Elenbah

NSW is much scarier for purebred breeders because there is a big push for no exemptions other than a reduction in fees.

The only place that I saw a reduction in fees in the NSW Taskforce proposal feedback, was in the Annual Registrations where you could "tick" for a reduced fee for dogs/cats purchased from a Pound or Animal Shelter... Not even pensioners were mentioned, where as now they have reduced life time registration for their desexed pets.

About a thousand responses - only just over 400 are members of a registered body. We are once again out numbered by the welfare sector.

We were all told to do our feedback in as "An Interested Individual" Steve because last year (July) nearly 1000 submissions with member of a registered body were deemed as one submission and counted as such....

If there must be a single registry I'm all in favor of DogsNSW offer to provide that role,but wouldn't there be a conflict of interest with rulings that discriminate against non-pedigree dogs? ie; Entire cross breds not permitted to compete?

That would be a major stumbling block to an acceptance of the offer.

I thought the role was about being an agent - so when a person changes details on a pedigree its changed on the data base etc.

There is no way there would be a possibility of two chip registries.

It may not be a good idea to have 2 chip registries bUT the case is that nation wide we have 8 or 9 registaries so far.

It would seem to me that if the NSW CAR registriy was made available to DogsNSW then it could well work a treat??

I meant one compulsory registry for the state. Im happy for Dogs NSW to have access to the CAR - but anyone or any group can do that with a password and if Dogs NSW get that ability so will many other orgs. Im not sure what it is thats being discussed that Dogs NSW would do. Feel like Im missing something because they dont need any special resources for this.

They are talking about one registry. The RSPCA want to take control of that. Dogs NSW is offering to do this as their computer systems and programs have the capacity to do this.... Pedigree dog puppies and all other pups born to Domestic Breeders (whoever they may be, one off litters from the

family pet of pups from large scale puppy breeders) will have a breeders registration number (just like pedigree dogs do now) the only difference will be that puppies born to non Dogs NSW members may have a DAR in front of their number...

So are you suggesting that they will allow Dogs NSW to take this over from what the council does now? Nup not a chance in my opinion. i was told that Dogs NSW and similar orgs would be able to change and ad data which they cant do now in order to encourage peopel to change info which they dont do now because its too hard to do.

Whats more if its a case of them doing what councils do how would this help registered purebred breeders?

No Steve, Councils will still do the microchip registrations, but just as every dog registered with Dogs NSW has a Registration number this DAR number will be applied to every other pup, once every dog breeder in NSW has a breeders licence.

Might be wrong but My impression of that proposal is for all dogs to come under a single governing body to represent members and guide future policy with the aid of the data base.

Seeing what happens in other industries including live stock I believe such a body is inevitable in the long run and likely to be taken up world wide.

That would explain why dogsNSW proposal is not acceptable.

A shame,because I think such a registry MUST be community owned and run,like DogsNSW who are set up,running and ready to go.Or ANKC if it were taken up world wide.

Changing a couple of discriminatory KC rulings would put them in a position to fill that role with minimum impact on pedigree dogs,more likely a huge benefit and upsurge of interest IN pedigree dogs and the industry as a whole,with a common community of interest and information sharing,Enabling broad,balanced self regulation of the whole industry.

Any other way, I can only see it getting more difficult for pedigree breeders,becoming increasingly marginalized as long as they insist pedigree, pure breeds are the only justifiable option.

Sorry,but thats how I see it.

After discussion the MDBA have had behind the scenes I don't believe that is the case.

However, there is a push in that task force document to have a single body which will determine what will go on with all dogs - there isnt anything new in that some have been pushing for it for quite a while - the concept that Dogs NSW would be it is never ever going to fly and it would be a body made of of differing group representatives.

DogsNSW was on the Taskforce. It has the recognition, the systems, the ethics and the coverage to pick up this task, with a few tweaks and an accountability agreement with the government. It behoves us all to support this option.

I am lead to believe that Dogs NSW Data base system has the capacity to take this on... They would be separated by their registration number with all other dogs having a DAB (Domestic Animal Breeds) (I think it was) in front of it's registration number.

Ringo said there is so if there is something buried away then we need to have it and a link.

Come on people if anyone has a link to what we are after PLEASE post it.

Yes, we all know it takes time to get through a 115 pages but if you have spotted it PLEASE let us all know.

I am betting that it is worded in such a way we are just not recognising it.

Yes, oakway, I think it's a case of having to read between the lines... This is how I see it....

NSW Companion Animals Taskforce Report Oct 2012.... Recommendation 2.. "The Animal Welfare Code Of Practice- Breeding Dogs & Cats" should be revised to ensure that the existing Guidelines it contains, become Enforceable Standards. Then if we go and open the link to "Animal Welfare Code Of Practice Breeding Dogs & Cats" ... 2. INTRODUCTION 2.1. This Code sets the standards for the breeding of Dogs & Cats. 2.2. It applies to the welfare of dogs & cats which are involved in the business of raising puppies... Then scroll down to DEFINITIONS. "Breeding". Means the business of breeding litters for sale... "Dog Housing" Where it says forming part of a house/flat/apartment etc.. These were found under Guidelines and we would be classified under "Facility"... For the purpose of Breeding dogs & Cats....... For which you must then link to your LOCAL COUNCIL who for the purpose of this discussion would classify us as a "Breeding Business".... I don't know if this makes it any clearer?....

Under this proposed Legislation, in order to obtain a breeders license, one would first have to apply to their local Council and under a great many local councils the minimum requirements must be a sustainable establishment and planing suitable for a boarding establishment/breeding facility.

All the points mentioned above are what councils tell you in relation to breeding is how they consider the situation.

They are relying upon the NSW Local Environment Plan that each council must develop and they are all working from the same template for this plan with the same definitions for land zoning, activities etc. The idea is to have the whole state covered by the same zoning laws eventually. Have a look at your own local council website and and you will be able to see past LEPs and the current one either now in force or being developed (some councils are slower than others). For and individual council to change their LEP they must go to the department of planning & dept of local government & convince them they are special and need to have something specific for their area.

You can also view the template and the definitions it has on the department of local government website.

All planning decisions when contested by either party end up in the NSW Land & Environment Court (NSWLEC) and they give legal and binding decisions on how each party has interpreted the LEP and it's definitions.

To view these cases google '"New South Wales Case Law" which will bring up a website with various courts listed. Choose the Land & Environment Court option then search for dog breeding. It will list a number of cases, some relevant others not so. You need to read the decisions carefully to follow them, especially why the parties are in court. (ie the initial situation) The one I have spoken about is from 2011, decision handed down in 2012 from the north coast of NSW. But there are a number of other decisions which make interesting reading, especially the one about the two horses a woman had on a city block.

They also apply the same rules to rescue organisations as they '... board, train for a commercial purpose'- dogs/cats are sold for money.

BTW if anyone knows grey hound breeders/racers then tell them this report will affect them. At the moment they think they are solely governed by the Greyhound Racing Act and GRNSW own policies. - They actually comply with POCTA through these regulations and if these recommendations are introduced as law then they will be covered by them as 'breeders' and will need to be licenced. Guess that will be the end of greyhound racing in NSW.

Just think of all the ramifications of these recommendations :

Pet Food industry goes down hill as number of dogs, cats owned by people declines. Currently worth six billion Australia wide & growing weekly.

Number of vets declines, and then getting an appointment for rover will be like going to the doctor now - your appointment will be in three weeks time at 2pm !! Too bad for the dog/cat.

Insurance companies will suffer as pet insurance will decline with decline in number of pets

Council revenues decline as number of pets declines.

Number of associated industries for pets declines, no more on line stores, finding a pet barn will become harder as they hit the wall, no more mobile dog washes, no more personalised trainers for dogs.

And one for the Hunter Shooters, Fishers Party - no more hunting with dogs as it will be illegal to breed them unless you are a registered breeder hence no more 'pig dogs' hence no more hunting with them.

How about all the farmers & graziers who breed excellent working dogs, kelpies, cattle dogs, border collies - no licence to breed no breeding. So who works the sheep, cattle with/for the farmer - ten extra people ??? to do the same job.

The ADF takes all breeds of dogs some pedigree, others not for their work - guess that will decline as well, although as a Commonwealth organisation they are automatically exempt for most things, regardless of that other people think.

Peoples health declines as they no longer own cats/dogs and take part in activities with them - interesting recommendations abt tenannts and nursing homes (?) though

It took me two hours to come up with these side effects of the recommendations - some will have an affect sooner than later but eventually if this comes to be then they will all happen.

On the other hand maybe I'm just a born pessimist and the light of reason will be seen.

OMG.! Ringo, it's looking bleaker and bleaker.!... The Government would be cutting their own throat if they were to pass this..... Are they so blind???????... Would it be OK if I cross-post this?

I read through the Animal Welfare Code of Practices for breeding dogs and cats and nowhere could I find anything which said you have to have kennel blocks... can you tell me where it is please? I must be missing it in the small print!

I did however ring my council and the planning officer was quite adamant that whether I have one breeding dog or one hundred, and whether I make any money from breeding or not, I am classified as a commercial breeder and thus must comply with the same regulations as boarding kennels. In the suburban and semi-rural part of my Shire this was strictly not zoned for and the only place I could apply would be if I lived in the rural part of the Shire (which I couldn't do and keep my city job, unless I had my own helicopter).

It seems like what we need to do is to get hobby breeding with small numbers of dogs/litters reclassified as non-commercial, we would then not fall under these council restrictions. Ringo, did you say there was a precendent for this in 2012?

I should say I don't mind being inspected, they can do it every year if they like, I can even save $300 if I know in advance the bill is coming, but they will be inspecting a suburban house not a kennel block!

Just out of curiosity,... When I first moved into where i am now back in 1998 I had 4 shelties. Council Regulations were for 2x dogs but I contacted them and the Ranger came out and inspected my house(which would be considered urban)& yard (that has no kennels) and I got permission to keep up to 4 dogs and a litter of pups up till 6 months... Could that permission now be revoked? or am I a lucky beggar I wonder.....

Loved your posts Steve, even if after 17 years it has been bought to my attention that I have been in breech of Regulations. I never have and never will consider my kids as livestock. I don't consider myself even a commercial breeder either, for that you would have to be breeding for the sole purpose of making money.!

In my breed, Papillons that would be a hard ask... As in a lot of breeds, the demand is there for puppies but not the supply unless you are willing to wait for sometimes up to two years for a pup. Unfortunately, many are not willing to wait, and that's where the puppy farmers come in.... I wish there were an answer.

I think the Government is so naive to believe that what they are proposing in this Legislation is going to "fix" the problem of huge numbers of dogs finding their way into to pounds and shelters each year (but we all know who has been whispering into their ears for so long, don't we)and if the pounds and shelters statistics of dogs were actually accurate instead of if this dog looks like a GSD therefore it must be a pure bred, then you would find very few pure breeds amongst their statistics... With nearly breed club having their own rescue, those pure bred dogs don't generally stay their long... We are not the problem, please don't make us the scapegoat...I believe, that if they do introduce this legislation as it is, with yearly registrations at an inflated price, pounds and shelters will not know what's hit them... it will be virtually raining cats and dogs.!

And the only winners?...... You guessed it.!!!!!!

Up until now Dogs NSW breeders have been considered as hobbyists. Although we abide by the AWL Code of Practice Breeding Dogs and Cats certain parts have been Guidelines and not enforceable, that has allowed us to still have our dogs as pets first and live in houses as pets... They want to change that. Which in essence changes our pets to livestock. (Dept. of Primary Industries)

If you go to page 6 of the 155page recommendations and you have to read it slowly to digest it, it says every breeder must acquire a Breeders Licence, although if you only want one litter or plan a litter you may obtain a Licence at a reduced rate...... But.!... in order to obtain that Licence they have to know that your breeders premises will be in compliance with your local councils Development Control Requirements. (which have all been updated to mean your breeding establishment, must comply with their commercial boarding/breeding requirements)... You have to read between the lines.

Our now hobby will be classified as a business even if we only sell one puppy....

Im currently in the process of writing to my local member. He's going over to Europe for an ANZAC service next week, but I'm going to try and meet with him as well.

I've got a couple of (registered) cat breeders as customers of mine as well that Im hoping will stand beside me in our little local fight.

The cat breeders will be affected by this Legislation as well, they need to be doing the letters to their MP's too.

Just like to point out that not everyone on DOL is from NSW. We can support, we can write but they're not going to take much notice of anyone who isn't a constituent.

I understand Sheridan but it would be in every one's best interest to be and stay informed. Your States will be next on the Hit List.... The RSPCA and the AWL are very determined.!!!!!!

I'm going to bump this thread because it is important. I can't believe that no one is interested.!!!!!!!!!!!!

Please, EVERYONE TAKE NOTE.!!!! and get informed on what is happening here.!

I would like to add to this... That besides members of Dogs NSW needing to get actively involved (and I mean actively)...

We also need the support of all the members of DOL forums. These forums are for owners of pure bred dogs and in the words of the President of Dogs NSW... "If we don't get our message across, believe me it could well herald the demise of Dogs NSW, so no matter what discipline you are involved in, the threat is there that your source of pure bred dogs could rapidly dry up"

If this Legislation gets through NSW Parliament, it will rapidly be taken up by other States... DOL has a huge following and many friends have been made on these Forums because of the shared interest in pure bred dogs... Do you want your right to choose what breed you want to live with be taken away?.... Registered pure bred breeders need your support as well.!!!...

Perhaps you could contact the breeder that you got your purebred pup/dog from and ask them how you can help.

Wow just read everything and I think it will mean I will have to give up breeding. My dogs all live in the house do it would mean constructing kennels I would never use, plusI'd have to put in a septic system? That would surely cost me a fortune. As well as a continuous supply ofwater to said kennels .. Lovely way to throw money away when you live in an arid area. How do they expect small hobby breeders such as myself to afford this??

I'm in the same boat indigirl, my 5 Papillons live in the house with me and nobody can tell me they are better of confined to commercial kennels. My dogs are my family, breeding/showing is a hobby. I usually just breed one litter a year, very rarely 2 but in the last 14 months I have reared 2 litters totatling 3 puppies. I kept for show.... While I am happy for the RSPCA or the AWL to come see how I care for my dogs, I cannot meet the other requirements expected of breeders.... This Legislation will surely have a huge snow ball effect..

Does this help?

http://photo.stackexchange.com/questions/13717/how-do-i-convert-lens-mm-to-optical-zoom-times

Ah, Thank you CrazyCresties.!...I have added that to my favorites, as I have a feeling I will be visiting it many times.

Good to know also that I'm not the only stupid cookie on the block (and probably won't be the last) But I think that's exactly where the confusion comes from and why they sell promote them as 20x or 40x Zoom....I just went and had a look at the lens on my Powershot and it's a 5.0-100.omm. 1:2.8-5.7USM so nowhere near what I have now. :)

Yes.! I guess it's like trying to break a bad habit. :laugh: I'm thinking I should get the focal zoom from the 300mm but it obviously does not work that way..... Told you I was very new to this.

I'm not familiar with the Nikon kit lenses but what I would suggest if you're just starting out is to learn your camera and learn what you can get out of the lenses you have. Between the two kit lenses you are covering an excellent range of focal lengths and you will gradually find that you start to lean towards each lens for different reasons and different focal lengths within each lens. I personally wouldn't consider buying additional lenses until you know whether the ones you have can meet your needs and have more of a feel for what you specifically want. I think if you're wanting to shoot dog shows and dogs running around you'll tend to use the 55-300mm lens most of the time and switch to the smaller lens when wanting to shoot in tighter spaces. :)

Sounds like pretty good advice to me Snook.!

I'm taking it to our specialty show tomorrow and was just going to put it in the Guide mode, i wonder if i should just take my old camera tomorrow ans save the Nikon untill I'm more acquainted with it...

Congrats on your first DSLR :D I would say the 55-300mm will cover a good range to start with if you want to go out and about with just one lens. The long end (300) will enable you to zoom in well at shows, but you may find the 55 is a bit too long for closer shots, but if you can get back a bit from your subject you should be fine.

Have fun and take lots of shots and play with the settings to see what difference they make, don't be too afraid about taking it out of 'auto' mode. Look forward to seeing some of your shots with it :)

I'm not familiar with the Nikon lenses as I have a Canon, but I'm sure a Nikon user will be along soon as well - also it's lens not lense :)

Thank you for that CrazyCresties.!.... When you say get back a bit, what sort of distance are we talking about?....

I have been playing around in my own backyard (which isn't big) with both lenses and a bit confused because I could zoom in on my dogs and see them close up with my Canon Powershot but even with the 300mm lens I don't seem to be able to get that close to them, I can take a photo and crop it and it comes up lovely, which I could never do (get the same definition)but I would of thought my 300mm lens would zoom in far closer then my 20 x zoom Powershot????.... Please excuse me if I'm sounding ridiculous....

Hi Everyone,

I am very new to the DSLR class of cameras and have only just purchased my very first.... Because I'm slow to catch on to anything technical, I've purchased the Nikon 3200 so It can teach me. LOL.....

My question for everyone is, If you only wanted to mainly use one lense to cover most things, which for me would be my dogs and dog shows, (so I would need to zoom in)... which Lense would you buy??.... At the moment I have an 18-55mm and a 55-300mm that came with the camera.... Both feel a bit alien as i have just stepped up from a Canon Powershot with a 20 x zoom lense....

Thanks,

Jo Public has being encouraged to turned away from purebred dogs by certain groups....What we are starting to see is the results of their campaigns...Where are their beloved pets going to come from down the track... It's too late once they have gone.... It's all right to say they should do this and they should do that but the breeders of our pure bred canines are hitting their heads up against brick walls ...we are damned if we do and damned if we don't.!

I think that there has been some excellent responses to your question Willow and I hope you got the answers you were seeking...

For me, it has to be the whole package. Type (it must look like my chosen breed) Conformation (it must be able to function like my chosen breed) and Temperament (it must behave like my chosen breed should)... Our Breed Standards (our blueprint of the breed) have been set down by those that came before us and as guardians of our chosen breeds, we owe it to those before us to strive to keep it as such. Each breed evolved for a purpose and each breed has type, conformation and temperament in line with that purpose...

In your question about forgoing conformation over having a perfect pet temperament. I ask you this, What is perfect pet temperament? Is it the dog happy to just lie around all day and never getting in the way or is it the hyperactive dog, full of energy and happy to play with the kids all day, just as a couple of examples....I say, what one pet owner is happy with may not be what another wants... One of my breeds, the Shetland Sheepdog, the Standard calls for the dogs temperament to be "reserved towards strangers, never nervous"... Many people used to say, shelties are nervous little dogs. But they originated in the Shetland Isles and were used to herd the sheep, they would go off into the mountains and watch over the sheep with little contact with many people. When they weren't doing that, they were watching the chooks, children etc of their Crofter owners. If these little dogs were not reserved towards strangers, then chances were they would go off and neglect their duties....... In recent years, breeders have introduced what some would call a "better temperament" in that these dogs will go to anyone, are more in your face and at times hard to live with because of their intelligence.... But they are not reserved and considered a better dog???

In Breeding for the show ring, its also about what dogs you are selecting to carry on your line and often weighing up what is going to be in the best interest of the breed as well as representing you in the ring.. I also think that there is more to selecting which mate is best for a certain dog then just putting two great specimens together. Often thoughts about what dogs you are going to put together are going over in your mind, months and sometimes even a couple of years before hand....

I would definitely recommend " The New Dog Owners Manual" written by well known Australian Vet, Karen Hedberg.....

Covers everything from Selecting and Raising your dog, Breeding, Geriatrics, Genetics, Kennel Management and General Health Care...

A must have if you are looking for good, sound, advice from the beginning till the end.... :)

I bought the small one to keep my paps occupied and out of mischief..I also have a Sheltie that is 11 and 1/2 years old... This is how they keep themselves busy until the food runs out.... Not exactly how I had planned it to to keep the paps occupied, they were the ones that were supposed to be working for the food, not my poor old Sheltie. LOL.

If she's 3 weeks 4 days now, I would be seeing if she will eat some solids. I think they would be old enough to begin weaning.