armahani

Try again. It should work.

I don't think our system readily enables judges to refuse a challenge without it coming across as a huge insult. So I can understand them often being reluctant to do so.

I love the European system with gradings for every dog entered (Excellent, Very Good, Good, Sufficient, Disqualified) with definitions for these, and written critiques which help the exhibitor understand why their dog was graded that way on the day. There only those graded Excellent are eligible for challenge. But a dog graded Very Good doesn't mean "terrible" - particularly a young dog - and often not a reason to get upset. It just means exactly that "this is a very good example of its breed, just with something which means it is not quite at that superior level where I would say it is excellent".

Obviously a dog graded Very Good doesn't mean terrible, but it still isn't eligible for the challenge. Yet here, refusing a challenge gets interpreted as a judge saying "this dog is terrible."

It's just a different perspective. We seem to think that any example of its breed as long as it is not "terrible" is challenge worthy. In Europe a dog is not seen as challenge worthy unless they are that extra level above.

I don't know what it is like in other breeds, but I've had a glance at a number of show results for my own breed in its country of origin, and I would say on average only about half of those who enter the ring at most shows get graded excellent. That seems to say that only about 50% of dogs showing are challenge worthy. Here I would speculate that most people assume 100% of the dogs who enter the ring should be challenge worthy.

As I said, a different perspective, but I think the European system (and perhaps showing culture) makes it far easier for dogs to be refused challenges there.

Our Special classes are the main points about our breed and get trainees to judge it so they learn about the breed.

Except for coat, let them enter as many as they want.

Armahni, do you remember which person you spoke to from the rules & reg committee?

BB

Will PM you

I'm the show secretary for the german shorthaired pointer club of victoria, and the last two years, neuters have been allowed to compete in the veterans class (non competing), and also the class for dogs that have a qualifying certificate in say obedience, retrieving, agility etc. I'm sure I rang the VCA about this and they said it was a domestic decision, ie up to the club.

We received contrary advise :) - we contacted the rules and regs committee (Dogs Vic) before our last show and were told that neuters were not eligible to enter most property classes (other than a veterans special class / sweepstake as long as it isn't an ordinary class eligible for challenge).

The reason we were given is that because the rules are "silent" on the issue (ie when the neuter challenge/championship rules were introduced there was no corresponding change also giving neuters other "showing rights" so to speak in any other type of class). So therefore the basic rule/premise that neuters can't compete in conformation stands (except where there are specific written exceptions in the rules).

Personally I think they should be able to compete in property classes - these are largely "fun" classes anyway. Although for many breeds I can see a good reason for excluding them from a "best coat" class.

Do dogs transferred to neuter register have the same registration number as when they were mains registered or does it change?

Also can anyone find the neuter transfer form on the DogsSA website? I must be blind!

Yes. There is actually no such thing as a "neuter register", only the mains register and limited register. Neuters just have their mains registration updated (both on paper and electonically) to "note" them as a neuter - they don't get moved onto a different register. So the number remains the same.

There may not be a form. There isn't in Victoria. We just send in the registration certificate, along with a letter explaining we'd like them updated as a neuter, and the neuter certificate from the vet (along with payment of course :D )

We must be lucky in our breed I think. Every single import, both male and female, with the exception of the first, and one male who died young (so never tried), have had successful litters. Oh, sorry, and the most recent who has only just arrived :laugh: .

The only way of establishing if this has ANYTHING to do with the importation process would be to work out if:

(1) the incidence rate of infertility in male imports is higher than those who remain in their country of origin

(2) the incidence rate of infertility in male imports is higher than those born and remaining in Aus

(3) the incidence rate of dogs who are fertile at x age and then infertile at y age is higher in male imports than those who remain in their country of origin

(4) the incidence rate of dogs who are fertile at x age and then infertile at y age is higher in male imports than those who are born and remain in Aus

Sounds like it could be quite an interesting study :D

But anything else to me is pure speculation. I've heard of plenty of Aussie born males who are infertile, and plenty who sire a litter or two and then end up infertile later in age. A number of cases of this happening to imports doesn't mean anything to me unless there is shown to be a higher likelihood of it happening in an import population than in a stable population.

I'd want the absolute least time possible in quarantine ( don't see why you would want them there any longer)

Armahani is that budget including the purchase price of the dog as well?

I was expecting to need around 10k for everything. *gulp* :laugh:

Yes, that was including purchase price. But keep in mind my first was almost 7 years ago now (when I somehow got a bargain on purchase price :) ) and the last a few years ago - so the lower price probably isn't accurate anymore. Quarantine prices have gone up a fair bit since my last import and the freight prices seem to skyrocket all the time - although on the upside exchange rates are much better now. I would generally think around $10K (for a medium size older pup) is realistic as long as you have a small buffer.

(3) Under AQIS regulations the soonest a puppy can travel is 60 days after the blood draw date for the titre testing

so you are looking at 6 months of age before travel as a minimum age.

Sure ... if you want to leave them in quarantine for three months :laugh: . I can't imagine why anyone would do this!

Esky, standard currently is 150 days after RNATT blood draw for travel to have the minimum 30 days quarantine (although as you would be aware that's under review so may change by the time you come around to it). It's basically 180 days from time of blood draw to time of release from quarantine, so currently if you want less time before they travel, you pay for it with more time in quarantine.

I've always budgeted between $6000 to $10,000 - but it's more toward the higher end these days.

Just a reminder that this is still going ahead next Tuesday night. Please RSVP if you haven't already done so.

Hi all,

For anyone interested, please find below information on a Finnish Lapphund Breed

Lecture being held by the Finnish Lapphund Club of Victoria on the evening

Tuesday, 8 May 2012 at Bulla.

We are very excited to be welcoming Linda Marden, Sugarok Kennels, President of

the Finnish Lapphund Club of America, and 25 year veteran of the breed to

present this lecture.

Further details are pasted at the bottom of this post.

Please feel free to cross-post and further distribute.

For your further information, the first championship show for Finnish Lapphunds

in the Southern Hemisphere is scheduled to be run at KCC Park on Monday 11 June

2012. We are anticipating a large entry, and for anyone having an interest in

the breed, this will be an excellent opportunity to see a large number, from

most States of Australia, in the one place.

FINNISH LAPPHUND BREED LECTURE

LINDA MARDEN

SUGAROK KENNELS, USA

PRESIDENT, FINNISH LAPPHUND CLUB OF AMERICA

Date:

Tuesday 8 May 2012

Time:

7.30pm

Followed by supper

Venue:

Room 1, Bulla Exhibition St

Uniting Lane, Bulla

To attend:

Please RSVP to president@... to assist us with catering

This lecture is being provided by the Finnish Lapphund Club of Victoria free of

charge, however, in recognition that we are a small and relatively new club, a

gold coin donation by attendees who are neither judges nor aspiring judges would

be greatly appreciated. Raffle tickets for our annual raffle are also likely to

be being sold by enthusiastic committee members.

About our speaker:

Linda Marden has had a lifetime involved in the showing and breeding of dogs,

from her first Pomeranian as a 14 year old, to her successful line of Samoyeds.

She was first introduced to Finnish Lapphunds in 1977, although it took 10 long

years of negotiation before she imported her first, Jesse, from Finland to the

USA in 1987.

During the last 24 years, her involvement in the Finnish Lapphund breed has been

extensive, with numerous trips to Europe to learn more about the breed, the

importing of 22 dogs, and the breeding of 232 puppies across 45 litters, which

have assisted to forming a solid foundation in the North America.

She is the President of the Finnish Lapphund Club of America, and has been

instrumental to lead that organisation in their efforts to gain full American

Kennel Club recognition of the breed on 30 June 2011.

Prior to AKC recognition, her Finnish Lapphunds were heavily campaigned in UKC

shows, five of which were Best in Show winners, and also in Canada after breed

recognition was gained there in 2007. Since AKC recognition she has titled 12

American Champions and 4 American Grand Champions, with numerous group

placements, and her highly successful male Bruce (Sugarok Born in the USA) was

the first Westminster BOB winner this year.

Linda has lectured extensively on the breed across the USA and Canada, and we

are enormously grateful that she has agreed to provide this lecture for us

during her trip to Melbourne in 2012.

thanks Underfoot!! I might give that a try! My kids are steadily putting on weight but I wouldn't mind seeing them pack on a bit more. today they only put on around 20-30g each, while other days 50-70g is the norm. Also stressed me out because Mum had jumped the baby gate and was not with her pups when I came home from work .

Mine has free access to and from the puppy room either when I'm home or not. I learnt the hard way with her first litter that she is perfectly able and willing to be an excellent mother, but will not be defined by her mother role alone and is an independent woman with other interests and needs (ie I could never keep her in there) :laugh: . It's taken me a while though to relax and figure out that she knows what she is doing better than me and is perfectly capable of feeding and cleaning them when needed to keep them growing healthy without my silly human interference. I swear she looks at me like "and have YOU ever successfully raised 7 babies before?"

I've been fairly quiet, so apologies to those I've missed a congratulations for ...

Our trio has been doing amazingly well and are now 11 days old. They are without any doubt the strongest, healthiest litter I've ever had, and are coming along in leaps and bounds.

I'm on eye-opening watch now LOL

I've been putting up a few photos of the days here: http://armahanidiamond.blogspot.com.au/

Great news! Glad to hear they are all here safely LP!

Wow! Congratulations! 13 babies sure will keep everyone very very busy!

We took individual photos of our much smaller group :D today: http://armahanidiamond.blogspot.com.au/

Just awful Jr_inoz. I am so very very sorry.

After a few back and forths to the vet (1 1/2 hours away!) we had three babies delivered by c-section today - two boys and one girl. We'd decided a while back if she passed her due date we'd err on the side of caution, and while I thought she was going to have them naturally last night, it just didn't happen.

So somewhat stressful, but not as bad as I feared, with Emmi taking to her pups immediately, and them feeding well - probably better than any of my previous litters. She is being a trifle obsessed with the cleaning through, so I'm having to watch that closely.

Hawkesdale and SS they are gorgeous!

I'm continuing to get antsy now as Kinta continues to grow bigger and bigger and more and more uncomfortable. All she needs to do is make it to next weekend :laugh:

How are things at your end Armahrni?

NOthing happening here. I've come to the distinct conclusion the new thermometer I purchased on Saturday because mine died Friday night is faulty! :laugh:

She is showing absolutely no interest in having babies anytime soon :D

This is pretty much the law already - at least in Victoria - and I assume most other States. Councils have a lot of power under town planning legislation which is quite seperate to domestic animal legislation under any state. If you look up your local town planning scheme, generally, except where land is zoned rural or farming, there is a limit on two dogs for "animal keeping" (which dog breeding is defined under). Any higher requires a town planning permit (which is a significantly different thing than a local laws permit for extra dogs and requires the construction of concrete kennels and runs etc etc, that's if you can get one approved).

Town planning legislation actually encourages puppy farming, because that is generally the only legitimate land use, and it strongly discourages the alternative (ie small scale breeders living in largely residential areas, with family pets and raising puppies in the house).

Well we had our temperature drop this morning, so I think she's go a little early, but she doesn't appear in much of a rush to do so. Just lazing around sleeping :laugh: . I'm a little worried she's going to do what she did last time ... pretend she's not in labour and then calmly wander over to her whelping box when it is time and pop one out :laugh:

I'm always anxious. I promise myself that I need to stop reading the DOL Breeders threads during this time so I don't have yet another horror story on my mind .... but I keep reading :laugh:

Photos of my fat-mamma are here: http://www.armahanidiamond.blogspot.com.au/

Thought I would post some photos with 2 weeks for miss willow to go.....

WOW!

Think I might have been missed for the front post

Good luck leopuppy! Hope it goes well this time.

I've got a litter of Finnish Lapphunds due on the 14 February. This will be my "Diamond" litter, so the date has ended up somewhat apt ;) .

It is my first AI with frozen imported semen litter, so I am nervous, excited, lacking sleep (with all the weird dreams I keep having), incapable of concentrating on anything else, and just generally beside myself!! :laugh:

It's also been over two years since my last litter, so I think that is contributing to the excitement levels :) .

This one has been planned since early 2007 and it has been an interesting 12 months getting to this point ... the story of which is here ..... http://armahanidiamond.blogspot.com/