Clubsprint

It's such a waste. I went to school with their owner.

Bundy & OP were born on 22nd October 2005.

They are now resting under their favorite tree.

They were a huge part of the family and will be greatly missed.

I'm sure they will be. How sad.How did a Ridges get out?

http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dogbites/the-problems-with-dog-bite-studies/

This suposedly independant website is dealt with here http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/222305-academic-articles-re-b-s-l/page__view__findpost__p__5537458

You asked for links to show that BSL spreads to other breeds. all of those show that. Italy ended up banning 97 breeds before repealing BSL, but you would probably not read those links either...

It's pretty obvious you are not after an intelligent discussion.

Our legislation is very different in Germany, Italy or the US it is specifically designned to pick up Pittbull's among others. It is unlikely to "creep" to other breeds and there has been no talk of this .

Owners of GSDs, Dobes, Rotis would be well advised to keep them safe from being involved in any "incidents". Being that the liability laws have changed I don't see this as an issue.

You keep harping on about Darla Napora... yes she was a pitbull advocate, but nowhere do any articles relating to her death explain why the attack took place...

Yes I do becuse most Pitbull Advocates want to pretend like t didn't happen.

You ,however ,are looking for a reason to blame the Victim for the fatal attack. Youkeep hrping on about "why the attack took place..." Why does it matter? Does anything that Darla may or may not have done justify a fatal attack? Should society be subject to dogs that may kill you depending on your behavior?

Same as all the other attacks by other breeds.. no-one has learnt and they wont with BSL, that is a fact. BSL gets rid of one breed then the next will be in the headlines, and Joe Blogs will still be none the wiser as far as responsible ownership is concerned.

Is knowing the answer to this question worth a life? 2? How many?

The Pitbull advocates often promote the fallacy of idiots moving from one breed to the next This is a lie. Not true and is not borne out by municipalities that have adopted BSL

which include these US states Alabama, Arkansas ,California, Colorado. Delaware, Florida, Georgia, Idaho, Illinois, Indiana, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky

Louisiana, Maryland, Massachusetts, Michigan, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, New Jersey, New Mexico, New York, North Carolina, North Dakota

Oklahoma, Ohio, Oregon Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Tennessee, Texas, Utah, Virginia, Washington, West Virginia,

Wisconsin, District of Columbia

Many foreign countries have enacted breed-specific laws to protect citizens from dangerous dogs and to stop the importation of fighting dogs (pit bulls). Countries include Argentina, Bavaria, Bermuda, Denmark, Ecuador, France, Guyana, Israel, Italy, New Zealand, Norway, Portugal, Puerto Rico, Romania, Singapore, Spain, St. Kitts and Nevis, Turkey, the UAE, United Kingdom, Venezuela and parts of Australia, Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Germany, Ireland, Malaysia, China and Japan.

Didn't you listen to the Radio interview with Assistant City Attorney Don Bauermeister, there is a LOT of information about how BSL has worked in Council Bluffs, Iowa?

I'd like to know what your stance is on Amstaffs, staffies, bull terriers, mastiifs, (i could go on) is? should they be banned too?

I'm fairly happy with the legislation the way it is written although it doesn't go far enough AFAIK. Pit Bull, American Staffordshire Terrier, American Bulldogs, and Yorkies, Whatever you want to call them, are all the same thing.

Someone should point out to clubsprint that of the 33 dog attack fatalities since 1979 in Australia,2 were attributed to pitbull or pitbull crosses. Someone should also ask clubsprint what he plans to do about the other 31 deaths

Two deaths is two deaths that didn't need to happen.

Someone should ask mymatejack is 2 deaths OK by you?

Someone should ask mymatejack is it OK that two people die (probably children) so that you can have a Pitbull?

Incidently, taken from the article you refer to here, the killers have been a Siberian husky, four bull mastiffs, a rottweiler, and crossbreeds of boxer, greyhound, pit bull and mastiffs.I'd be concerned if I owned a mastif.

2 out of 32 equals approx 6%.

Someone should ask mymatejack does the number of Pitbulls represented as a percentage of the total dog population in Australia come anywhere near that?

I'll answer for you NO.

Pitbulls make up less than 2% of the dog population.

That would mean that the breed is over represented in deaths caused by attacks.

Also from the article you referred to In Canberra, however, RSPCA scientific officer Jade Norris says there is "some evidence that certain dog breeds have a greater genetic predisposition towards aggressive behaviour."

"They might also have a lower trigger point for aggression and due to their physical size and strength they may have a greater capacity to inflict serious injury compared to other breeds."

Ideal family dogs huh?

Linda Watsons research only talks about deaths, it doesn't talk about maulings and bites.

The evidence about the viciousness of these dogs and the danger they pose to society is overwhelming. The so called BSL in Victoria removes this danger from society. Someone should ask mymatejack is that a bad thing?

The ther 31 deaths are not my resposibility. Do you have a sugestion?

[

You'd get more respect and wouldn't be classed as a troll if you actually listened to what people were saying instead of spouting rubbish.

See, I'm a troll and get no respect because I disagree.

Wow, that's so not what I said. See. not reading

Germany

http://www.doggroups...ogs-in-germany/

Italy

http://www.highbeam....1-80325055.html

http://rome.angloinf...aly/animals.asp

US

http://www.akc.org/n...article_id=4376

http://www.akc.org/n...article_id=4118

http://www.akc.org/n...article_id=4376

http://www.stopk9pro....links.php?ID=4

I also know people in the US whose insurance premiums are higher because they have a Shar Pei. Not really BSL but still stereotyping

there is undoubtedly more, but you can use Google too

Firstly,if your not going to live in those counties I wouldn't be too concerned. Your links for

Germany and Italy seem dubious but I will find out directly as my inlaws are German.

I expect they'll be a lot stricter than here. They're like that.

How does any of this prove or disprove BSL?

Which one of the Saginaw Laws do you think is particularly onerous?

Paying the $20 Registration fee?

Keeping the dog in a pen with sides at least four foot high or

Notifing the City Clerk within one business day if the dog escaped,

attacked someone, has been sold, has died, or has been permanently

moved from the city. The Clerk must also be notified within one business day

if “there has been a birth of an offspring of the dog”.

Oh no, now we can't move to Saginaw, look how restrictive they are.

Lousianas out. Look what we have to do.

Under the proposal, owners of "Pit Bulls", Rottweilers, Chow Chows, German Shepherds, Doberman Pinschers, Boxers, and Akitas must:

Be 18 years of age or older

Not be a convicted felon

Have proof of vaccinations for their dog

Pay a one-time $50 licensing fee

Muzzle their dog when dogs are not on owner’s property

Microchip dogs

Keep dogs within the owner’s home or behind chain link, wooden, or electronic fencing.

Hey Clubsprint, how about the entire history of the dog and it's relationship with humans. Is that enough proof?

I'll assume you're addressing Darla Napora's fatal attack. She had had the dog since it was a puppy. She was a member of a Pitbull Action group. Are you

going to say that she must have mistreated the dog?

You're not deemed a troll because you disagree. I think you're a troll because of your completely obvious emotion invoking posts. Your just trying to piss people off. Simple.

How is my post "obvious emotion invoking"? I'm not trying to "piss people off". Show me where anyone that is not a Pitbull Advocate or AntiBSL is going to be annoyed by my posts?

Zara asked if BSL works. The Pitbull Advocates like yourself want to trot out the same old story of "BSL doesn't work". Blah Blah Blah. It does work, I've shown it does. Did you listen to the Radio Stream? Bet you didn't because it's not what you want to hear. Are you going to explain Darla Napora's fatal attack or do the usual Pitbull Advocates thing of "blame the victim"? Oh you've already done that "Hey Clubsprint, how about the entire history of the dog and it's relationship with humans. Is that enough proof?" OK, away you go, tell us all about it?

I'm here to speak for the other side.

If you're not a Pitbull Advocate why would you get upset at my posts?

]They say "IT's Pitbull's now and once they're gone they'll pick on Roti's or Dobes or GSDs or etc." Of course this is unfounded.

Its not unfounded - it has happened in other countries. I am pretty sure you have been pointed to documents that demonstrate this.

Unfounded. Where is the proof? Links will be fine.

You'd get more respect and wouldn't be classed as a troll if you actually listened to what people were saying instead of spouting rubbish.

See, I'm a troll and get no respect because I disagree.

I'm not going to bother any further as you will only believe proBSL propaganda.

Show me some credible evidence not source from a Pitbull Advocate? Again links will be fine.

eg.

Toronto, Canada

Population 2,503,281

In a March 2008 Toronto Sun article, Toronto animal services reported that pit bull biting incidents

had dropped significantly since the adoption of the Dog Owners Liability Act 2005, an act that banned pit bulls:

"And reports of bites by pit bull type dogs have dropped dramatically.

In 2004, the animal services department received reports about 130 of the powerful animals biting humans and animals.

The numbers dropped by substantial increments in subsequent years: 71 in 2005; 53 in 2006; and 44 in 2007."

Zen Ruryk, "One endangered species," The Toronto Sun, March 2, 2008 (www.torontosun.com) (Archived by

You can check the offsite links from

http://blog.dogsbite.org/2010/06/cities-with-successful-pit-bull-laws.html or try

http://www.heartlandconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=481775

http://www.heartlandconnection.com/news/story.aspx?id=481570

http://www.dogsbite.org/media/radio/93wibc-don-bauermeister-03052010.mp3

Just listen to the stream

The are plenty of examples of BSL working to reduce the incidents of dog bites but

the Pitbull Advocates will be very quiet about that as the BSL is generally focused on Pitbulls.

Again still no response about Darla Napora.

View PostMrs Rusty Bucket, on 03 October 2011 - 10:20 PM, said:

Zara

under the current victorian law I cannot bring my dog from SA for training seminars, because she has a short coat and musclely build and is sometimes mistaken for a "staffy cross". She is registered in SA, but not Victoria and I would have difficulty registering her in Victoria because she is a cross breed, and I don't live in Victoria.

That's your own fault, you are a victim of your own choices, if you'd chosen one of the others of hundreds of breeds available to you, instead of a derivative of a "bull" breed you wouldn't have this restriction. Your situation is a result of your own choices, stop trying to blame some-one else

Oh yes, she was pyschic and just knew when she chose this dog that some bozos in Vic would gain office and make such stupid knee jerk laws like this.

I can pick a dog breed that will not cause me any issue with any club or organization or I can pick a dog that gets excluded because of insurance issues, has been the target of BSL in the past, will always galvanize peoples opinion, that most of society view as a pariah. Pretty easy choice I reckon. Pick the dog that will cause (by it's reputation alone) the most hassle and then whinge about it. If your dog is registered and not going to cause a problem you have nothing to worry about.

What if you want to rescue a crossbreed???

I agree that it is not wise to pick a dog that is already restricted breed- but crossbred dogs weren't restricted at the time.

Would you say the same thing if suddenly GSDs or Labradors for example were to become restricted/banned (it has happened in other countries). To all GSD and lab owners- your fault for choosing thw wrong breed?

The last two dog were pound rescues. One was a Ridgeback X Whippet and the other is a Kelpie X Jack Russel. No problem. It's not like the only X's are Pibull X's. I will say that last time I was at a shelter at least half the dogs seemed to have some sort of Staffy or Bully in them. GSD and Labs don't have a bad reputation and are used as forces and blind\care dogs so that would make that extremely unlikely. Agree?

Over the past couple of years, there has been some serious dog attacks involving Pitbull type dogs to the recent death of the poor little Melbourne girl which sparked community outcry to clamp down and potentially rid the community of these type of dogs?. We know that probably all of these serious attacks although reported in media hype as Pitbull culprits, were not genuine APBT's but cross breeds of various Bull/Mastiff styles etc of Pitbull type similarities appearance wise.

Although people get bitten by dogs on a regular basis from all breeds, types and sizes, a trend appeared to develop where the seriously savage attacks, maulings with severe injury and a death were caused primarily by these cross breed dogs of Pitbull style and similarity clearly more of these type of dogs involved in attacks than anything else.

These attacks for the most part were unprovoked active and predatory type aggression where they had chased people down, gone after and attacked other dogs where people were bitten trying to protect their own dog to the horrifying situation where the the dog chased some neighours kids into their home and killed the little girl in the lounge room.

People in community outcry protested that getting rid of these types of dogs will make the community a safer place and reduce the incidence of dog attacks and severe injury and quite frankly I agree on the basis if these dogs had fallen victim to a BSL and no longer existed, the specific incidents wouldn't have happened?

Ultimately if there were no dogs, dog attacks wouldn't occur at all and with that said, a BSL in the extreme would work. Some say that any form of BSL doesn't reduce attack rates, well we know a total BSL of no dogs will reduce attacks competely, so surely in that case a blend of BSL eliminating the types of dogs prone to active and predatory type aggression would have to reduce attack rates over no BSL at all, yes or no?

Zara, be prepared for all sorts of abuse if you come down on the side of BSL.

Pitbull advocates will accuse you of all sorts of things while they try really hard to quote you all sorts of figures to try and prove their case. They will make all sorts of rubbish claims whilst using other Pitbull Advocates to back up their myths. They encourage the all sorts of myths, falsifications and hysteria about BSL to scare owners of other breeds to back them up. They say "IT's Pitbull's now and once they're gone they'll pick on Roti's or Dobes or GSDs or etc." Of course this is unfounded. They'll accuse you of lying, or trolling and wont accept that you can be a dog lover and want to still want to eradicate these unpredictable liabilities.

The thing I find really interesting is that the Pitbull advocates completely ignore the death of Darla Napora,

they just stick their head in the sand and pretend it didn't happen.

She was pregnant and killed (that's two lives)by her own dog in her own house.

She was a member of Bay Area Dog Lovers Responsible About Pit Bulls [bAD RAP]

Her husband has "forgiven" the dog and will bury it's ashes with her.

Does this guy have a borderline personality disorder?

Does anyone else find this sick?

How do the Pitbull advocates explain this?

They had ths dog sinse it was a pup so bad treatment can be ruled out.

Is this just an inconenient truth to be ignored?

How much more proof is needed?

Apparently, Gunner the two year old male did the attacking and there was no evidence that the female dog, Tazi, took part in the attack.

I'm told this heroic breed frequently protects their master in such incidents.

What happened to Tazi, did she forget her role?

Let's hear from her husband.

Greg Napora says that he forgives Gunner for killing his wife and unborn child because it was “just a freak accident…They (their two pit bulls) are the most loving animals I have ever had in my life. Whatever happened right now was not the breed’s fault."

Are these the words of a deluded idiot or what?. Has this guy got any brains at all?

He's just lost his wife and unborn child and all he can talk about is the "love" of his dogs?

Loving like that is hard to come by.

What about the love of your wife? You aren't never going to get that back.

What abut the love to come from your son/daughter?

My dog loves me like a serial killer.

Yep, I'm convinced, great family dogs.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2027286/Darla-Napora-Pregnant-woman-dies-mauled-pet-dog-living-room.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/08/15/darla-napora-pit-bull-death-details_n_927770.html

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/animal-rights/husband-forgives-pit-bull-killing-pregnant-wife-darla-napora

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/peninsula/2011/08/sole-pit-bull-responsible-killing-pregnant-woman-experts-say

http://www.sfexaminer.com/local/2011/08/pit-bull-mauling-death-pregnant-woman-comes-shock-pacifica

http://www.truecrimereport.com/2011/08/darla_napora_pregnant_pit_bull.php

Be prepared for all this Zara. These are the sort of people who will chose the life of a killer dog over their wife.

These are the people that will come after you so make sure that's what you want.

View PostMrs Rusty Bucket, on 03 October 2011 - 10:20 PM, said:

Zara

under the current victorian law I cannot bring my dog from SA for training seminars, because she has a short coat and musclely build and is sometimes mistaken for a "staffy cross". She is registered in SA, but not Victoria and I would have difficulty registering her in Victoria because she is a cross breed, and I don't live in Victoria.

That's your own fault, you are a victim of your own choices, if you'd chosen one of the others of hundreds of breeds available to you, instead of a derivative of a "bull" breed you wouldn't have this restriction. Your situation is a result of your own choices, stop trying to blame some-one else

Oh yes, she was pyschic and just knew when she chose this dog that some bozos in Vic would gain office and make such stupid knee jerk laws like this.

I can pick a dog breed that will not cause me any issue with any club or organization or I can pick a dog that gets excluded because of insurance issues, has been the target of BSL in the past, will always galvanize peoples opinion, that most of society view as a pariah. Pretty easy choice I reckon. Pick the dog that will cause (by it's reputation alone) the most hassle and then whinge about it. If your dog is registered and not going to cause a problem you have nothing to worry about.

Zara

under the current victorian law I cannot bring my dog from SA for training seminars, because she has a short coat and musclely build and is sometimes mistaken for a "staffy cross". She is registered in SA, but not Victoria and I would have difficulty registering her in Victoria because she is a cross breed, and I don't live in Victoria.

That's your own fault, you are a victim of your own choices, if you'd chosen one of the others of hundreds of breeds available to you, instead of a derivative of a "bull" breed you wouldn't have this restriction. Your situation is a result of your own choices, stop trying to blame some-one else