bullmighty
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Posts posted by bullmighty
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The dog in question, will never be put up for sale, one of the organistaions staff wants her, which was how the breeder found out the girl wound up there in the first place. The staff member thought this girl looked of this breeders "type" and so emailed the breeder letting them know that this dog had been surrendered to the organisation.
They did not find a chip initially or they would have known who the breeder was straight away, as she is second contact on the chip, it wasn't until the breeder was told what area the person who surrendered the dog lived in, that she gave them a chip number of 1 possible dog. Sure enough after scanning the dog the chip numbers matched.
She was informed that the staff member would be taking the girl home once she was desexed. The dog in question had already had a tubal ligation before she left the breeder and had suffered cardiac and respitory distress once the gaseous anaesthetic was turned off, she was however successfully stabilised with intravenous fluids and Dopram. But will remain as "high risk" when it comes to any future anaesthetics.
The organisation did not take the breeder seriously about the risk involved to the dog if she was put under, and do not accept Tubal Ligation as truly sterile. The breeder had to get her vets practice manager to ring and fax through the dogs medical history and a copy of the letter re her anaesthetic issues that was provided to the original owner so they would not put her life at risk with an unnecessary operation.
The person who surrendered the dog is not the person on the chip, they do not even share the same surname. So the breeder got in contact with her states (SA) canine council and had there lawyer fax through to the organisation copies of the dogs micro chip details and her contract with the original owner. She was quite happy to pay the organisation the standard fee to get the dog back, but has now had contact from the organisations lawyer informing her not to contact anybody from the said organisation at all, and any contact or questions about the dog need to go through the law firm hired by the organisation.
She has been told by the lawyer she will not be getting the dog back, it is now the property of the organisation (and soon to be property, if not already of one of their staff members).
I cannot believe that an organisation that relies on donations from the public to survive, can throw away money that is supposed to be used to save dogs lives, so a breeder cant take back responsibility of a dog she bred? I hate to think how much time and money has been wasted in this case, not to metion other "less desirable" dogs that may have been passed over whilst this dog that has had a home to go to all along takes up kennel space, food and other resources.
As a pet owner (I am not a breeder) it scares the crap out of me that one of my dogs could be surrendered by someone who's name does not appear on the microchip. Good breeders really have their work cut out what a nightmare!
As any owner you should not have to be concerned that someone can claim to be the owner and surrender it. There are laws which protect us from this but we dont know what they did to have ownership proved or authority to surrender the dog when they accepted the animal . If in fact they just said O>K> we have no evidence that you are the owner and have the right to surrender but we will take it anyway they are in breach of the law and may have recieved stolen goods and therefore its a police issue.
The question that hasnt seemed to be asked is where is the owner who made the agreement and who supposedly still owns the dog and what they have to say? Was the dog stolen from them or did they give written approval for them to have authority to surrender it etc. There are also issues coming up here re privacy surrounding the chip etc which may need to be addressed.
.The owner is not talking , there was no written permission , the organisation after realizing no one checked this have now said through there solicitor..... paraphrasing he has been advised by his client( the organisation) that due to the relationship status he is her authorized agent.This conclusion was reached 10 days after this dog was surrendered and after a worker had been able to put her name on this dog .
Geez that's pretty shocking - what state are we in? Any rescue group which has such shoddy surrender procedures needs to be bought into line pretty quickly .
Pacers had a case not long ago where the partner of a person had the dog and needed to surrender it . The registered owner wasnt able to be contacted and there were other issues which meant the owner couldnt be involved. Basically the dog had been abandoned by the owner and left with the ex partner and the ex couldnt afford to keep it. After much agony Bankstown council accepted the dog as abandoned and a stat dec was still required from the partner to state the dog had been left with him and he couldnt look after it. The chip was registered to that adress but owner wasnt able to be located so the dog became the property of the council so only then could someone else take it. My point is this was a very difficult thing to do and all the dots had to be covered first.
This isnt any rescue group this is one of the biggest in Sa , big money bigger lawyers .
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You can't put a contract on a dog once it is sold. It doesn't matter what law you argue it under and I am not able to name the specific laws and rights that it comes under but it is very similar, for example, to buying a lounge. The person who sells you the lounge can not write a contract that forces you to do anything with it. Once it is sold it is yours lock stock and barrel. Dogs come under a consumer law which is why you can not stop a pet shop from selling a dog.
The contract has a condition of sale which is legally binding how ever the dog is considered "goods" so you can affix a monetary value only.
But the condition of sale isnt legal. It takes away the right of the owner to have free enjoyment of and make decisions about their own property.
If I didnt want to give the breeder back my dog no amount of contract I may have signed years ago would make me do it. Thank God.
I am not a solicitor my sister is and her area is contract law I have also had another solicitor confirm that the purchaser is in breach of the contract.
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The dog in question, will never be put up for sale, one of the organistaions staff wants her, which was how the breeder found out the girl wound up there in the first place. The staff member thought this girl looked of this breeders "type" and so emailed the breeder letting them know that this dog had been surrendered to the organisation.
They did not find a chip initially or they would have known who the breeder was straight away, as she is second contact on the chip, it wasn't until the breeder was told what area the person who surrendered the dog lived in, that she gave them a chip number of 1 possible dog. Sure enough after scanning the dog the chip numbers matched.
She was informed that the staff member would be taking the girl home once she was desexed. The dog in question had already had a tubal ligation before she left the breeder and had suffered cardiac and respitory distress once the gaseous anaesthetic was turned off, she was however successfully stabilised with intravenous fluids and Dopram. But will remain as "high risk" when it comes to any future anaesthetics.
The organisation did not take the breeder seriously about the risk involved to the dog if she was put under, and do not accept Tubal Ligation as truly sterile. The breeder had to get her vets practice manager to ring and fax through the dogs medical history and a copy of the letter re her anaesthetic issues that was provided to the original owner so they would not put her life at risk with an unnecessary operation.
The person who surrendered the dog is not the person on the chip, they do not even share the same surname. So the breeder got in contact with her states (SA) canine council and had there lawyer fax through to the organisation copies of the dogs micro chip details and her contract with the original owner. She was quite happy to pay the organisation the standard fee to get the dog back, but has now had contact from the organisations lawyer informing her not to contact anybody from the said organisation at all, and any contact or questions about the dog need to go through the law firm hired by the organisation.
She has been told by the lawyer she will not be getting the dog back, it is now the property of the organisation (and soon to be property, if not already of one of their staff members).
I cannot believe that an organisation that relies on donations from the public to survive, can throw away money that is supposed to be used to save dogs lives, so a breeder cant take back responsibility of a dog she bred? I hate to think how much time and money has been wasted in this case, not to metion other "less desirable" dogs that may have been passed over whilst this dog that has had a home to go to all along takes up kennel space, food and other resources.
As a pet owner (I am not a breeder) it scares the crap out of me that one of my dogs could be surrendered by someone who's name does not appear on the microchip. Good breeders really have their work cut out what a nightmare!
As any owner you should not have to be concerned that someone can claim to be the owner and surrender it. There are laws which protect us from this but we dont know what they did to have ownership proved or authority to surrender the dog when they accepted the animal . If in fact they just said O>K> we have no evidence that you are the owner and have the right to surrender but we will take it anyway they are in breach of the law and may have recieved stolen goods and therefore its a police issue.
The question that hasnt seemed to be asked is where is the owner who made the agreement and who supposedly still owns the dog and what they have to say? Was the dog stolen from them or did they give written approval for them to have authority to surrender it etc. There are also issues coming up here re privacy surrounding the chip etc which may need to be addressed.
.The owner is not talking , there was no written permission , the organisation after realizing no one checked this have now said through there solicitor..... paraphrasing he has been advised by his client( the organisation) that due to the relationship status he is her authorized agent.This conclusion was reached 10 days after this dog was surrendered and after a worker had been able to put her name on this dog .
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You can't put a contract on a dog once it is sold. It doesn't matter what law you argue it under and I am not able to name the specific laws and rights that it comes under but it is very similar, for example, to buying a lounge. The person who sells you the lounge can not write a contract that forces you to do anything with it. Once it is sold it is yours lock stock and barrel. Dogs come under a consumer law which is why you can not stop a pet shop from selling a dog.
The contract has a condition of sale which is legally binding how ever the dog is considered "goods" so you can affix a monetary value only.
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My problem with this .. the woman who bought the dog signed the contract and is the reg owner of papers and chip ....is NOT the person who surrendered the dog , the person who surrendered the dog has never been the owner on contract ,registration papers or microchip .Yet he was able to surrender the dog declare it was neither chipped or desexed sign his name and this gave the organisation "effective ownership " no one scanned this dog his word was taken re the ownership chipping and desexing he also did not advise anyone of her risk under anesthetic .
I was contacted by a worker who saw the dog and literally put her name on her she asked if I knew who would have a dog in the area she was surrendered from it was at this time I advised the worker that if it was one of ours she would be chipped desexed and on contract this was a Friday night .
The Monday morning following the worker went in early scanned the dog herself found the chip it , at was after this that all documentation was sent through including a follow up call from the Practice Manager from the vets who sterilized her to warn of the High Anesthetic risk she posed especially as she was already sterilized.
The solicitor has no problem with my contract holding up against the woman who bought the dog , but it will not compel the return of the dog only a financial comp.
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I feel very strongly about this topic.
As a Breeder I would always take my own back, desexed or not, and I would expect to be given that opportunity.
What irks me is that whilst rescues and shelters are crying out for assistance, and whining about too many animals and not enough resources to take them, they will not knock back the purebred ones and many do not allow the Breeder to take them back. Makes no sense to me, why not ease your burden by giving the Breeder the responsibility for their own when they are willing.
As far as microchipping goes the whole system is BS, when push comes to shove the system fails, it fails the dogs, it fails their owners and it fails their breeders. It lulls people into a false sense of security and often people learn this the hard way.
We also have too many data bases and too many instances of human error with data input.
This.. I feel the same way.
Don't cry poor and whinge for help, when you don't /won't give/sell dogs back to the breeders who would take them.
I feel very strongly about this topic too and was horrified when I found out how many registered breeders didn't care when their dog was surrendered to the group or was at risk of it being surrendered - I was also saddened by how many were happy for the rescue group to rehome the dog without offering assistance. Its fair enough that not every breeder of every breed can just take an unknown adult dog into their pack but those breeders were the ones who offered help in referring homes or a donation for the dog in question.
Don't get me wrong - I've come across some great breeders but the greater majority of registered breeders contacted didn't want to know or help. It was so rare to see one who DID care that I actually nominated them for an MDBA award because of the effort that they went to to get the dog of their breeding back, safe, with them.
I'm personally aware of THREE local registered breeders who were contacted by Albury Pound about dogs of their breeding that had been impounded. One didn't return two phone calls about an entire dog surrendered with main register papers (but then accused the pound of doing the wrong thing when the dog was rehomed with those papers) and the other two said that they wouldn't be coming to get their dogs. All three show their dogs.
I must say that I found the opposite with Pug breeders. Many wanted to assist in some way, although some didn't and some appeared to react as though the idea of assisting a dog in need that they had bred as being a very foreign concept.
Running a breed specific rescue, I spoke to a lot of breeders whose dogs had eneded up in my care for one reason or another, so I feel I got a reasonable idea od how Pug breeders felt and or reacted to their dogs ending up in rescue.
Ours was across quite a variety of breeds but never Pugs so that is quite possibly true. Also nearly all of the registered dogs we saw were larger breed dogs.
The dog in question this time is a large breed , also we run the Bullmastiff club rescue here in SA neither the RSPCA or AWL will recognise this breed rescue .
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New Stockist in South Australia
Black Hawk Products should be available from the 25th march 2011
Boregines dog salon .
30A Tapleys Hill road Royal Park
84472535
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Breeders Beware (permission To Cross Post)
in General Dog Discussion
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organisation .