Defensive Pooch!

[nuttyboutdoggys]

Hi all.. need some training/teaching tips for doggy that is getting worse.

Ok, so don't know what to do anymore. He is so agressive when my OH and i take him to doggy park.

As soon as he gets through the gate and all the happy chappys come to snif his rear he snaps at them.. teeth bared, growling everything... this is often followed by a grammy award wining act of i'm being murderd, i'm dying (bone shattering screams and the like).

After the last trip i was in tears crying in the car, i want it to be a happy experience.

As a puppy he did get attcked visciously by Labs (6 all up) all dif colours, i can see he has been more agressive to this breed than any other. He loves neighbours dog poodle x spaniel. he has met other dogs large and small amongst our friends and has been ever so friendly and plays like a puppy. we went on hollidays 2yrs ago and took him with us with our friends Lab X, GSD, maltese and they all lived happily for the week??!!

he has always loved puppys, no matter what the breed.

he's ok walking down the street and saying hi to passers by (dogs).

However recently this has changed he doesn't even like puppys anymore.. he is becoming more and more withdrawn at the park.

what gets me more puzzled is he gets so excited to when it's time to get in the car, he looks out the window the whole way there.. as soon as we pull up in car park hi tail couldn't wag any faster.. he yaps in delight.. jumps out and runs to the gates.. by the time we're in.. he's completely diff... attacking and growling left right and centre.

I can understand the initial meet and greet can be scarey especially when 10 dogs run up to say hi.. however some days there's only 2 other dogs there and he still acts as though his world is coming to an end. (if there are too many i often pick him up, wait till they all bugger off again and then lace him on the ground) we aren't aggressive, we tell him it's ok (never touch him as i think this is not good???!!) when he calms, that split second is when we say good boy, not when he's aggressive.. when he snapps we say Aa-aaah! (don't know how to type the sound)..

he is only 3yrs old going on 4.. and acts like a grumpy old man. One of the regulars had a chat to me about it and asked how old was he.. her jaw dropped to the ground.. geeez he acts so old and cranky!

i now have got to the point where his agression shuts me down.. i can't function, i'm in shock.

I don't want his behaviour to effect the young dogs down there, as this is their social time... and we all go their to escpae, lets face it!

what to do... he has the worst case of lil'dog syndrome.. he's not mine.. but my mother wouldn't spend the time to correct this (sad i know, but she doesn't seem to know what i'm talking about, apparently his nothing like that with her. Maybe she's not telling me everything)

any one delt with this? any trainers on here suggest what to do?

- Thanks in advance,

M.

[poodlefan]

As soon as he gets through the gate and all the happy chappys come to snif his rear he snaps at them.. teeth bared, growling everything... this is often followed by a grammy award wining act of i'm being murderd, i'm dying (bone shattering screams and the like).

I think he's telling them (and trying to tell you) in no uncertain terms that he doesn't enjoy being crowded by a bunch of strange dogs (most of whom no doubt are bigger than him) and he's trying to defend himself. It's getting worse because he's trying to be more and more assertive to get them away from him and you are continuing to let the crowding occur.

Why take him to the park if he finds is so stressful? Other owners are doing the wrong thing by allowing their dogs to crowd him and I expect it will not improve while he is subjected to such behaviour. You'd be better off finding a quiet place with good under control dogs and letting him try to interact one on one with a quiet small dog.

You could seek professional help but frankly I don't see how this dog is reacting as "abnormal". It's your job to protect him from unwanted attention from other dogs and frankly you aren't doing it. I'd say the problem is not him defending himself but that you keep putting him in the situation where he feels the need to and then don't help him. This is a dog that's been attacked right? And you continue to subject him to being crowded by strange dogs? Have a think about it.

Geeze I hate public offlead parks. So many undesireable behaviours develop in them.

Edited February 28, 2007 by poodlefan

[nuttyboutdoggys]

thanks for your response.

i have tried it in the park accross the road with the neighbours dog, he has gone for her now????

is it something to do with open spaces?

[poodlefan]

Nope. I think its a learned response to unwanted attention from other dogs. He's now opting for a "preemptive strike" to keep other dogs at their distance.

This is most definitely a behaviour that can be improved with work from an experienced professional canine behaviouralist. However, by continuing to place him in situations where he feels the need to defend himself from strange dogs, you are ramping up the behaviour.

You simply cannot control the behaviour of other dogs in public offlead parks. I would not be taking this dog there.

[nuttyboutdoggys]

This is really hard, because i'm not his "owner".. i'm the sub-mum when my mother is away...

i have had a few other dogs (all large) and never had ongoing drama.

i know he should be protected, i didn't want to be stressing him out. My OH and i are dog nutts and love going to the park to learn about the dif breeds and what we might eventually get.

i think with your advice, we will do this still, just minus Taro.

eddited cause i can't spell.

Edited February 28, 2007 by nuttyboutdoggys

[persephone]

Poor little thing

I am thinking it is "Post Traumatic Stress"

He is feeling very vulnerable, and cannot use his "flight response" to escape the perceived danger, so he fights. Simple.

My Suggestions? Give the poor tyke walks somewhere dog-free to build up his confidence...let him play with his dog friends, and consult a good behaviourist before exposing him to groups of large dogs again .

[nuttyboutdoggys]

This is what i mean though.. it's not the size anymore. it's all dogs.

i hardly see him, as i said he's mum's boy, not mine. (IMHO i wish he wasn't with her, she travels so much - and this is a whole other prob. he gets depressed when she's gone he's scared of suit-cases now) my OH and i try our best to make his stay full of fun and activites - hence the trips to doggy park - we care about him, evidence by my desperate post. i hope you all can see that any way.

i'm not expecting over night miracles either. but prehaps he's just one of those rare few who are happy being solitary and not company of others anymore.(dogs - HE LOOOOVES HUMANS)

[persephone]

As long as he has a few doggy friends, and some good human ones like you he has a lot to look forward to

[nuttyboutdoggys]

oh, sorry one more thing.

as i was saying, if he knows this "preemtive strike" behaviour.. why does he get so excited? as soon as we make the last turn he's jumping out the window practicly, i have to hold on! jumps out the car woo-wooing to the other dogs.. through first gate he's still happy noses to the fence with others, then as soon as he's on the other side he's angry as all hell...

i get confused.. if he's so stressed and so against the park why does he do this every time?? he shows no dislike until the fence is "removed"

i just don't get it.. yet we drive to a dif park with no dogs and he has no reaction , bored if anything??? i don't get it.

[persephone]

well, he loves the outing, the smells and the limited interaction...the anticipation of all this

THEN his space is violated, and he reacts.While he is in 'his' car or in the big park...he is confident. THEN once he is in "Their" territory, he reacts.

[nuttyboutdoggys]

well, he loves the outing, the smells and the limited interaction...the anticipation of all this

THEN his space is violated, and he reacts.While he is in 'his' car or in the big park...he is confident. THEN once he is in "Their" territory, he reacts.

ahhh ok. so if we can reconigse the behaviour, would there be hope of maybe changing his behaviour?

i just don't want to give up on him yet, and say "oh, well he's just anti-social" and leave it at that.

[persephone]

agreed! Contact a behaviourist, and let them do an evaluation With any luck, and a lot of work, he can once again be part of a "pack" in the park!

[nuttyboutdoggys]

agreed! Contact a behaviourist, and let them do an evaluation :D With any luck, and a lot of work, he can once again be part of a "pack" in the park!

again... i'm doing this from my heart.. Mum couldn't care less, she won't "pay" for specialist. i would pay but not in work currently (health issues) - all my money is going towards medical bills.

i just was aware we have a great team on here, many specialists in all feilds, was just hoping some "free" advice might be ok from anyone?

ideal world i raised him.. any behaviour that came up would be on phone straight away to get trainer/ behaviourlist out before i hung up the phone. I don't have the authority to do this (i do love my mother, however she is such a controlling one that couldn't possibly ever be wrong).

also be concerned to shut me up she might get first session.. then not keep the next apptmnt, then the next etc

it's such a crappy situation.

i have often said to her if u just don't have the time, just maybe he'd be happier with someone else - i know a friend who is a maltese nut and often asks to bring him over when we visit... <---- see we even detour to my mum's to take to play dates.

ooffff it sucks.

i shall talk to mum again, i will relay this wounderful response to her... fingers crossed

thanx everyone again xx

[poodlefan]

Perhaps he'd simply be happier not going to public dog parks and playing only with dogs he knows. My dogs are.

Dogs are not naturally sociable. They are territorial pack animals. Wild dog packs kill or drive off "strangers". I know plenty of dogs that simply will not tolerate strange dogs crowding them.

Any trainer who'd give you specific advice about this problem on the internet without having seen and evaluated this dog is not a trainer whose advice I'd take.

Either get your Mum to cough up or don't take him to the dog park (in fact I'd recommend that anyway). The first thing any trainer is going to tell you is don't put your dog in situations which create the unwanted behaviour. The more you create it, the more ingrained a response it is.

[nuttyboutdoggys]

Perhaps he'd simply be happier not going to public dog parks and playing only with dogs he knows. My dogs are.

Dogs are not naturally sociable. They are territorial pack animals. Wild dog packs kill or drive off "strangers". I know plenty of dogs that simply will not tolerate strange dogs crowding them.

Any trainer who'd give you specific advice about this problem on the internet without having seen and evaluated this dog is not a trainer whose advice I'd take.

Either get your Mum to cough up or don't take him to the dog park (in fact I'd recommend that anyway). The first thing any trainer is going to tell you is don't put your dog in situations which create the unwanted behaviour. The more you create it, the more ingrained a response it is.

very valid advice.

thank you poodlefan, it does make sense.

i feel so bad that we have inforced/ made this problem worse. I am so gratefull for the advice. If a trainer online can't help that's very understandable to me now.

i just wanted to see my options while i have some time off work. see if i can help me,help mum, help him.

i will just go to dog parks poochless and just enjoy others doggy company till partner and i can be puppy-parents

we are both going to the agility trials to help out on sat, so we can do many other things to fill that void till our day comes!!

so once again, thank you, thank you all.

[poodlefan]

Nutty:

will just go to dog parks poochless and just enjoy others doggy company till partner and i can be puppy-parents

Or take him to the level where you know he is happy - ie the fenceline. He can look, he can even interact but he can't be jumped on. You can walk around and you can remove him from the fenceline if he shows aggression. You will be in control and not reliant on other dogs owners to do the right thing.

[Alibi]

I agree with poodlefan! Not all dogs are social butterflies and for such a small dog it would be very scary. I have two small dogs who hate going to dog parks because they dont want to play with strange dogs they dont know. They only play between themselves and they do have a few doggy friends but they still dont have any intrest in playing with them either. I know with my pomX that when is gets caught in a over friendly dog suituation she snaps in their face to tell them to back off, and if really pushed i know she would try to make herself more scary. Personally i hate dog parks anyway.

But good luck with the little guy

[Miranda]

I have five dogs here and not one of them would be at ease in a situation such as you describe, they are large dogs, but none of them would happily accept a number of unknown 'happy chappys' attempting to sniff their rears as they walk through the gate into a dog park. I think you will find that a lot of dogs would behave in exactly the same way. Your dog is small and has been previously attacked so it is even worse for him.

I think you'll find that he'll be much happier just being walked on his own or with dogs that he knows

[nuttyboutdoggys]

I have five dogs here and not one of them would be at ease in a situation such as you describe, they are large dogs, but none of them would happily accept a number of unknown 'happy chappys' attempting to sniff their rears as they walk through the gate into a dog park. I think you will find that a lot of dogs would behave in exactly the same way. Your dog is small and has been previously attacked so it is even worse for him.

I think you'll find that he'll be much happier just being walked on his own or with dogs that he knows

it's kinda comforting to know we aren't the only ones in this boat.

thanks for sharing guys.

i guess it would be very scarey if ur 1/4 the size of ur fellows.

however, this would be why i've always had big boofas, the "happy chappys".

see i love the dog park.. it's my way to relax (well in the past growing up).. but i understand now why he's not as excited as me.

[Ons]

my maltese wasn't fond of other dogs, she would often growl and snarl at them. If I ever took her to a dog park if we were staying at mum's she wouldnt' play with the other dogs, she would wander off trying to find ways out of the fully fenced area coz that was more fun for her and a challenge to her. She loved people though.

and in fact if any dogs came wandering over to her on our street walks I would have to be very careful that she didn't threaten them so they wouldnt' threaten back - it's a bit odd telling owners of great danes to take their dogs away as your maltese is about to attack it as I have had to.

having said that if friends dogs came over or my other dog she was fine with, she didn't feel threatened by them, provided they understood she was the boss.

so my suggestion is continue socialisation with friends and their dogs if he enjoys that, walks in the street, car rides with a walk at the other end in a quiet area but visits to the doggy park shouldn't happen, best to do what he enjoys doing not what you think he would enjoy doing :-)

most of all continue to be his friend :-) and when you can afford to see a behavourilist I would suggest that as well. I'm also hoping that the dog is desexed because otherwise that may account for some of the behaviour.