5tumpy

An update guys... We haven't ended up getting her down a trainer yet, no time... However, we have been brushing her daily, and it's gotten to the stage now where she's standing reasonably still... She'll wander a little, but not making it any harder for us...

Thanks for your help guys!

We know how exciteable our lab youngsters can be - why don't you trying brushing her after she has had a good walk to burn off that excess energy. Another thing to consider is putting her on a lead and tether her if required so you can brush her gently and calming her at the same time, giving her lots of praise and cuddles. :p

Yep, sure do!

This morning, we walked to the groomers... It was about 2km... I though she was pooped, we were 10 mins before they opened, she wouldn't move, she just layed down on the grass and went to sleep... lol... But yeah... Will definitely start brushing her after her daily walk...

Anyway- when do we get a photo of the monster in angel's clothing?

As requested! Butter wouldn't melt in her mouth!

Probably a good idea to teach her to sit still for 5 minutes a day while you brush her. Look at what motivates her, and use this as a training tool. Like a treat for sitting still while you do some firm brush strokes.

It would be good to do this after your daily exercise, so she is a bit tuckered out physically and mentally. Most labs are in the puppy stage for the first 4 years.

It's great that you are going to do obedience with her, you will learn heaps and thus have a much happier dog as a result.

Just a thought, she may be reacting to the brush you have, some dogs are very sensitive/tickly when being brushed.

Yep... That's initially why we haven't consulted a trainer sooner... We put it down to her being a puppy in her head, but a adult in her body, and so gave her a bit of leeway... She behaves herself 90% of the time, it just seems to be when she gets excited that we have issues... Again, I put this down to the puppy thing, which is why it hasn't bothered me... Evidently, it's not normal, so we'll seek help...

In terms of the daily brushing, we've tried it, the problem is that she can be pooped one minute, laying down panting, and then crazy again the next... Like all labs, she's very food orientated, but for some reason, even a nice liver treat or 10 won't get her to behave while being brushed... She's ok for the first couple of mins, but after that, off like the energizer bunny!

We've tried all different types of brushed, and mits, and no difference, it seems to be that she thinks anything she touches is a toy!

Yes, IMO, or at least trained to remain a bit manageable.

Whilst a groomer would most likely have better handling skills than yours (given their constant exposure and experience), a wriggly squirmy dog isn't necessarily going to be a 'peach' just because a professional groomer is on the job. It's a little bit like having an out of control, spoilt child and expecting teachers to do the parenting and manners lessons. They often do that as a matter of course, but it isn't their job and actually means they are detracted from their job. But anyway, I stray from topic .....

Yep, fair enough, I seriously didn't realise how big of an issue this was, I just assumed it was normal...

I think you'd do well to learn how to handle your girl - at least in general terms. I don't care if my dog is feeling squiggly and squirmy. I groom him and I do expect him to stand still and not be mucking around while I do it, nor snatching at the grooming mit as though it were a toy. It is the way I hold him and STOP him from being able to 'win' under those circumstances which teach him that standing still is what I require and that he might as well wait there and enjoy the experience .

Teaching obedience helps people learn how to be calm, assertive and consistent. It also helps towards maintaining a leadership role with dogs. But there is also the every day interaction and responses that you give/make which add up to that as well.

I don't know if you need assistance in this regard but if you take up obedience lessons with a reputable obedience school you'll be around others who might be able to indicate as to whether you need more help than that.

Many people go to obedience school so that THEY might learn to be able to train. Others go there not because they don't know how, but because they want the busier environment to work their dogs in. So either way, there would be no harm in it and provided it is a good school, only good .

All good advice, makes sense completely... Thanks mate!

Some dogs just hate the groomers even when they're angels at home. You're obviously putting work in at home if she is obedience trained for you. She's sounds gorgeous, better to have a dog trying to play, than one trying to eat the groomer. I don't think it's fair to expect all dogs to be a robot but as a groomer I am giggling reading of their suggestion for your dog to have more training. When I suggest that I am really saying your dog is a maniac please go somewhere else next time. :p I don't do bouncy Labs as it's just to hard on me physically.

The panicked barking is probably because she is a bit traumatised. A pro groom can be pretty intense for bouncy dogs who aren't used to it.

$35 is bottom of the rung pricing. That being said I always include a de shedding treatment in my Lab groom pricing. Some places offer less for less, but I prefer to offer more for more - at least that way I know my standards are always high and consistent.

Shame about the whiskers

If you feel that they haven't done what they should have, you should go back - however most groom quotes are based on a well behaved dog.

Yeah, she's a beautiful dog! Hopefully with a bit of help from our friendly neighbourhood obedience school she'll be even better!

That's exactly how I took it too... But oh well, live and learn! The weird thing was, I thought she would need to be stripped and specifically asked for her to be, and they told me it wasn't need as "blow drying will get rid of all that fur", so I thought, "They're the experts!".... Evidently not...

You said it cost you $35 more than if you did it yourself - do you normally go to a DIY Hydrobath place?

if so is does your dog behave when you wash him??

Riley can be a bit of a pain when someone else is washing him. He isn't overlly naughtly, but just spins round and doesn't like to stay still.

However, when I wash him (luckily I used to own a hydrobath) he was as good as gold.

I take him to DIY Hydrobath place now that I've sold my hydrobath. Works well for us.

Yep, usually it's $25 for the DIY... $60 for them doing it... She usually puts up a bit of a struggle getting in, but I put my foot down, and like I said, if I tell her to do something, it gets done... Once she's in, and I clip her collar onto the wall mounted chain they have, and she whimpers a bit, but lets me wash her without too much fuss...

Thanks again for the advice everyone... Getting some great info here!

Thanks guys for the honest posts, for the few who did it without judging and being rude...

Sounds like we'll have to get her trained then... Can anyone recommend a trainer in the Penrith region?

Thanks for your opinion... Although I personally think you're being uneccesarily harsh... But then again, when you're a perfect dog owner as you obviously are, I guess it's hard to understand that others might not be...

You asked for opinions, I gave you mine based on your post.

Did you just want everyone to agree with you?

No one in this thread has agreed with me... At the same time, no one else took an arrogant, condescending tone either... It's that I took offence too, not your opinion...

Grooming dogs is such a joy, it is taxing on your body at the best of times, and the risk of injury whist dealing with big dogs is always there. I now refuse difficult dogs.

The Groomers job is to Groom your dog, not train it or wrestle with it.

How would you like a PRO to manage your dog?? Maybe string it up in a grooming stand so it cannot move, sedate it or simply wrestle it.

You don't expect a hairdresser to chase a toddler around the salon and sit on it whilst it is kicking and screaming and attempt to cut it's hair.

If only grooming could be done over the phone.

Yeah, fair enough, perhaps my expectations we too high, hence the whole reason for this thread... Maybe my girl a total nutcase and badly behaved... But I assumed, evidently incorrectly, that my dog's behaviour wasn't unusual and that the groomer would have strategies to counter her behaviour... I'm not shirking my responsibility for having her trained, in fact, I've just asked for recommendations for trainers...

I love my dog want her to be happy and healthy, she's come back the unhappiest I've ever seen her, and as such, perhaps I'm reacting emotionally and unfairly towards the groomer, but I will definitely do whatever I can to get her over her issues with being groomed...

yes but do you have to wrestle the customer into a bathtub and then try and hold them in there, then stick them under a blow dryer while they're bouncing about

I held a large dog once for a needle, the dog bounced up and I ended up at the osteo, on strong meds and a week off work

you can't always talk a dog into submission like you would a person. And some dogs, if they dont want to well you can have 5 people and they still wont!

They were not paid to obedience train your dog, they were paid to groom it. People dont ring tech support then keep you on the phone for 2-3 hours asking you to solve their personal problems as well as their tech problems? What would you tell them? Sorry sir/maam that is not my job

Point taken... Thanks again for the advice!

A bit unrealistic yes, but many expect miracles from the Groomers or the Vets when they have an untrained dog.

The coat thing, well, you normally wont get rid of it all in one sitting, a hydro bath and a dry will loosen up the dead coat and it will be surfacing, so that is something to consider.

If she had come to me I would have charged you a lot more than $35 especially if I had to wrestle with her to get her done. I don't need my clients to be able to shake hands, but standing calmly for grooming is very helpful.

For $35 in many places you would get a bath for a lab full stop.

It is still cheap and if your dog was a handful they probably gave up instead of spending hours for that small amount of money trying to settle your dog.

A pro groomer can not magically train your dog in a couple of hours - that is up to you to do. THe most they can do is try and wrestle the dog about which is 1) unsafe for them and 2) highly stressful for your animal.

By this age she should be handlable, standing still and able to be groomed properly without wiggling. She's not a baby anymore and active is no excuse - I have a breed that can run rings around most other dogs and yet when she needs a groom, bath, nail grind, vet etc there is no issues it is done safely and quickly.

I say enrol in obedience if you havnt already and start laying down some more rules for the dog. Start handling like you would a puppy every day and praise for calm behavior only never praise when she's over excited.

That's guys for the honest posts, without judging and being rude...

Sounds like we'll have to get her trained then... Can anyone recommend a trainer in the Penrith region?

Having done grooming before, it can be VERY difficult to bathe and brush a large dog who is bouncing off the walls. Who refuses to get into the bath, freaks out in the bath and tries to jump out (difficult to hold a 30kg+dog in the bath and bathe them at the same time by yourself!) and then bounces around while you try to dry and brush them.

Yeah... I totally understand what you're saying, but surely it's not unreasonable to expect a pro to be able to handle my ~30kg lab? I have little doubt that this is what she did... But it's their job... I work in tech support, if I have a customer who's a bit difficult, I don't hang up on them... Know what I mean?

It sounds to me like she has an obedience problem, if she can't behave herself while she's being groomed. While sitting and shaking on command are admirable traits, they can also easily be taught to 8 week old puppies but that does not make them obedient, or obedience trained.

Yeah fair enough... But sitting and shaking is only one example I gave... Like I also said, but you neglected to quote... She is predominantly an outside dog, but is allowed inside when we're home etc... If we open the back door for something else, she does not come in unless invited... If my wife or I tell her to do something, she does it...

The only exception to that is grooming... She hates being brushed, she hates being bathed... I thought a pro would be able to overcome this...

$35 is fairly cheap, I'd think....I would expect to pay more for a fullgrown medium/large breed who's coat is shedding and has never been professionally groomed before.

Again, you only seem to have half my post... I said i paid $35 more than what I would have paid to do it myself, i.e $60...

You are making excuses for her. At 22 months, she should be able to stand quietly while being bathed and brushed. She's been allowed to get away with bad behaviour so far, and she probably thinks it *is* all a big game.

Thanks for your opinion... Although I personally think you're being uneccesarily harsh... But then again, when you're a perfect dog owner as you obviously are, I guess it's hard to understand that others might not be...

Hey Guys,

Just wanting some opinions on what you expect from a groomer... Lab owners expecially...

Ok, so Mackenzie (my 22 month old black lab) is a bit crazy... She reminds me of Marley from the book/movie actually... So I accept that she's difficult to groom... But I really was expecting more from a pro groomer than what I could myself...

I took her to a groomer specifically because she had a lot of her winter coat left, and everytime my wife and I try to brush her, she decides it's time to play... So I decided to bite the bullet and get her professionally done, as she also needed her feet trimmed...

So I take her down, drop her off... 3 hours later, I pick her up... She's been bathed, but the dead fur is literally visably hanging off her, if I pat her I get fur in between my fingers, and she doesn't look like she's brushed at all... They did a good job on her feet, but they also clipped her whiskers, which I didn't ask to be done, and I liked her better with the longer whiskers...

When I picked her up, they told me she'd been a bit of a handful, and suggested obediance training... So I get the feeling they put her in the too-hard basket, and only did half the job... To top it all off, now when I'm out of her sight, she does this panicked bark that I've never heard her do before and so this just adds to my disappointment...

The bottom line is, I forked out $35 more (i.e $60 for the groom) than what I would've paid to do it myself, and to be honest, I think I could've done the same level of work with her...

Were/are my expectations too high?

Is it my fault for not having her obedience trained? While she's crazy, we don't have a great deal of trouble getting her to do what we want her to... She sits on command (both verbally and by clicking my fingers), shakes on command, she doesn't come inside unless invited... So I don't know that she does have an obedience problem, she's just very energetic, and wants to play the whole time... Everything's a toy to her... Which is the problem when I groom her...

Is it just that the groomer was expecting a docile lab and got a crazy one?

All opinions welcome guys! And if anyone can suggest a groomer in Penrith for future reference? In case I decide to have her pro groomed again in the future...

Hey Again,

Typical of Mackenzie, it's like she waits until I'm worried about her to come good again!!!

The lump/firmness I felt before was gone by the time my wife got home from work about an hour ago, so we got the torches out and did one final poop patrol for the night, low and behold, we find a fresh, very runny one (sorry for the visual but you've all seen worse no doubt!) that was the exact colour of the stocking... And there it was, right in the middle of it, so very unpleasant, but there nonetheless!

So, all that worrying for absolutely nothing! It came out in tack, not even torn, I could've washed it and my wife wouldn't any the wiser, but of course, I turfed it straight into the bin!

Thanks a lot for the advise guys, good know I'm not the only one with a dopey dog who doesn't know what's food and what isn't!!!

Take care all!

Bryce (5tumpy), Lauren (his wife) and Mackenzie the (typically dopey, but very intelligent when it suits) Labrador.

Hey All,

Sorry about the slow reply... Been busy at work and stuff, forgot to come back and check after the first few replies...

We're starting to get a little worried... She hasn't pooped it out yet that we've seen... In the first 24 hours, at the Vet's advise, we gave her food until she wouldn't eat anymore (about 1kg of pedigree casserole tinned food) but since then, she hasn't eaten... It's been about 36 hours since she ate, which, as lab owners would know, would normally lead to her whining and sooking... Then again, in the first 24 hours she ate what we'd usually give her in 6 days, so maybe it's normal...

Her tummy, pretty much right in the middle of her bald spot, is very firm, and she doesn't like being prodded, but no yelping or anything, so I'm not sure if she's just protesting like I would if I was getting poked there and didn't know why, or if she's tender... She's stilling a bundle of energy, and apart from the loss of appetite is her normal self... So we've set Saturday as the deadline, unless we notice a change first... Come Saturday, if it's not pooped out, we're going the vet, just to be safe, as most people I talk to say it usually takes a couple of days to pass these things...

But yeah, keep the advise coming guys, is there anything in particular I should be looking for why checking her? Any particular spot? I have no idea where a doggy's intestines are, so it's pure guess work when looking for lumps etc that the stocking would make...

Thanks again all!

Hey Guys,

My wife was doing the washing, and my incredibly stupid Black Lab decided to eat a stocking that fell on the floor... She's about 30kg, 20 months old, and the stocking was a knee-high stocking...

We called the Vet immediately, and she advised us to get our hands on a low-end casserole canned food, and try and induce diarreha...

We've done that, and given her 700g of Pedigree casserole food so far, but we're wondering if we should keep giving it to her until she poos, or if we should just feed her normally... I don't want to keep calling the Vet, unless I absolutely have to, so any advise you could give would be fantastic...

Thanks all!

EDIT.... Forgot to thank PPS for the quick reply.

Thanks so much for the speedy reply, PPS...

If it's fed at the same time as the dry, the two do not digest at the same rate. Raw food digests much quicker than dry.

Fair enough, we do actually give them to her at the same time, but in different bowls, she never eats the dry straight away, usually she eats it in the morning, so we might start giving her the dry in the morning... But that still doesn't explain the passing wind exclusively on the petbarn mince? The other, canned wet food, she doesn't experience any wind at all... That's my major concern here...

If you want to feed her some raw in her diet, maybe look a couple of days a week where it's raw only. Give her chicken wings, carcass, lamb flap, a roo tail, or rabbit. There's lots of things to choose from and none of it requires and prepartion and it's all easily stored in the freezer. Introduce the foods to her one at a time, chicken or the lamb flap is probably the best place to start.

I've been reluctant to give her anything with chicken bones in it, as I have a friend who's dog nearly died when piece of chicken bone from a chicken frame punctured his throat... I was bad enough getting my girl desexed, don't even want to fathom anything of that magnitude! She does get plenty of bones though, mostly beef and lamb bones from our local butcher... He sell bags of "Dog Bones" that are offcuts from the human stuff, lots of meat and all the good stuff on them, she gets the bigger, meatier ones as meals once or twice a week, and smaller ones as treats if we want to behave while we have visitors etc...

In saying that though, given that she's in great condition, granted a little on the heavy side, is it really necessary to be changing her diet dramatically? If the wind is a major concern, then I'd do it in a heartbeat, but it seems to me to be a case of "If it aint broke, don't fix it."... That is with the assumption that the wind is nothing to worry about...

Evening All!

Just after a bit of advice on what food to give my 18 month old black Lab, Mackenzie.

We feed her once a day, she gets about 2 cups dry food, we buy PAL dry food, from what I can see it's the best value, $$$ for weight, that has "meat and meat by-products" listed as the 1st ingredients, and she also gets about 300g (she's about 30kg) of "Petbarn" chicken mince, or about a 1/3 of a 750g can of PAL wet food, we give her about a month on each, as she get bored with one after about that time. We also replace her meat with Tuna once a week for her coat, as recommended by our vet, and once a week, replace her meat with a meaty bone, as she's a little on the heavy side, again, recommended by the vet.

Now, to my question;

I've noticed, when she's on the mince, she's really, really flatulent, and when she does pass wind, it could strip the paint off the walls, it's that putrid! She loves the mince, she seems to inhale it, and her poo is fine, well-formed, not hard, not runny, so I'm not sure there's anything to worry about, but though it was worth asking, because when we get her back on the canned food, she stops passing wind again. So, is the flatulence something to worry about? Or is it just a doggy-thing? We're happy to ignore the smell, as long as she's happy, which she seems to be.

Thanks guys!

She's back to her normal self today... When she wants our attention, she barks, not whimpers... LOL...

I went out and had a look around this morning, and she'd been eating grass as well, so she must've just eaten something that smelled good but didn't sit well!

Thanks again for your help guys!

Thanks guys... Since I brought her in and put her in her crate with me, she's been asleep the whole time, just like usual... I've just put her back in the laundry... She hasn't shown any of the whimpering and hasn't vomited for hours, and is back to her normal self!

I tried to check her gums, and all she wanted to do was turn it into a game... LOL... I managed to check them out though, and nothing is any different than usual there... So looks like it might another case of a paranoid "father" with the woman always being right! lol

Thanks again for your help, some really, really valuable info there that I searched for hours for... Practical symptoms, not just the text book ones you see!

Bryce and Mackenzie (the Black Lab)

This evening, she's been pretty sooky, I keep hearing her whimpering loudly, which is unusual for her. ... She's off her food, and I can see a couple of vomits on the grass. I've checked her stomach, she feels a little firm...

These are the bits that would concern me, as they do you too.

• "firm belly" .... is it like a drum? Not a conclusive test, but place your index and middle finger side by side and rest them to the side of the belly. Now tap firmly on your two fingers with the same fingers of your other hand. Does it sound hollow, drum like?
  
• What's in the vomit? Food and bile? Or just froth?
  
• Is she drinking?
  
• Does she have a temperature?
  
• Has she pooped recently? If so, is the poop normal?
  

I am thinking possibly these things, although I don't wish to have you panicking for no reason as (a) I can't see your dog and (b) I am not a Vet :

• Bloat - this is an urgent condition and needs immediate Veterinary attention.
  
• Blockage - depending on what it is and where it is as to whether it manages to 'move' through the system. Still something that deserves Veterinary attention asap.
  
• Stomach bug. Might need antibiotics.
  

It could be nothing. But I am inclined to let myself trust my instincts, even though sometimes they are wrong I have been thankful when I haven't ignored them on other occasions. I can only suggest you do the same. You know your dog better than any of us. There's no shame in being wrong and getting professional help to tell you that your dog is fine.

Thanks for the quick replies guys! To be honest, with the firm belly, I think I may be just being paranoid, she seems be to be a little tender, but tapping it doesn't really create any noise.

The vomit was bright orange, and looked to me to be undigested food... The colour is also similar to some of her dry food... The vomit looks very similar to her poop, except for the clearly defined undigested food. In terms of her poop, it's hard to tell what's fresh and what's been there since Saturday when I did the last clean up, but nothing looks out of the ordinary there...

She's drinking a bit, not as much as usual, but going back for water as often as she normally would, just not taking as big a drink as normal...

To be honest, I have no idea how to check her temperature, but to the touch, she seems her normal "hot water bottle" self when sitting in my lap...

I don't think that she could have gotten a sock, although I know exactly what you mean, she loves them if we're not looking when doing the washing! And as far as I can tell, she's not eaten anything unusual, although we do have a few mice running around the place, but she's usually too scared of them to even try to get one.

We gave her some natural, plain unflavoured yoghurt for dinner, and she ate about half of that.

She's sitting here with me in her crate, curled up next to the heater at the moment, as it's pretty cold here in Penrith tonight, and hasn't whimpered for a while, so I'm starting to relax a little bit... Is there any other behaviours I should be watching out for as the night progresses?

Hi All,

As above, my girl is a Black Lab, 17 months old, usually a really happy go lucky type of dog. She's an outside dog at the moment, although she has the run of the laundry (but everything in the laundry that she could get into is 6 foot off the ground).

This evening, she's been pretty sooky, I keep hearing her whimpering loudly, which is unusual for her. If I go out there with her, and give her a scratch, she's her normal, jumpy, hyperactive self. She's off her food, and I can see a couple of vomits on the grass. I've checked her stomach, she feels a little firm, but not visibly so. My wife thinks that she just has a upset stomach, but I'm not convinced, there's something nagging at me to not let her out of my sight...

My question is, do these symptoms sound like something to worry about? Is there anything in particular that I should be looking for in terms of further symptoms?

Thank you in advance!