Fanuilos

It appears my post from the other day regarding the ANKC and the possible integration of the local white shepherd population may have created some confusion. According to the ANKC minutes of the October conference, the ANKC are conducting a breed survey for owners opinions about integration, nothing more and nothing less.

My post was written based on the information myself and the other people involved in the proposal have been told verbally and provided in minutes etc from meetings with the Canine Health and Welfare Committee and others within the ANKC over the last 12 months.

After the proposal was referred to the ANKC Canine Health and Welfare Committee last year and subsequently investigated, we were told that the committee recommended the following and it was a decision of that committee that the local and ANKC dogs were the same breed.

This is from the ANKC Canine Health and Welfare Committee Meeting Minutes from June 2012;

4.14 Integration of locally bred non ANKC Ltd and ANKC Ltd White (German) Shepherd Dogs into the ANKC Ltd White Swiss Shepherd Dog breed pool.

It was unanimously RESOLVED on the motion of R Veale/C Eastley that the committee recommends ANKC Ltd support the proposal in principle pending a positive breed survey of all owners of registered White Swiss Shepherd Dogs (WSSD).

The protocol to implement this integration could be finalised at the ANKC Ltd October Board meeting 2012.

Rationale for the recommendation:

The committee believes there is sufficient background and pedigree information to safely integrate these dogs with the ANKC Ltd WSSD.

At the conference in October the result was that the ANKC conduct a survey. Rightly or wrongly, we assumed this was due to the recommendation of the Canine Health and Welfare Committee be accepted, hence a ratification of their opinion that the two gene pools were the same breed and should be integrated.

If I am wrong and the ANKC management committee did not actually accept the recommendation of the Canine Health and Welfare Committee, I stand corrected. Having the proposal go to a breed survey is still a very important step in the process to having the local dogs integrated into the ANKC, a step that should be celebrated by those of us fighting for integration. Previously, supporters have been told "different breed, never going to happen". Going to a survey is a massive change from previous advice and if there is a positive outcome, it will be a win for everyone and a very positive endorsement of the way the ANKC can deal with issues like this in the future for the benefit of pedigree dogs.

In no way have I intentionally gone out there to misinform people and my post was published before the minutes were updated as the WSSD item was mistakenly left of the minutes. Had I known the minutes would have such little information and no explanation on why the ANKC is conducting the survey or whether the recommendation of the Canine Health and Welfare Committee was accepted, I would never had gone public with the results as were told to those of us involved in this proposal.

It is apparent that I could have been clearer with my communication with my announcement and I am truly sorry if this has caused any confusion.

I am truly sorry to have been the cause of such high hopes only to have to bring them down slightly. We are still moving a step in the right direction and that should not be forgotten or disregarded.

It definitely is Kavik! We've been working on it for so long and it is great to see the ANKC make such a fantastic decision.

It is my great pleasure to announce some exciting news regarding the Australian lined White Shepherd Dogs and the locally bred non-ANKC White Swiss Shepherd Dogs.

Last month, at the ANKC Conference in Melbourne, the ANKC have made a positive move to send the proposal of integration of the locally bred dogs into the ANKC to the members for a vote.

This motion was submitted to the ANKC in July 2011, by a group of people from both the ANKC and non-ANKC world of our breed. Voting on the motion was postponed to enable investigation by the Canine Health and Welfare committee. Since then, we have worked closely with members of that committee to ensure they had all the information available regarding the case for integration and the history of the breed in Australia and worldwide to enable them to make the most informed recommendation for the health, welfare and viability of the breed.

The ANKC Canine Health and Welfare committee recommended that the ANKC commence a program of integration. It appears this recommendation was ratified at the Annual ANKC conference last month.

The next step in the process will be a positive survey by the registered owners of ANKC White Swiss Shepherd Dogs. The ANKC have concluded that integration is of benefit to the breed in Australia. We hope that all owners would vote in agreement with the ANKC's position.

For further information, please contact myself or Neil Keen.

An interesting read is Jemima Harrison's blog. If you just google her name you'll find it.

Given the fact that vet checking the BOB of those 15 breeds is just a new thing, and it is going to be introduced at all KC shows now. Rather than it eliminating an entire breed from Crufts, it just means that next year these dogs would not even qualify if the same vet checks are in place, so a dog who is deemed healthy will win.

I have a long-shot reason for asking this, but is the problem at the end of the tail? And does the dog have any problems at other body part extremities, such as edges of ear/ear flaps, point of hock ... ?

Just the end of the tail. No other issues that I am aware of. We saw her in November and didn't notice any other issues. I will check when I go to visit though, why?

Thanks guys, I will pass all this one to the owners. I am going to see them tomorrow. Unfortunately, the vet has been bandaging the tail up but she is still whacking the crap out of it but I think the toilet roll or hair curls might help.

Thanks Jumabaar!

We have a dog which was rehomed through White Shepherd Rescue and she is having a bit of an issue with her tail.

She injured it a few months ago and it was split open. The vet cleaned it up and bandaged it.

The owners have been to the vet several times, where they get antibiotics an steroids - the dog has been through 2 courses and she's still managed to open it up and get it infected.

The owners have noticed that it is from her biting it and opening it up from spinning around in excitement.

I don't know if they have had an Elizabethan collar on her while she is healing but I've told them to give one of the Novaguards a try but how do they stop her banging it against things in her excitement?

I have my first litter of German Shepherds due at the end of December 28th to be precise

Little nervous, but super excited

Yay Pockets! If you need a hand, just call out. If you don't have a whelping box, you could probably borrow ours.

I'm so sorry for you Angelsun. Poor little puppies. It is heartbreaking when you see the dogs looking for their pups or when they realise they aren't alive.

So sorry BB. I am sure they would have been lovely pups like Zarah's Mum has produced with the sire.

Hi - I am a UK whippet breeder and would like to tap into the experience of people who routinely dna test for disease. We have always thought that whippets were free of inherited diseases although there is anecdotal evidence of heart and eye problems in some lines but recently, it has been discovered that whippets (in the UK at least), can carry the mutant gene that causes renal dysplasia, both in puppies and in older dogs. This is a dominant gene with incomplete penetrance which means that not every puppy in a litter will be affected but one with just one copy, i.e. a carrier, can be clinically affected but while it can die as a puppy (juvenile renal dysplasia), it might also not develop kidney disease until much later and after it has been bred from. Fortunately, there is a dna test, not breed specific, so that we can at least discover the status of our breeding stock and I am about to send off four swabs with some trepidation. I am familiar with the "don't throw the baby out with the bathwater" theory in relation to using carriers or even affected dogs but I have never read what you are supposed to do with puppies that test positive (in the case of rd, they only need one copy to be at risk but let us take the example of a recessive gene where they have two)? Do you sell puppies knowing they could die before the age of two with all the heartache that entails for the owner or do you euthanise them, knowing that the disease might not manifest itself until old age? Testing for disease is unfamiliar territory for us and I'd be grateful to know if there is some kind of protocol in dealing with it.

I wouldn't want to be in your position. Dealing with a recessive mode of inheritance is easy as you can still breed with carriers as long as you don't put two carriers together. Dealing with a dominant genetic mutation is so much harder as you can't put together a clear and a carrier and the pups will be okay.

Fingers crossed that your dogs are clear. The fact that the disease is possibly fatal, I would be trying to weed it out of the breed pool. There are very few diseases which are inherited in a dominant manner as nature tends to weed those out, very few of the animals end up reaching an age where they are bred from, so hopefully you only have a handful of individuals with the disease.

The whole idea of genetic testing is risk/harm minimisation.

Carriers shouldn't be excluded from breeding as long as the MOI is known for the specific disease/mutation/defect. With the WSS population, it is incredibly small so the chances of using a carrier in a mating is likely. Some of the carriers that have been used are exceptional examples of the breed and on a whole healthy with none of the hidden nasties breeders should be really worried about in their lines, which is why people have used them.

In any breed, as long as everyone is testing and avoiding creating affected animals, it is manageable. If breeders are aware of and utilise the tests available for their breed, understand the breeding implications of mate selection and have knowledge of the diseases/mutations/defects they are trying to control using carriers shouldn't be a problem.

With a small population avoiding the carrier animals may not be possible as you could be potentially wiping out quality lines in the process resulting in loss of genetic diversity and as Lowenhart has said - introducing something worst trying to avoid carriers.

We also thought about the desexing levy ie. $200 which will be refunded to the VET at the time of procedure as (partial) payment for desexing, with any remainder refunded to the owner. Or even organising future desexing with a particular reputable Vet in the new owners area, with the desexing fee to be taken at time of purchase and paid to the Vet at time of procedure?

Does anyone already practice these methods? And if so with how much success?

We have a desexing rebate for all our pups, which is $200 as per our contract. We've never had any pups from any of our litters bred when we didn't want them to be. All the owners have desexed their pups when they have felt it was right for them and their situation, we do advise that they wait 12 months or do it as close to 12 months as possible. When people are paying 'their good money' for a pup, they don't necessarily want a breeder telling them when (and where) they do things. Some people are against desexing regardless of when and that doesn't make them bad owners who are going to randomly breed their dogs or exploit them.

We've never had a pup end up in an undesirable breeding home, actually we've only had 2 litters produced from any of our pups and those have both been dogs as stud, with our full knowledge and we knew it would happen before the dog was placed.

There is a lot to be said about establishing and maintaining excellent relationships with puppy families rather than using the big stick of threats and contracts. Some times people agree to contracts as they desperately want a puppy and having a breeder come back and hit you with that stick down the track and get nasty over it all can/would be pretty upsetting especially if they start threatening to take the dog back.

We had a singleton pup from a maiden bitch, which was also AI. No C-Section required, natural delivery but we had assistance. Our vet is a small animal repro specialist and tries to avoid surgery, doesn't even do surgical AI.

Anyway, our vet used a drug called Aglepristone to induce labour.

Is this the vet at Wyndham?

Yes, Dr John Watts.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/opinion/its-time-to-scrap-puppy-farms/story-e6frfhqf-1226141260548

THE Baillieu Government should be congratulated for its commitment to shut down illegal puppy farms.

But why isn't it trying to shut down all puppy farms?

There's no such thing as a legitimate, safe puppy farm, or puppy factory.

There are about 70 Victorian registered dog-breeding establishments, many of which are puppy farms. This is 70 too many.

Should the Baillieu Government shut down all puppy farms? Blog with Susie all day at The Big O

According to Animal Liberation Victoria, puppy-farm dogs are kept in cages solely for the purpose of churning out puppies to supply the ever-expanding pet-shop trade. From around six months of age, female dogs are subjected to a gruelling continual cycle of pregnancies, and they're euthanased when they're no longer able to breed.

Dogs aren't allowed to mingle with other humans, they don't get to play, and they don't get the love and affection they desperately crave.

And, in most cases, puppies are often taken from their mothers at four or five weeks, and put on display in a sterile, noisy pet-shop window.

But puppy farmers are not the only ones to blame. If we really want to break their business model - where have I heard that before? - we must stop selling dogs and cats in pet stores. The RSPCA estimates that 95 per cent of dogs sold in pet shops are from backyard breeders or puppy farms.

Next time you walk past a pet shop in a shopping centre, don't just stop and coo at the cute little balls of fluff in the window. Tell the owner that they shouldn't be selling dogs and cats at all.

Stand and watch for a few minutes and you will see that a shop window is no place for a puppy or kitten to live. Young kids are continually tapping on the glass and upsetting the tiny animals. There's often not enough water or room for exercise. What happens if they're sad or lonely at night? There's no one around to hear them cry.

I also dislike the way these stores contribute to pets being an impulse buy, like a new handbag, or a dress.

Buying an animal isn't something you do after the movies on a Saturday afternoon because you feel like it. It's a major commitment and should be treated as such.

So if the Government is serious about improving pet-breeding conditions, it must ban the sale of dogs and cats from suburban pet stores - particularly those located in major shopping centres.

This is just another example of Premier Ted Baillieu talking tough, but apparently doing little. His family has three dogs, so you'd think he'd be a little more concerned about puppy farms.

Last year, his government pledged to "close poorly operated puppy farms", give the RSPCA more power and bring in stronger penalties.

I DO welcome stronger RSPCA powers, bigger fines of up to $30,000, and stronger codes of practice, but it's still not going far enough.

The Premier's media release from last year notes that "rogue" operators over-crowd animals, keep them in cages for a long period of time and give them insufficient water and food. So why allow any puppy farms if that's what they're like?

The picture painted by Animal Liberation Victoria is, admittedly, an extreme one. But even the RSPCA describes puppy farming as the "indiscriminate breeding of dogs on a large scale for the purposes of sale".

A defining characteristic is the "often permanent confinement of dogs in barren cages, and forced continual breeding for the duration of the animals' lives", the RSPCA says. It's no wonder that puppies raised in farms and sold through shops often have a range of psychological and behavioural issues because they haven't been raised in a normal home-like environment.

They may also have a range of genetic problems because of the intensive-breeding practices, as well as in-bred health problems that can be very expensive to fix.

At present, councils have to ensure puppy farms only abide by a conveniently broad code for breeding establishments, which means there is great variation between council areas.

It also means councils don't have the power they need to shut down or prohibit puppy farms in their local areas.

In July this year, a puppy-farm operator in Ballan wanted to establish a 100-dog development, against the wishes of both the local council and outraged locals.

But VCAT allowed the operators to establish a 50-dog farm, with a possible doubling of numbers if they are capable of caring for them.

No dog deserves to live and breed in a 100-dog farm, regardless of how clean or sanitary it might be.

There is no such thing as an acceptable puppy farm - they're a cruel form of animal abuse that continues to be sanctioned by the Government.

Puppies should only be brought from licensed breeders or animal-welfare shelters.

If a cute little ball of fluff is what you're after, there are a variety of reputable animal-rescue charities, such as Rescued With Love, which have lots of adorable retrained mutts waiting for a new home.

If you do buy through a shop, ask to see the pup's parents and to see where the puppy was born. You should quickly be able to work out whether the dog came from a puppy farm or not.

Last weekend, more than 1000 people rallied for Oscar's Law, which is a national campaign to end puppy farming.

I don't expect everyone to be activists, but I would hope that any family with a beloved pooch would care about the existence of puppy farms.

We had a singleton pup from a maiden bitch, which was also AI. No C-Section required, natural delivery but we had assistance. Our vet is a small animal repro specialist and tries to avoid surgery, doesn't even do surgical AI.

Anyway, our vet used a drug called Aglepristone to induce labour.

I just spoke to the Department of Primary Industries, the area of the government which handles issues relating to domestic animals which the Restricted Breed Legislation is under.

There are no plans to update the Act to include any other breed. If there were plans, there would be some sort of white paper etc to the Parliament and the bill would be listed for future discussions. Currently nothing like this is.

Yes, we currently live in a nanny state but the Victorian Parliament still has to follow it's own rules and processes. If an extension of the breeds were to be made or dog breeding outlawed completely in Victoria, it would be made public eventually. If/once it is made public, the law doesn't change overnight, it normally goes through a long process to become law. Some times this takes years.

My OH runs an organisation which was affected by the change to one of the weapons acts here in Victoria which made swords illegal. He and other members of the Martial Arts community had meetings with the appropriate Minister and advisors to have exemptions to the laws, hence members of martial arts schools and organisations which utilise swords as apart of their sport can still do so.

If it does turn out that the rumours are true, this is what the dog community need to do as well. The people in charge of all the appropriate breed clubs or other interest groups need to open a dialogue with the Minister and Advisors, their local members etc if this sort of amendment to the Bill comes up.

Also, those of us with bigger dogs that people are more likely to be threatened by need to make sure we have a presence in the community and make sure our dogs are seen by people as not being menacing. Unfortunately, the fact that the breeds listed are those generally used for security work means their reputation precedes them so people have a natural fear of them due to that association with authority. We can change that perception.

The Department of Primary Industries has Responsible Pet Ownership education program, the DPI were recently calling for Dogs Vic members in certain areas to apply to be apart of the program. I know that the closing date has passed (last week) but ensuring the public see the bigger breeds in the best possible light is a very good start to changing public perception. Maybe if you have an incredibly well trained dog who is excellent around kids, give the DPI a call and see if it isn't too late to apply to be a Pet Educator.

Umm, for those who think the media are f***ed please go to The Age website now.

This is the photo they have for the article

We have left our dogs and cats there a few times - the last time was last year for 3 weeks when we went to Europe. Kepala are pretty good with keeping routine. It might not be your dogs routine but they are pretty good and will let you know before hand what sort of routine the dogs get. Our kids came home nice and clean too.

We've also used the resort facilities many times, they are excellent.

gorgeous fanuilos.. really glad i can tell mine apart from colour/markings

Yeah and those ribbons always fall off. Thankfully, if we ever lose two, it tends to be one of each sex, or two very different sized puppies.

Those border puppies are soooo cute.

Our litter taken on Wednesday

ETA - for some reason the photos aren't showing up but they are in the White Shepherd thread....

Finally finished, I hope. 10 pups, 6 girls (one stillborn) and 4 boys.

I never added our litter to the Feb or March litter announcements as I wasn't too sure if we'd be Feb or March.

Our girl has whelped 2 pups so far! A boy and a girl. White Shepherds.