO LATE OF COURSE FOR LITTLE TOBIE. BUT IF THAT RESEARCH INFO CAN SAVE OTHERS, HIS DEATH WAS NOT IN VAIN.

ANOTHER INTERESTING SITE IS THE SPEECH GIVEN BY THE VET TO THE FDA (FEDERAL DRUG AUTHORITY) IN THE U.S. AFTER THE 6 MONTHLY PRODUCT WAS TAKEN OFF THE MARKET THERE:

http://www.thepetguardian.com/html/body_vm...ech_rogers.html

YOU CAN SHOW THIS INFO TO YOUR VET. IT IS ALL OFFICIAL DOCUMENTED INFORMATION THAT ANYONE CAN GET.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR KIND THOUGHTS.

EVELIN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Sorry to hear about Tobie.

Breeds such as shelties, border collies and rough collies are know to have an Ivermectin sensitivity and it is not recommended that these dogs have a heartworm injection.

HI HESAPANDABEAR,

THANK YOU FOR YOUR CONDOLENCES. AS FAR AS THE HEARTWORM INJECTION GOES, THE MANUFACTURERS STATE THAT IT IS SAFE TO USE ON IVERMECTIN SENSITIVE COLLIES. PLEASE READ THESE LINKS FOR MORE INFO.

http://www.dogsadversereactions.com

http://www.thepetguardian.com/html/body_vm...ech_rogers.html

ALSO IF YOU RING THE APVMA ON (02) 6210 4810 OR EMAIL ROBYN SCHIPP AT [email protected] SHE CAN GIVE YOU SOME MORE INFORMATION. (THIS IS OUR OWN AUSTRALIAN PESTICIDES AND VETERINARY MEDICINE AUTHORITY AND THEY MONITOR EVERYTHING). THEIR WEBSITE IS http://www.apvma.gov.au and their response to the recall of the 6 monthly injection in the U.S. in 2004 is on this link:

http://www.apvma.gov.au/qa/proheart.shtml

HOPING THIS IS OF SOME HELP.

EVELIN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Im so sorry to hear this .

I just really wish that dog owners were given all the info on stuff like this before they are sucked into just doing what ever their vet recommends . The vet is fed by the drug food companies and thats not necessarily the whole story.

Short story is that I went to my vet about 10 years ago and they recommended I use a drug which costs me about a cent a month which is in some of the heart worm meds rather than buy it as it was marketed for around $20 a month. I'd never used heart worm meds until then so I though she was a hero and had provided me with a way to keep my dogs healthy and save me money. 6 months after all manner of things started happening in my breeding dogs that I had never seen before. One thing about having as many dogs as I do is that when something like this is going on its obvious and because of that you pick it up quickly rather than most dog owners who dont pick it up as easily. I also met another breeder who had put their dogs on this at around the same time and she was complaining about things that were going on in her yard as well.

After months of research we realised the only thing different and that we both had in common was the heart worm drug.

So we went on a mission to research the drug from a science point rather than a marketing one and by passed what the drug companies had to say.

The answers I got made me as mad as hell at my vet because I couldnt work out why if I could find this info that they didnt have the same but then realized they really do have to rely on what the drug companies tell them and they dont go off and do their own research each time a new drug is presented.

Anyway , after I got the answers , I could see that if I put a drug like this into my blood stream and let it sit there for a month , 6 months or a year that I would expect to get sick , that I would expect it may cause immune system problems and possibly shorten my life span or affect my baby if I got preganant. Then I looked at the testing process, the known side effects to the drug and adverse reactions. But I also went and looked at how my dogs could get heartworm and what would happen if they did.

In the beginning when the meds were first bought out vets were given free test kits and it was later found that the lavea were actually stuck to the slides in the factory so that when the vet looked under the scope they thought they saw heartworm lavae which implied it was much more common in their area and they started pushing for everyone to give the stuff to their dogs.

Even if I live in an area where there are lots of mozzies , my dogs have to get bitten by a particular species of mozzie within a short space of time ,and within a short distance since they bit another dog which had heartworm, the temperature had to stay the same [ from memory over 38 degrees] for about 10 days . Anyway it turned out the chances of my dogs getting bitten by a mozzie that carried heartworm were so remote it was stupid to even suggest I should need a drug for this.

I also looked at how breeeding dogs were even more likely to be affected by adverse reactions which no one would put down to the heart worm meds as well and how a healthy dog could fight off heartworm as a normal immune response.

There are some areas which definitely have a higher risk of a dog getting heartworm than others but there are other methods of preventing this than a yearly or monthly shot of something thats going to brew away in their immune system.

Some dogs die pretty quickly from a sensitivity to it but who's to say that many of the things we see later on arent a direct result of these drugs as well.

Before you agree to allowing your dog be treated with anything research the drug not the product and a good rule of thumb is - would you expect yourself or kids to get sick if you were exposed to or ingested this drug ?

DEAR STEVE,

GOOD ON YOU FOR ALL THE RESEARCH YOU HAVE DONE AND THAT YOU ARE SHARING IT WITH OTHER PET OWNERS. YOU ARE RIGHT ABOUT RESEARCHING THE DRUG AND NOT THE PRODUCT. VETS DON'T HAVE TIME TO DO THIS RESEARCH AND REALLY DO DEPEND ON THE MANUFACTURERS FOR INFORMATION. YOU ARE DEFINITELY ON THE RIGHT TRACK TO PROTECTING YOUR DOGS. DID YOU EVER REPORT THE ADVERSE REACTIONS YOUR DOGS HAD? IF NOT, WOULD YOU CONSIDER LETTING THE APVMA KNOW? THEY ARE KEEN FOR FEEDBACK FROM PET OWNERS. THIS IS WHAT THEY HAVE TOLD ME AFTER I SPOKE TO THEM. ALL REPORTS OR DISCUSSIONS ARE KEPT CONFIDENTIAL AND IT WOULD BE SO GOOD FOR THEM TO HAVE SOMETHING ELSE TO LOOK INTO. IF WE, AS PET OWNERS, SPEAK UP FOR OUR ANIMALS, THE APVMA WILL LISTEN AND DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. IF THEY HAVE NO FEED BACK OR ADVERSE REACTION REPORTS FROM PET OWNERS, THEY ARE UNAWARE THAT SOMETHING IS GOING WRONG. WE NEED TO HELP THEM IF THEY ARE TO HELP US. IT WAS ONLY BECAUSE OF ALL THE REPORTS FROM PET OWNERS AND/OR THEIR VETS IN THE U.S. THAT MADE THE FDA OVER THERE TAKE THE PRODUCT (6 MONTHLY INJECTION) OFF THE MARKET. IN CANADA, ALTHOUGH IT IS STILL ON THE MARKET, THEY HAVE RELABELLED IT WITH THE FOLLOWING, AND ARE MONITORING IT CLOSELY:

"BECAUSE OF ITS POTENTIAL FOR SERIOUS ADVERSE DRUG REACTIONS AND THE ABSENCE OF IDENTIFIABLE RISK FACTORS ASSOCIATED WITH THOSE REACTIONS, PROHEART 6 IS ONLY INDICATED FOR THOSE DOGS IN WHICH ALTERNATIVE PREVENTATIVES CANNOT BE EFFECTIVELY ADMINISTERED".

YOU CAN CHECK THIS YOURSELF ON THIS OFFICIAL HEALTH CANADA LINK:

http://www.hc-sc.gc.ca/dhp-mps/vet/advers-...e_a_jour_e.html

REMEMBER THAT, ACCORDING TO THE MANUFACTURERS, FORT DODGE/WYETH: "PROHEART 12 HAS GAINED A 47% MARKET SHARE IN AUSTRALIA, WHERE IT OFFERS 12 MONTHS OF PROTECTION AND CONTAINS 3 TIMES THE AMOUNT OF MOXIDECTIN AS PROHEART 6". THIS INFORMATION CAME FROM FORT DODGE AUSTRALIA AND SO THE PRODUCTS ARE THE SAME EXCEPT THAT THE 12 MONTHS VERSION HAS MORE MOXIDECTIN IN IT.

THANK YOU AGAIN FOR YOUR CONDOLENCES AND ALL THE GOOD INFORMATION THAT I AM SURE WILL BE OF GREAT HELP TO EVERYONE.

EVELIN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I have not used regular heartworm medication for over a decade - my kennels are indoors, and mosquito proof. I carefully weighed up the risk to my breeding dogs from the medication compared to homoeopathic treatment if heartworm did rear it's ugly head, and preferred the treatment option.

I am also religious about not having anywhere mosquitos can breed, and on acreage this does limit the population somewhat.

Every heartworm test I have had done has come up perfectly clear, and only one of my dogs has any health problems.

We don't even use horse wormers that contain Moxidectin, as dogs have died from eating their post-treatment manure - not about to inject the stuff into them!

DEAR MORGAN

I TRULY WISH I HAD RESEARCHED THE PRODUCT BEFORE ALLOWING MY VET TO USE IT. IT WAS OFFERED TO ME INSTEAD OF THE MONTHLY TABLETS AND MY VETS BELIEVED IT TO BE SAFE. I SO REGRET MY IGNORANCE. (AND THEY TRULY REGRET THEIRS).

COULD YOU PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT THE HOMEOPATHIC TREATMENT IS? THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS. EVELIN

Link to comment
Share on other sites

DEAR MORGAN

I TRULY WISH I HAD RESEARCHED THE PRODUCT BEFORE ALLOWING MY VET TO USE IT. IT WAS OFFERED TO ME INSTEAD OF THE MONTHLY TABLETS AND MY VETS BELIEVED IT TO BE SAFE. I SO REGRET MY IGNORANCE. (AND THEY TRULY REGRET THEIRS).

COULD YOU PLEASE LET ME KNOW WHAT THE HOMEOPATHIC TREATMENT IS? THANK YOU FOR YOUR COMMENTS. EVELIN

Many years ago my vet gave me the procedure for homoeopathic heartworm treatment - have since lost it, but Diana Hayes does a heartworm treatment program.

It involved using increasing strengths of Arsenicum, starting at the 6x one, over a number of weeks, followed by the Heartworm nosode. The dog had to be kept quiet, as is done with orthodox treatment, to prevent pieces of dead heartworm lodging where they shouldn't. She always used it on elderly or very unwell dogs that she felt wouldn't cope with the normal method.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Point is but especially for breeding dogs even the monthly heart worm meds are a potential problem .

We all need to assess whether or not our own dogs are truly at risk of getting heartworm and we should be informed of the possible adverse side affects of any of the meds .We should also be able to access information on what our choices are as a normal right .

When symptoms show pretty soon after the vaccination its more obvious that we should be looking at the drugs but what of the things which may take a lot longer to show up. Thyroid problems , immune related issues, allergies etc or even lowered sperm counts wont be something thats going to be proven to be impacted on by the drugs unless different and longer studies are undertaken which are not sponsored by the drug companies .

Once the MDBA gets their nutrition research program underway we will be testing the impact of heart worm meds on a dog's health , immune system and breeding issues . This should be started around June 2007. Then hopefully around December 2007 there will be one based on how vaccinations passed the first birthday may also affect the immune system.

Its going to take us about 10 years to gather all of the data but with all 3 studies Im expecting that along the way we will be able to offer some unique resources to owners and breeders which will help them to make educated decisions.

Because we wont have any sponsorship or donations from food or drug companies funding is a consideration but it all looks like being able to go ahead and the nutritional one is guaranteed to start in the next few months. The heartworm and vaccination studies will be much easier to put together [ I hope]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
 Share


×
×
  • Create New...