Runamuk_AST

Hi, can someone please point me in the direction of DOL Hall of Fame if it's still going?

Thank you in advance.

Thanks all.

Still looking.

Hi,

This has probably been posted before, but can anyone point me in the direction of a Patterdale Terrier breeder.

Thanks in advance.

Been thinking about this article all day- I am so disgusted!

I don't know what is worse- the guy himself (honestly what a douchebag!!!!) or news.com.au for having this kind of dribble as 'news' and essentially promoting a shonky breeder that thinks it's ok to put dogs in cages 10m in the air.

I had been sending media releases everyday about a Nationwide Fundraiser for Rescue Animals and they were not interested but this is newsworthy? I have emailed my contact and said that I am cancelling further advertising and that our next catalogue will be done via letterboxes and that I won't be placing any printed ads for the next 3 months. That one article has done damage to the credibility of registered breeders breeding for the betterment of the breed, not their hip pocket and more people breeding for the "bikie" market will pop up now

This might of been a paid advertisement "by himself" ? It's something he would do to increase Puppy sales !

Maybe that is something for the ANKC to look at - making certain health tests a requirement?

I don't think Amstaffs to require health testing.. Not sure about Ataxia though - is that a standard test that is done? (Hopefully an amstaff breeder will come and answer for us).

I am seeing more and more staffy's (note that most of these are not purebred or from registered breeders) with HD these days.

Hi, Stuart from Runamuk Amstaffs here. I've been breeding the Amstaff for 15 years now and have had 5 litters in that time, not 5 litters a week like some !!

In answer to your Q above NONE of those health issues are compulsory testing for the Amstaff,..but all breeders should be at least testing for Ataxia,Hips and elbows. I was always of the belief as far as health testing and the ANKC go, for a health issue to become compulsory tested in any breed it first must be "proven" that it's an hereditary breed health problem,...I think that's where all the Red tape is coming from before testing can made compulsory,..trying to prove that a problem within a breed is hereditary/genetical?

"BUMP"

Hi, i have a question directed at the Brittish breeder's and members of the Forum.

What i would like to know is, do you think the Patterdale Terrier, such as the "Nuttall" Patt's will ever become a recognised breed in the U.K.

I certainly know what the comment's would be from the Working Terrier folk, but just interested to hear from the "show" people.

Thanks.

....what sort of breed of dog do people think this is I maybe wrong but maybe a bulldog...would be interested to hear of peoples opinions

http://www.thecourier.com.au/story/2228610/dog-attack-in-wendouree/?cs=62

An American Bulldogs for sure, but i dont think it would be a Johnson's, looks to be more along the lines of a Scott's.

The Scott's Am-Bulldogs are very athlettic and Perfomance Bred, where as the massive "Johnson" dogs are bred for looks alone.

Hmm cant find delete post !

Runamuk American Staffordshire Terrier's have a litter due on the 13th Jan.

This might open a can of worms but just walked in the door to hear on the TV - should the Gov introduce vicious dog buy back like Howard did with the Gun.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/lets-destroy-these-deadly-animals-once-and-for-all/story-fni0cwl5-1226692411504

EVERY time a mere human is killed or mauled by a pit bull-type dog, all the professional apologists line up to declare: "It's not the breed, it's the deed".

It's the same mantra spewed by the gun lobby after every massacre in the US: "Guns don't kill people. People kill people".

Rubbish. The horrible death this week of two-year old Deeon Higgins in Deniliquin has to mark the end of the line for dangerous dog breeds as household "pets".

Deeon had just stepped outside his grandmother's back door to get an icecream from an outdoor freezer when his 24-year-old cousin's bull mastiff cross attacked him. For more than 15 minutes.

Deeon's frantic grandmother Joyce Higgins, and then his mother, Vicki Higgins, tried in vain to save him. But he died in Deniliquin hospital of "serious head and facial injuries".

You can only shudder.

Pit bull-type dogs are inherently dangerous.

They are responsible for a disproportionately large share of the most serious dog attacks, and yet politicians continue to bow to the dog lobby. Enough. A dangerous dog is a weapon which can be every bit as lethal as a gun.

It's time for a "dog buyback", similar to John Howard's gun buyback. There can be an amnesty of a few weeks before the owner of every pit bull, or similar vicious breed, is required to relinquish their dogs to the local council.

They can then choose a safer breed from the tens of thousands waiting for a new home in pounds and animal shelters. The owner can be recompensed by the taxpayer for the small costs incurred. The dangerous breed is then humanely put to sleep, while a dog on death row is saved.

A life for a life, you might call it.

Those owners who choose not to relinquish their dogs should be subject to draconian laws, including mandatory manslaughter if anyone is killed by their animal.

"Kingston", was a 57kg bull mastiff cross. We don't know what it was crossed with, but a bull mastiff is a big powerful breed considered akin to a pit pull because it is has been bred for the same aggressive traits and muscular, stocky build.

Pit bull is a term generally used for the American pit bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier and Staffordshire bull terrier. Along with similar breeds, they pose a clear and present danger to humans.

For instance, in May, jogger Rob Nelson, 49, was savagely mauled by three American Staffordshire Terriers in Liverpool. When paramedics arrived, his heart was visible through his wounds, his abdomen was "hanging out", his bicep had been eaten and his armpit had been ripped out. He only survived because of the intervention of bystanders.

The dog's owner is due in court later this month, to face a charge of owning an attacking dog, which carries a paltry maximum fine of $5500.

In nearby East Hills last October, a 19-year-old man had his ear bitten off by two American Staffordshire terriers as he walked his dog down the street.

In 2011 District Court Judge Michael Elkaim described two pit bull-type dogs that killed four-year-old Tyra Kuehne as "trained killers". He awarded Tyra's family $120,000 in damages after they sued Warren Shire Council for negligence. S adly, the Court of Appeal overturned the decision.

In 2005, after three such attacks, then premier Bob Carr lashed pitbulls as "killing machines on a leash", but stopped short of banning them.

He declared certain pit bull-type breeds "restricted", which means they cannot be imported, or bred and should be desexed, muzzled in public, and live in a secure enclosure.

The idea was that they would die out and, hey presto, problem solved.

But, almost a decade later, dangerous breeds are still killing and maiming people.

Now Barry O'Farrell isn't even trying to sound tough, saying dog owners need to be more responsible. Sure, but plenty aren't.

Compare O'Farrell's response to that of Victorian Premier Denis Napthine, who is also a vet, and is planning a crackdown on after four-year-old Ayen Chol was mauled to death by a neighbour's pit bull.

"Let's get rid of American pit bulls. They're just bred for attacking and they can do enormous damage," he said.

Unfortunately, in NSW the Australian Veterinary Association view holds sway, that it is the "deed not the breed" and that breed-specific legislation is illogical.

But there's plenty of evidence to dispute that view.

For instance, a paper in the Annals Of Surgery journal in 2011, found: "Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs".

A study in the Plastic And Reconstructive Surgery journal found more than half the serious dog bites treated over five years at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia were pit bulls.

Celebrity vet Dr Robert Zammit, of Vineyard Veterinary Hospital, near Windsor, admitted on ABC radio yesterday that: "Certain breeds are worse than others Certain breeds are very sharp and apt to attack."

He also said that any dog "in a bad situation, can attack," and that no child under 12 should be left alone with a dog.

Sensible advice, but sometimes children wander, and sometimes dogs escape. We need to minimise the risk.

So, if 1000 pit bulls have to die, that's a small price to pay to save one child.

edited to add the whole article.

FOR OVER ONE HUNDRED YEARS AMERICANS KNEW PIT BULLS FOR WHAT THEY DID BEST. BABYSITTING.

http://www.ywgrossman.com/photoblog/?p=676

RICH OR POOR, AMERICAN PARENTS KNEW EXACTLY WHAT PIT BULLS WERE FAMOUS FOR. BEING GREAT WITH KIDS.

http://www.ywgrossman.com/photoblog/?p=1103

THE CRUELEST TRICK EVER PLAYED ON A BREED OF DOG

http://www.ywgrossman.com/photoblog/?p=604http://

YOURE FACING A GERMAN SHEPHERD, A ROTTWEILER, A DOBERMAN PINSCHER, AND A PIT BULL

http://www.ywgrossman.com/photoblog/?p=853

THERE’S ONLY ONE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN THESE 2 DOGS. THEIR OWNERS.

http://www.ywgrossman.com/photoblog/?p=837

This might open a can of worms but just walked in the door to hear on the TV - should the Gov introduce vicious dog buy back like Howard did with the Gun.

http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/opinion/lets-destroy-these-deadly-animals-once-and-for-all/story-fni0cwl5-1226692411504

EVERY time a mere human is killed or mauled by a pit bull-type dog, all the professional apologists line up to declare: "It's not the breed, it's the deed".

It's the same mantra spewed by the gun lobby after every massacre in the US: "Guns don't kill people. People kill people".

Rubbish. The horrible death this week of two-year old Deeon Higgins in Deniliquin has to mark the end of the line for dangerous dog breeds as household "pets".

Deeon had just stepped outside his grandmother's back door to get an icecream from an outdoor freezer when his 24-year-old cousin's bull mastiff cross attacked him. For more than 15 minutes.

Deeon's frantic grandmother Joyce Higgins, and then his mother, Vicki Higgins, tried in vain to save him. But he died in Deniliquin hospital of "serious head and facial injuries".

You can only shudder.

Pit bull-type dogs are inherently dangerous.

They are responsible for a disproportionately large share of the most serious dog attacks, and yet politicians continue to bow to the dog lobby. Enough. A dangerous dog is a weapon which can be every bit as lethal as a gun.

It's time for a "dog buyback", similar to John Howard's gun buyback. There can be an amnesty of a few weeks before the owner of every pit bull, or similar vicious breed, is required to relinquish their dogs to the local council.

They can then choose a safer breed from the tens of thousands waiting for a new home in pounds and animal shelters. The owner can be recompensed by the taxpayer for the small costs incurred. The dangerous breed is then humanely put to sleep, while a dog on death row is saved.

A life for a life, you might call it.

Those owners who choose not to relinquish their dogs should be subject to draconian laws, including mandatory manslaughter if anyone is killed by their animal.

"Kingston", was a 57kg bull mastiff cross. We don't know what it was crossed with, but a bull mastiff is a big powerful breed considered akin to a pit pull because it is has been bred for the same aggressive traits and muscular, stocky build.

Pit bull is a term generally used for the American pit bull terrier, American Staffordshire terrier and Staffordshire bull terrier. Along with similar breeds, they pose a clear and present danger to humans.

For instance, in May, jogger Rob Nelson, 49, was savagely mauled by three American Staffordshire Terriers in Liverpool. When paramedics arrived, his heart was visible through his wounds, his abdomen was "hanging out", his bicep had been eaten and his armpit had been ripped out. He only survived because of the intervention of bystanders.

The dog's owner is due in court later this month, to face a charge of owning an attacking dog, which carries a paltry maximum fine of $5500.

In nearby East Hills last October, a 19-year-old man had his ear bitten off by two American Staffordshire terriers as he walked his dog down the street.

In 2011 District Court Judge Michael Elkaim described two pit bull-type dogs that killed four-year-old Tyra Kuehne as "trained killers". He awarded Tyra's family $120,000 in damages after they sued Warren Shire Council for negligence. S adly, the Court of Appeal overturned the decision.

In 2005, after three such attacks, then premier Bob Carr lashed pitbulls as "killing machines on a leash", but stopped short of banning them.

He declared certain pit bull-type breeds "restricted", which means they cannot be imported, or bred and should be desexed, muzzled in public, and live in a secure enclosure.

The idea was that they would die out and, hey presto, problem solved.

But, almost a decade later, dangerous breeds are still killing and maiming people.

Now Barry O'Farrell isn't even trying to sound tough, saying dog owners need to be more responsible. Sure, but plenty aren't.

Compare O'Farrell's response to that of Victorian Premier Denis Napthine, who is also a vet, and is planning a crackdown on after four-year-old Ayen Chol was mauled to death by a neighbour's pit bull.

"Let's get rid of American pit bulls. They're just bred for attacking and they can do enormous damage," he said.

Unfortunately, in NSW the Australian Veterinary Association view holds sway, that it is the "deed not the breed" and that breed-specific legislation is illogical.

But there's plenty of evidence to dispute that view.

For instance, a paper in the Annals Of Surgery journal in 2011, found: "Attacks by pit bulls are associated with higher morbidity rates, higher hospital charges and a higher risk of death than are attacks by other breeds of dogs".

A study in the Plastic And Reconstructive Surgery journal found more than half the serious dog bites treated over five years at the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia were pit bulls.

Celebrity vet Dr Robert Zammit, of Vineyard Veterinary Hospital, near Windsor, admitted on ABC radio yesterday that: "Certain breeds are worse than others Certain breeds are very sharp and apt to attack."

He also said that any dog "in a bad situation, can attack," and that no child under 12 should be left alone with a dog.

Sensible advice, but sometimes children wander, and sometimes dogs escape. We need to minimise the risk.

So, if 1000 pit bulls have to die, that's a small price to pay to save one child.

edited to add the whole article.

EACH YEAR IN AMERICA:

-410,000 people are killed directly from smoking cigarettes

-35,000 are killed from second hand smoke

-26,000 are killed by illegal guns

-25,000 are killed by drunk drivers

-3,500 are killed in backyard swimming pools

-17 are killed by dogs

-3 of those are killed by Pit Bulls, so Pit Bulls must be banned.

Given the overwhelming abuse Pit Bulls endure, and the undesirable people who too often own them, it’s astonishing that number is so low.

PIT BULLS AREN’T DANGEROUS TO HUMANS.

OWNERS ARE.

If my dog ever did that, regardless of what the child did I would euthanise and this is coming form someone who loves working kelpies with a passion.

Agree'd 100%!

Regardless of what the child did ..if the kid needed hundreds of stitches then..."this was a mauling"... it wasnt just a quick snap to say stop standing on my Paw !!

I bet if you did a survey of the public then most would agree with the sites definition. The only ones who consider a pitbull to be an APBT are dog fanciers who know what the breed standard is. I even met a girl a few months ago who said she had lost her pitty. I asked what colour so I could keep an eye out. She said óh she is coloured like a blue heeler'. I questioned this and she actually had a blue*rotti but apparently that also constitutes a pitty???? I never saw the dog but she said so many people said it was a pitbull then it must have been.

The only ones who consider a pitbull to be an APBT are dog fanciers who know what the breed standard is.

I think there are 2 different breed standards for the "Pit Bull".

The first one is the Standard that the Pit Dogman use, and that would be the Results of the match, a "performance" based standard (ADBA Reg)

...and then you have the "written" standard that the "Conformation" Pit Breeders are using, which i think is probably more U.K.C Reg Pit's these day.

A Pit Bull as i understand it,

...is simply a "Bulldog" that's used in the fighting Pit. Keeping in mind that a "Bulldog" in the USA in NOT necessarily a "Brachycephalic" type of dog that most people from other countries would visulise it to be. A "Bulldog" can be of any mix or any pure breed and is described as a hard, tenasious, fearless no messing type of dog.

"Pit", in the word "Pit Bull" discribes the "FUNCTION" that that dog performes, the same as the function of a Sheppard was to Sheppard and the function of a Pointer was the Point etc etc.

Unfortunately i didnt book mark this reference but i have read that the dogman of old would only call a dog a Pit Bull "AFTER" it had won 3 fight's, it was a kind of title that was put on a dog, unlike the "Ch" title put on the Pit dogs of today when it has won 3. I recon if this is true the dogman of old would be rolling in their grave with all these dogs being called Pit Bulls whitout even putting so much as a Paw in the Pit!!??

Dogs back in the early day's would be roaming the streets everywhere, if you saw a good prospect having a Scrap with another dog then it would be trained for the Pit, if it was any good it would then be used in their breeding program. It didnt matter what the dog "was" or looked like, it was all about performance!.... infact many dogs used where just Mangy bred street dogs, not dogs of a "pure breed"!

This is the information I received from the export company who does the collection and also packaging for export and their method is the two collections 1hr apart because that allows them to be pooled and frozen together to go in the same vial and this produces the 2-4 breeding units on average. I asked about doing another collection at a later date and their response was that this would be fine and could go on the same paperwork but would need to be specified as a different date collected and would go in a separate vial I think? Or something along those lines, it sounded as though it would add significantly to the transport cost but I think I need to have that point clarified so will ask again for that to be explained. They said essentially there was no limit to the pellets one could fit in a vial within reason but that it needs to be a unit frozen at the same time. I suppose this could allow for chilling and recollecting several days apart... Despite the loss of quality you would have that would be outweighed by the extra collected I would think. Definitely would need to clarify with them. Also the dog I am looking at is quite a few hours from the collection clinic I am looking at using so one visit is my best bet...

Re the multiple litters I was trying to ask if you pay for the collection a set cost, pay per litter actually produced or pay for the potential number of litters you could produce (the possibility of multiple litters - sorry that was not well worded) - where I feel if it was a normal stud service it would be multiple serves for the fee of a litter but obviously the value lies in the number of litters produced so it makes sense that in using the semen for ai that the fee would be more if one serve gave you multiple breeding units...

This is the information I received from the export company who does the collection and also packaging for export and their method is the two collections 1hr apart because that allows them to be pooled and frozen together to go in the same vial and this produces the 2-4 breeding units on average. I asked about doing another collection at a later date and their response was that this would be fine and could go on the same paperwork but would need to be specified as a different date collected and would go in a separate vial I think? Or something along those lines

Sorry i'm still a bit lost here, i was always of the understanding that "1" Vial "is" 1 mating, so why would they want to be doing this pooling thing?

it sounded as though it would add significantly to the transport cost but I think I need to have that point clarified so will ask again for that to be explained.

It should cost pretty much the same for you to bring in multiple breeding as it does for the one. I think you can fill up a Cane in the Frozen Semen Shipping Canister and it will cost you the same as if you where only bringing in the single mating.

They said essentially there was no limit to the pellets one could fit in a vial within reason but that it needs to be a unit frozen at the same time

Sorry i'm a bit confused about the above,this is my understanding of it all.

Breeding unit's can be frozen in Pellet's,Vial and in Straw's, i "think" the Straw"s are known as the Clone method and can take multiple Straws to make up 1 breeding unit, and i "think" a Vial is Camelott and the Pellet is I.C.S.B (International Canine Semen Bank) Method, 1 Vial = 1 Breeding and 1 Pellet is 1 Breeding. But i have only used Clone and Camelott. So i just dont understand the Pellet fitting into a Vial bit,...sorry.

Despite the loss of quality you would have that would be outweighed by the extra collected I would think. Definitely would need to clarify with them.

Re the multiple litters I was trying to ask if you pay for the collection a set cost, pay per litter actually produced or pay for the potential number of litters you could produce (the possibility of multiple litters - sorry that was not well worded) - where I feel if it was a normal stud service it would be multiple serves for the fee of a litter but obviously the value lies in the number of litters produced so it makes sense that in using the semen for ai that the fee would be more if one serve gave you multiple breeding units...

I would think all of the above is something that is agree'd upon between both parties.

Oh Dear

The professionals recommended on here are usually those recommended by well experienced dog owners and trainers .

the professionals named on here, and the professionals who have contributed to this thread , as well as all posters have absolutely no desire to 'break/crush' any dog., esp a 5 mth old puppy !

Please do not give an unsure puppy owner such a dire warning.....without some positives .

Unsure puppy owners need to be recommended to experienced and good trainers , for sure - and that is what is being done here.

Chriss- you have been given someone to email, and also others to contact - I'm sure you will appreciate what they have to offer :)

Oh Dear

The professionals recommended on here are usually those recommended by well experienced dog owners and trainers .

the professionals named on here, and the professionals who have contributed to this thread , as well as all posters have absolutely no desire to 'break/crush' any dog., esp a 5 mth old puppy !

Where have i said anything bad about the professionals recomended on DOL,..PLEASE point it out ????? all i have said is make sure the trainer KNOWS the Amstaff breed. PLEASE POINT it out where i have specificaly said the Trainers on DOL !

Please do not give an unsure puppy owner such a dire warning.....without some positives

The possitives will be finding a trainer who know the breed! i have had, and have seen the breed crushed by so-called trainers before ..so i will give the same advice evertime someone is wanting advice.

ALWAYS !!! If in doubt seek a reputable trainer that "know's" the Amstaff. There are many Trainers around but not many have had experience with breeds such as the APBT/AST. !!

Chriss i cannot emphasise the above enough !!!

I have seen many SO-CALLED Trainer break Amstaffs and Pit's in minutes, and it's mainly due to the breeds reputation that people think these breeds need hard/harsh training methods and they will completely chrush your dog.

The biggest threat to the Amstaff breed It's people commenting in a negative way on a breed they know "nothing" about, it's no wonder it's in trouble with BSL!

You CAN NOT assume that because a dog is a particular breed, it will have a particular temperament, triggers or traits

lol...Haredown you cant be serious !! all dogs where bred/designed for a purpose, and that meant possesing a "specific" temperment, trigger or trait. That's EXACTLY how we get a "BREED"

Far out! Makes the amounts pulled here at the moment seem meager

The problem is we cant compare one clubs cart to another clubs cart, and one clubs surface to another clubs surface. Even though they might be both artificial surfaces they cannot ever be the same. Back some years ago at the SASDC we would only be pulling a top weight of 3-4 Hundred Kilo "max" with their old cart on the old surface, the very next weekend down at SACA using the SHAM equiptment we would be pulling 12-13hundred Kilo. Just goes to show we cant compare one clubs results to another.

For curiosity’s sake...

* When he growls and barks at you, is it a monotonous bark with each bark the same pitch and the same space between barks, or does it vary? Does the bark start soft and increase in volume, or does it start loud and stay loud? Does he stand still and straight or does he shift his weight to his hindquarters? Is he wagging his tail? Is the growl coming from deep in his chest or more from his mouth?

* Do these episodes occur at a particular time of day? Or when you are preoccupied with house chores?

* When you moved him away from you, did you push or drag him or do something else?

* It is good that he is still obedient when he’s doing this. Will he lie down when asked?

* Are you doing Nothing In Life Is Free with him or something like it? If not, I think you should start. There is an article about it here: http://www.dogstardaily.com/blogs/nothing-life-free He should know that the key to getting what he wants is to sit or lie down quietly and patiently wait. If you haven't been using NILIF so far, don't start all at once now. Start with basic things when he is calm and only ask for a very quick sit/down. Gradually expand to other life rewards. It's like a sneaky way of teaching him to be calm and polite and ask nicely when he wants something instead of trying to take it. I would move it into play pretty quickly, especially if he's already so obedient when aroused.

* How much chewing/licking does he get to do? Do you give him Kongs or bones to chew on? I would be looking at feeding him all his food he doesn't get in training in Kong form. It will give him something constructive to do with his chompers.

his bark is usally at the same pitch but does very from time to time and does get pritty loud, ears tilted back, chest on the ground with his butt up in the air tail wagging sometime and at other times he stands on all fours with his back straight ears tilted back and tail pointing straight no wagging like he's ready to go, he did the same thing tonight but only wanted to play as what I wrote just before.

He seems to do it some of the time when I'm in the kitchen playing around with him or even sometimes just when I look at him, and the back yard just a few times.

I wouldn't know how to explain his growl but it does'nt intimindate me at all only the first time it happened, I hope thats enough to go off I can see what you have written once I've clicked reply.

chest on the ground with his butt up in the air

This part would indicate to me you have a normal cocky Amstaff pup and he "is" respecting you . He's just wanting to bring the game to you. When he does this any you play make sure that it's you that's ending the game. You "MUST" get to know his "off" button !!!!!

ALWAYS !!! If in doubt seek a reputable trainer that "know's" the Amstaff. There are many Trainers around but not many have had experience with breeds such as the APBT/AST.

The Amstaff is a very, very vocal breed and many people have mistaken this for aggression. I'm sure during my dogs play time my neighbours think i'm holding Pit Fight's !

We didn't have a back fence untill last week, had in in a room with nothing in it at the time but he still managed to detroy the walls, doors, and the floor board skirts in a matter of a couple of hours when we were gone. He was provided with toys bedding etc. I find the chain to be a better option, its around a 20ft chain but I tie it down shorter so he cant reach the stuff we dont want damaged but he still has alot of length left to do his own thing while we're not home, have'nt had any problem since I used this option.

Chriss this is a Amstaff you purchased mate, what where you thinking buying one without fences? This breed NEEDS constant mental stimulation and exercise. If you think you've got problems now then he's only going to get worse being a chain dog. This is not a set and forget breed, it's very demanding and need's to be a part of the family unit. Being locked in a bedroom all day with only bedding and toy's is only asking for trouble "BIG TIME".

As the title says...

What stud fee would one expect to pay when importing seamen? My understanding is often two collections are pooled and frozen at the same time (collected 1hr apart) and this gives usually 2-4 breeding units... But obv that is how many shots you have and not how many litters you have. Do you pay a higher fee for possible multi litters?

Thanks

Bridget

What stud fee would one expect to pay when importing seamen?

That's entirely up to you ! How much do you think the dog is worth to your breeding program?

I have Imp semen that has cost me 1K per breeding and i have also Imp semen that has cost me 2.5K per breeding.

Hmmmmm... 2 collections only 1 hour appart ? I have collected and froze semen from the same dog 1 week apart .

With the semen i have Imp i paid for the collecting, testing etc and purchased all the breedings bar 1 .

I have alway believed that 1 breeding unit is 1 stud fee. If a breeder already has the dog on ice and has paid for the collection and testing then that cost should be divided into the amount of breeding from that collection.

Do you pay a higher fee for possible multi litters?

Sorry but i dont understand what your trying to say ?

My understanding is often two collections are pooled and frozen at the same time (collected 1hr apart) and this gives usually 2-4 breeding units

I may be wrong so someone please correct me if i am,...but i dont think this is possible(1 hour appart) as there would be 2 different sperm counts and a different morphology count??

Aggression is a drive either defensive or active. We can all agree that a working Border Collie will have prey drive, yet we ignore that another breed has driven aggression. You can't make prey drive out of a couch potato likewise you can't make aggression drive out of a dog or breed that doesn't have any in their genetic structure. Aggression is no more man made than prey drive, scent drive or any other drive that dog or breed may be genetically wired to include in it's make up.

Aggression is used in dogs for working roles on a daily basis worldwide and the people who use such a dog don't use just any old dog or breed and there is a reason for that which is simply, they are not all made equal. The faster the anti BSL crusaders acknowledge the fact

instead of arguing that aggression stems from environment and any other factor that can take the heat off breed and genetics which is all BS, the faster they may be able to overturn BSL perhaps?.

Where do I start?

Aggression is NOT a drive. It is the EXPRESSION of a drive .. dominance, prey, food, pack, sexual etc etc

If you think you can't make prey drive out of a couch potato, you clearly have had very little to do with sighthounds :laugh: Similarly, if you think you can't "make" a dog aggressive, check out the seedier side of the security dog training industry.

I have never said that breed doesn't matter - but it's not everything either. There are two reasons for that:

1. The levels of drive within a breed will vary. Not all Border Collies will herd. Not all sighthounds will course. And, most importantly for this thread, not all bull breeds are dog or human aggressive. Do you watch the rescue shows on Animal Planet? Quite a few times they've used an APBT as the "Friendly test dog" for character assessments at the ASPCA.

2. How quickly a dog will trigger into a particular drive can be modified - by socialisation, by training (no police dog does its work simply due to "drive"). That expression can also be controlled.

We have created breeds with various levels of particular drive but anyone with good breed knowledge will tell you that doesn't make them a universal attribute. Furthermore, any trainer will tell you we can modify our dogs behaviour.

THIS is what is wrong with BSL. It assumes that all behaviour can be simply attributed to breed and that there is no way some dogs of a particular breed can be safe (or dangerous for that matter). And there is no research in the world that supports that assumption. Not anywhere.

We know with responsible ownership that any breed is a safe breed, no BSL required on that front at all. However, irresponsible ownership of breeds where high level aggression and extreme fighting ability is found in lines of those breeds is what BSL attempts to eradicate. The question that needs to be answered is this: Do you want irresponsible people breeding concoctions of powerful breeds to result in the potential ownership of dogs dangerous in the community, because that's simply what no BSL represents?

It's not all about the seizure of a Staffy X who the ranger thinks is a Pitbull, it's about Bozo the drug dealer importing a Fila to cross it with an over sharp fear biting Rotty to protect his dope patch and selling the surplus pups off to his dopey mates who are less responsible than he is. You can't breed power, aggression and fight out of dogs that don't have the genetics to support that, it's total naïve BS if anyone thinks they can.........certain breeds are used for a reason what ever the role required of the dog is intended to be.

90% of DA is caused through insecurity.

"Any" breed or "ANY" dog can be described as a "Pit Bull" if that is the "FUNCTION" it is performing.

Is anyone else smiling about how much further down the list pit bulls are than even kelpies. :p

Not really. Most people are hopeless with identifying breeds and there's plenty of evidence to show such statistics are inherently flawed.

Agree 100% Haredown.

I'm not breed bashing here,just telling it as it is. They're also not taking into consideration that as the Pit Bull is a Prescribed breed in most states of Australia, most of those Pit's are REGISTERED with the Council's/Shire's as Amstaff's, so as soon as there's an attack,it's down on record as another Amstaff attack. This is really hurting our breed!!