Tapferhund

Troy, sorry you feel that way. Personally, and I would say some of the others feel the same way, I don't see 'petty squabbling' or politics at all. SURELY people can have a discussion /debate , even a slightly warm (not heated) one without threats of being banned , kicked off all the time. You can kick me off if you like, as I rarely visit DOL these days anyway ....actually due to the fact I don't find it as fair , or you as fair minded as you used to be in the past......but then again the whole country is becoming less and less accepting/tolerant of freedom of speech and democracy in general....so its only natural I guess for that intolerance to flow over into every corner of our lives including the least important area ....forums and those who run them.

Sorry if that upsets you but as a still free , at least for the moment, Australian, its how I feel.....and I should be allowed to say that without threats of my membership going. But like I said, kick me off if you like...its neither here nor there for me really as I have only been a member for a short eight years.

cheers :)

99.9% of the time you can pick the longcoats when they are just a couple of days old....with the remaining 1% by the time they are a week old . Where Angelsun gets 6 weeks old ????is beyond me? She doesn't know Shepherds at all !!!

GSD's have one standard of perfection...I"ve never seen in the written word, where it calls for a rise in the centre of the spine...unless this has been a recent addition promoted by the specialty clubs?

As for falling over...clearly you've not done or seen enough specialty events...it's sort of like tipping cows...fun but not very nice really. I"ll find some video of dogs that are so weak in the rear during a walk, they step on their hocks, wobble with great abandon and constantly stumble...these have gone on to win groups/bis etc....because few judges walk the dogs, or if they do, pay attention to the weakness.

Way back when.... showed a young dog with sickle hocks....he constantly stumbled during a walk. He could only be stacked a certain way or he would quite simply fall over. He won the group as an adult (still had these issues) and did very well in the puppy ring when younger. Sorry to disagree, but this happens a LOT....the only good thing about this boy was his exceptional head and that he did not have a roach in the spine.

I think what you need to realise Angelsun is these dogs you are talking about such as "a rise in the centre of the spine, weak in the rear, step on their hocks, wobble with great abandon and constantly stumble" are not what specialty breeders are aiming to breed. Like ALL dogs in the ring none are perfect and all have faults. Now take the German Pinscher for example. Their breed standard states that the forequarters should form an angle of approximately 45 degrees to the horizontal. I have had alook at a few Pincsher breeders webpages both here and overseas and nearly every photo shows dogs whom are practically straight in front with no angulation....it looks as though there forequarters are an extension of their ears....now I could go on about how cruel you Pinscher breeders are for breeding dogs with straight fronts but that would be just stupid now wouldn't it. I am not denying Shepherds need improvements in some areas but take a look at the German Seiger winner from 2011 and go onto the gsdcv website and you will see the top dogs that are winning are not weak in the rear, dont have a rise in the centre of the spine and dont wobble with great abandon! All you are doing is looking at the dogs at the end of the line and being a dramaqueen!

Spot On post !

some of us dont like your style of gsd,

GSD's have one standard of perfection...I"ve never seen in the written word, where it calls for a rise in the centre of the spine...unless this has been a recent addition promoted by the specialty clubs?

As for falling over...clearly you've not done or seen enough specialty events...it's sort of like tipping cows...fun but not very nice really. I"ll find some video of dogs that are so weak in the rear during a walk, they step on their hocks, wobble with great abandon and constantly stumble...these have gone on to win groups/bis etc....because few judges walk the dogs, or if they do, pay attention to the weakness.

Way back when.... showed a young dog with sickle hocks....he constantly stumbled during a walk. He could only be stacked a certain way or he would quite simply fall over. He won the group as an adult (still had these issues) and did very well in the puppy ring when younger. Sorry to disagree, but this happens a LOT....the only good thing about this boy was his exceptional head and that he did not have a roach in the spine.

"Happens a LOT" ? Yeahhh right ;)

AngElsun, I think the E in your username stands for EXAGGERATE :laugh:

Seeing as your avatar is a German Pinscher.......I would assume YOU would be the one not attending EVERY GSD specialty show??? The others posting on here pretty much DO ....attend every specialty show there is....so I would imagine they know and see more in what's correct and not correct than you do when it comes to Shepherds. Yes, there are some not so good specimens of the breed...but that can be said of ANY breed including Pinschers . I am sure there are Pinschers out there being shown that have obvious faults...and I am sure there are judges that put them up over better dogs too. It might not happen overnight , but at least with our Shepherds, most specialist judges, along with most breeders , are aware of and recognize problems and set out to correct those problems .

It might be a good time to put pressure on for some public consultation. Sounds like the legislation isn't yet cast in stone.

Is there any chance of pushing to get microchips developed that include the breeder's identity . . . or creating a public registry so that both the breeder and the owner's names end up in the database and at least vets, ACOs and the RSPCA have the ability to look up chip numbers.

I agree with this.....and then breeders/puppy farms/pet shops should be forced to take responsibility for dogs no longer wanted by their buyers (owners). Then the pounds these dogs usually end up in could be eliminated.

Attacks by these breeds (bull breed type) are happening far more than we are hearing about. Only the other day a friend was walking her old Kelpie on lead along the beach..when a "brindle coloured square headed thing" , as she described it, came from nowhere and latched on the Kelpie and did a bit of damage to his leg/hip area. The owner of the BCSHT was not far away and couldn't have cared less. My friend had no idea who the guy was..never seen him or his dog before in the area. The guy wouldn't give his name...didn't even apologize. Just grabbed his dog and left....leaving her with an injured dog and a hefty vet bill.

With the amount of attacks lately , most by bull breeds or crosses thereof ..these damned people of these damned out of control dogs NEVER learn. You would think they would be extra ultra careful when out in public.......but it seems not.

hmmm... not sure this is a great thing, he's missed the mark the premier of Victoria.

how do they make the jump from illegal to legal, and mentioning petshops to get a pet, does he not read where petshops get their puppies from?

once again no mention to the public at all where to buy a puppy, the better choice to source a pup from. once again advertising people going to petshops so contradicting themselves there already.

in re: to advertising microchips - this is ridiculous, once again targetting anyone who breeds dogs not the ones they actually want to get rid off. how does this equate to getting rid of farms? if we had a system where it was compulsory to put breeder details on chip then i'd be more confident that we may have something, as many have already posted on here.

this is a big scam from the government to try to get brownie points from the public for votes i wouldn't mind betting -giving them a false sense of doing something when actually they are doing nothing at all.

EXACTLY! Well said toy dog...and its typically Govt thinking...stupid and cunning at the same time.

Rogue puppy farms hit

by: Peter Rolfe From: Sunday Herald Sun October 23, 2011 12:00AM

Illegal puppy farms face huge fines. Herald Sun

MASSIVE new fines, jail terms and unprecedented powers to shut down illegal puppy farms will be introduced in Victoria in a crackdown on animal cruelty.

Premier Ted Baillieu will announce the toughest dog and cat laws in Australia today, with legislation to be introduced in State Parliament next week.

"We are not going to tolerate cruelty to animals," he told the Sunday Herald Sun.

The new legislation - to take effect this year - will include powers to seize the assets, property and profits of people operating illegal puppy farms, fines of up to $146,000, 10-year bans on people owning a pet if they are found guilty of animal cruelty and strict jail terms for unlawful breeders.

RSPCA and council inspectors will also be given new policing and confiscation powers and a $1.6 million Animal Welfare Fund will be created through money raised by the sale of confiscated assets.

Maximum penalties for illegal puppy farms will rise by more than $18,000 and penalties for operators who commit acts of cruelty will be doubled to $30,000.

Individual breeders will also face penalties of up to $30,000 and 12 months' prison and fines of up to $60,000 and two years' jail for aggravated cruelty.

Corporate businesses busted under the new regime will be slapped with fines between $73,300 and $146,688.

Mr Baillieu said the laws had been drafted in response to puppy farms found in Victoria where dogs had been kept in cages, tied up for days and carcasses left to rot.

He said the far-reaching action would send a clear message to dodgy operators that they faced massive fines, loss of assets and imprisonment as well as having farms shut down.

"These are some of the strongest laws ever introduced to protect animals from abuse and neglect."

The new laws build on a Coalition commitment to smash illegal puppy-breeding rings following several public protests in favour of harsher penalties.

In another major shake-up, it will become compulsory for every dog and cat sold in Victoria to be implanted with a unique microchip number that must be quoted in advertisements and at points of sale.

A new offence will be created to punish breeding houses not using the technology and fines will apply to any pet store, farm or individual caught selling a cat or dog without the chip, putting the onus on the seller rather than the buyer.

Industry sources said the crackdown could lead to a shortage in puppy numbers and potentially push up the price of pets.

The Government concedes the clampdown could raise puppy prices slightly at pet stores but believes the public will be happy paying a little extra if it means knowing that their dog has not be treated cruelly.

Mr Baillieu, who has three pet dogs, said he was determined to make operators accountable for the welfare of animals in their care.

"I have been touched by the passion in the community on this issue and the efforts of so many who have written to me," he said. "As a dog owner, I am appalled by images I have seen of abused and helpless animals."

It is not known how many illegal puppy farms exist in Victoria but there are 64 approved breeding houses where an average of 45 dogs each breed a litter of six each year.

Until now, RSPCA inspectors have had limited powers even when they have evidence of farms mistreating animals, with their only course of action to refer concerns to councils.

I just wonder about the word "Illegal" ...as I doubt the greater majority of these horrible farms NOW in operation would not be legally registered businesses.........and therefore will be continuing as usual. If this is the case.....then nothing has changed...has it?!

keep me in the loop Tapf, if you're on facebook add me

okay ! As soon as I find out anymore I will let you know !

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/killer-dog-owners-warned-of-ayens-law/story-fn7x8me2-1226135193336

54-year-old man was bitten on the face and arm by the labrador

If that is a Labrador in that pic then I must not know what a lab looks like

what a horrible pic to use when it is not a Labrador

A person has the right to go for a walk without another dog attacking their pet.

Agree

just read in our local paper a 12 yrs od Cocker Spaniel was attacked in our area last month

by a wandering dog

owner of dog just grabbed his dog and took of with it leaving the lady and her dog traumatised

My elderly parents (mum 74, ) are too frightened to take their 8 year old Rescue Cavalier for a walk around the block

Poor mum is also feeling the same with walking her little cavie also

It was only last few days I have noticed that the elderly people in my area havent been walking their dogs on leads

sad that people dont feel safe anymore out walking their pets

Actually, that's happening in a few places including mine and including me. I am starting to think twice about walking around our area as we have a fair few dogs wandering or on front lawns of peoples propertys..and when you walk past (need I say more :rolleyes: ),,,so, now with the new laws and me having Shepherds...if anything happened...my dogs , on lead, would get the blame and could be declared dangerous...so I don't think I will be walking anymore. Instead I will do what others are doing and for much of the same reasons.....drive to a park and give the dogs a run instead.

I would believe that

We need to stop this rot now. I don't believe ANKC will help. What are we going to do.

I have no idea.

For the moment I am trying to find out from others who were also there if that is exactly what was said as I want to double check first before I start contacting my State and Fed members.

If i find out more I will post.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8297934/melbourne-man-seriously-injured-in-dog-attack

A Melbourne man has suffered serious injuries to his face and arms after a dog attacked him in the city's northern suburbs.

The man, in his 50's, was walking his own dog in the suburb of Glenroy when he was attacked.

He has been taken to Royal Melbourne Hospital for treatment.

The breed of the dog is not yet known.

When is this going to end? I saw it on a newsflash on the tele. They showed a man being taken to an ambulance. I haven't watched the video link of the story yet, just read it.

And when will people learn to keep their dogs contained? they are making it look so bad for all of us who do the right thing. Not to mention all the dogs that are going to suffer because of these peoples negligence.

With a 4 million human population and with a possible 1 million dog owners/dogs(?) within that...there would have to be bites happening from time to time......but now with that child being bitten and dying a few weeks ago....the media are going to JUMP on every single little thing they hear in regard to someone (or dog) being bitten.

I heard something today which is frightening. The source of this information is highly regarded both in the dog world and within Govt's. The Vic Govt is planning on adding MANY other breeds to the list including GSDs Rotties, Dobes...AND they are working towards a total ban on the breeding of all dogs as well as the stopping of dog interests such as in showing dogs...for the eventual outcome of no dogs in Victoria once those who are alive now have died out. This I believe is on paper now and is being kept on the QT from everyone finding out so they can bring it into eventual fruition .

I think we all need to band together...every dog owner possible....to fight this!

I knew this would happen ( I am almost in tears reading this. I was srsly thinking of getting another GSD for my boy but i don't think i will bother now. How many yrs till the gov brings this in? QLD is sure to follow (

Get one! To not is giving in and giving up ! FIGHT! Get another Shepherd and FIGHT for the breed and your right to have them.

I heard the dog was a Lab that had attacked. I then heard a report and the breed wasn't mentioned.

The channel 10 news reported that it was a large white dog and that the man was walking his Pomeranian.

The Herald sun reports that the man was walking his Jack Russell Terrier.

Oh well, it sounds like it doesn't fit the Breed Standard for Victoria, because according to it, Pit bulls don't come in white.

Brad Griggs was on Chanel 10 news interviewed outside Parliament House. He stated it wasn't a genetic problem and it is about time the government stopped treating it as such. They are treating the problem in a way to gain votes, and not stopping attacks.

That's funny ! One of the nicest looking PB's I have seen was all white ! The owner used to walk it with a chain collar so thick it would pull a ship (chain that is...not the dog)LOL

Not me. I would grab the back legs of the attacking dog and wheelbarrow him off. I watched a video on how to break up dog fights.

This does not work when one dog pretty much fits in the other dog's mouth.

Go the boot people. I'd happily lose a leg to save one of my dogs.. my hands are very much a part of my living.

That's actually the correct thing to do....go in with the boot and kick like hell. Never go in with arms or have your face close.

http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/8297934/melbourne-man-seriously-injured-in-dog-attack

A Melbourne man has suffered serious injuries to his face and arms after a dog attacked him in the city's northern suburbs.

The man, in his 50's, was walking his own dog in the suburb of Glenroy when he was attacked.

He has been taken to Royal Melbourne Hospital for treatment.

The breed of the dog is not yet known.

When is this going to end? I saw it on a newsflash on the tele. They showed a man being taken to an ambulance. I haven't watched the video link of the story yet, just read it.

And when will people learn to keep their dogs contained? they are making it look so bad for all of us who do the right thing. Not to mention all the dogs that are going to suffer because of these peoples negligence.

With a 4 million human population and with a possible 1 million dog owners/dogs(?) within that...there would have to be bites happening from time to time......but now with that child being bitten and dying a few weeks ago....the media are going to JUMP on every single little thing they hear in regard to someone (or dog) being bitten.

I heard something today which is frightening. The source of this information is highly regarded both in the dog world and within Govt's. The Vic Govt is planning on adding MANY other breeds to the list including GSDs Rotties, Dobes...AND they are working towards a total ban on the breeding of all dogs as well as the stopping of dog interests such as in showing dogs...for the eventual outcome of no dogs in Victoria once those who are alive now have died out. This I believe is on paper now and is being kept on the QT from everyone finding out so they can bring it into eventual fruition .

I think we all need to band together...every dog owner possible....to fight this!

Perhaps (and I am quite serious about this) we could start by sending this to each and every Minister including the Premier.....just to remind them the true nature of dogs and that what happened a few weeks ago in the death of that little girl was by one dog and by what circumstances......no one will ever know.

warning.....you will need a box of tissues

I did it simply because they were not flopped foreward, they were actually flopped to the sides which was blocking her ability to hear properly, especially since the bases were weak too. I also wanted to make sure she had air flow getting in there to prevent rubbish being stuck in there.

Ya purely for educational purposes she will be 12 months old next month

She's got 'fly away' ears and by the looks of it they have 'creased' where they fold.....so that, plus her age, its too late to tape them as they won't come up now. If you are not going to show her or breed with her...then don't worry. She looks cute and they give her face that 'naughty up to mischief' expression.

Boy! has she got muscles on her ! Nice to see a well muscled dog.

yeah pity she's not a Stafford or I'd have no worries her ear set has flopped to the sides too it's pretty bad so I have to try something. Never seen a shep with such crappy ears before we hope it's not something she passes down to her pups down the track.

She will pass that quite serious fault on to any progeny so may as well have her speyed now or return her to the breeder if you are not happy.

This is a problems for owners of all dogs now. With this standard, so many other dogs have been put in danger. And there is also the chance that this standard can be changed at some time to put even more types of dogs at risk.

There are things we can do to try and get the Government and the population to listen. Local papers, writing to MPs and also writing to the opposition, to get some sort of discussion going on this is a start. Don't just let it slide through without a whimper.

It is the fault of irresponsible dog owners that this has happened. Dog owners of all dogs, that have done the wrong thing, have brought this down on us.

Ain't that the truth!

I think that's a great Idea lilli

Unfortunately in the short term a lot of dogs are going to suffer.

And they don't need to nor do they deserve It, do you suggest we sit back and continue to let these Innocent dogs die

I know It's Impossible to try and stop morons, but that doesn't mean there's nothing we can do about It to try and help

That's just giving up and I'm sure owners good owners who are finding themselves In this mess are not going to give up on their dogs

And you're missing the point, this Isn't a Pit or Pit X problem only anymore

Please If you don't have anything positive to add to this thread, don't post, I don't want It to turn Into a negative, It's meant for people who want to try and help and do something. Thanks

ETA

Isn't Peter Hitchener (News presenter) patron of Dogs Victoria? Perhaps he could be spokesperson? What we need is everyone to get together and organize a meeting with him or someone like him who is in the media ....air our concerns on everything including media sensationalism which is not helping the situation at all.

Just an idea???

I feel sick can't believe how far they are taking this

Me too

the whole thing is ridiculous. Our politicians are not thinking clearly......just over reacting to media hype...which is TYPICAL of their species . They have no concept of just how many millions of innocent poeple (and dogs) this is going to affect.......nor do they care.

It shits me !!!!!!!!!!!!

I thought It may be a good Idea to start a thread, on what we can all do to try and help this situation. I honestly think this Is now bigger than just a Pit Bull problem and getting to a very bad point for all, and every dog loving owner needs to step In. I just don't know where to start, so maybe collective thoughts on how we can all chip in. Maybe we can post things such as templates for writing letters, e-mail contacts to who Is best to contact, or any other useful things that can be done etc.

I don't know just thinking aloud here and very very scared at what Is happening as I'm sure many others are as well Please contribute whatever you can as I know not everyone Is great at putting letters together for starters

I hope It's ok to post It here as this Is where It's all happening but will move It elsewhere If you think It may be better

Thanks

Its a great idea R&B and I hope collectively we can come up with a few ideas ...because other than EVERYONE posting their thoughts to a special thread that can be then sent to as many politicians as possible ..on both sides of parliament house....I really don't know what to do. I say this because imo writing single letters to Ministers doesn't seem to achieve anything. I , as one of many others, have sent letters on various dog issues to various ministers ....but to no avail. My findings are Ministers do what they want to do regardless of what their constituents want...because as Australians, there is no bill of rights...so we have no rights.

So.....maybe instead of everyone sending single letters ...we could collect thousands of posts (letters) here and send forward them on to anyone who wants to listen.??????

Lovely. thanks for sharing.

I recently visited a Pets Paradise store and had a discussion with the staff about where there multitude of crossbred puppies came from. They said they def did n't come from puppy farm situations and they really didn't like people suggesting they did. They came from breeders that were registered with the RSPCA they said. My reply was that is absolute nonsense .... and this rubbish is obviously used by management to convince the young staff that all is OK and then they tell the idiots that buy from there the same crap.

Last week friends of mine were in a Pets Paradise store and they too had discussions with the staff of that store over the $1500 poodle cross puppies that were down as 'registered' puppies. My friends queried the 'registered'as they were cross breds and were told the breeders were registered breeders and the puppies 'came with papers'. So my friends said,' the breeders are registered with the State Dog body Dogs Victoria are they?' and the staff didn't know who or what Dogs Victoria was ,saying,"What's that?" ...so my friends explained. The staff then became nasty towards my friends and told them to get out...and then the male staff member lent over to one of my friends and called her and effing C as she was leaving the store.

My friends are going to put in a formal complaint

Joypod, how awful and distressing for you ...I hope gus is okay. Frenchies are such gorgeous little dogs with great natures!!!!

Sorry , can't offer any advice other than grabbing the balls (if the attacking dog has any) and twist the hell out of them forcing the dog to let go. Other than this....shove a stick down its throat , hit the dog over the head with a brick , rock or log of wood .......if there are any handy !