toby'smum

.... maybe...

while he is indoors like that- it can be used as a learning time.. how to sit/lie quietly without constantly chewing

It can also be a time when he has his feet/ears/mouth check, and a massage.. leaving him relaxed and more inclined to just rest....he doesn't 'have' to chew all day and night....

Yes, maybe you're right - he doesn't have to chew night and day. The massage idea is a good one, although I'm not sure if my creaking joints will tolerate sitting on the floor in the evening! Toby is now weighing 23+kg and previous massages have resulted in him clambering on top of me and getting a bit excited (his testosterone levels are increasing as he hasn't been desexed yet!!)

Maybe I'll have to spend more time wearing him out during the day.......

After having multiple soft squeaky toys shredded I bought the tuffie octopus which is still a squeaker but is a lot harder for her to rip apart - evidence is that we still have it and there are no holes!

Tuffie Octopus

ETA: Sorry just read that your dog demolished your tuffie - do you know what rating it was on the "tuff" scale?

I bought the one with eight legs for small to medium dogs but she still hasn't managed to get in and pull out the squeakers but I know there is one that is designed for bigger dogs that has five legs.

The octopus is the only 'soft' toy that we have now, the other toys we have are more treat based toys such as kongs, buster cube, busy buddy bone and the home alone.

It was the 'Rumble Ring' and the Tuffie scale was 9!

aussie dog toys

triple crown treat balls in the largest size - make him work for his food

Prestige Pet make tough talking balls - they have recorded noises inside to stimulate the dog to play not just to destroy. I think they also make a recordable one so you can record your own voice as well

Your lab needs a job to do so more interactive toys will keep him stimulated.

I've got a couple of similar treat balls and they work well, and I agree that he needs to be stimulated during the day, but my problem is at night/evening. Sorry to sound so negative, as all the suggestions are great. I can keep him occupied during daylight hours, but in the evening when we're sitting to watch TV or read, and he's on his bed, he doesn't always want to sleep, but seems to have this urgent need to chew! A treat filled toy wouldn't quite work on the carpet! He loves softer textured things to gnaw on, but they only seem to last a few minutes. Even the heavy duty ropes can be unravelled in no time flat! I'm not keen on too many rawhide chews as I'm concerned they will swell up too much in his stomach (or am I being over-protective and paranoid!!?)

What about the Black Kongs? They are pretty tough, especially if you get the King size. The Aussie Dog stuff is supposed to be indestructable and tested on lions at the zoo.

Try these links:

http://aussiedog.com.au/index.php?main_pag...ra27j29acouriu7

http://www.kongcompany.com/worlds_best.html

I think it may just be me - but I just don't 'get' kongs as play toys. I use a medium sized one for his breakfast, which I fill with kibble and then plug the end up with cream cheese (Toby has sophisticated tastes!!) and that last for 3-4 minutes at best. I've tried freezing the food plug (peanut butter/cream cheese) and that just prolongs things for another 2-3 minutes. Once the food is out he's no longer interested in the kong.

I gave him the stick shaped kong (with grooves along the side) and filled it with the paste/cream cheese etc and he spent a while licking it then left it alone and the ants had a field day!

If I smear peanut butter etc on the inside of the traditional kong won't that just frustrate him as he won't actually get anything out?

Tilly likes to destroy toys too, so I have to be more selective with what I buy now.

I bought the toy pictured below from Kmart for about $10 and she loves it and hasn't been able to eat her way through it. I've also seen them at Woolworths.

Would your lab be able to destroy a toy like that?

Hard to know if it would last - I've been amazed at the rate at which he tears strips and lumps off seemingly indestructible items! So far his digestive system is coping with the bits of rubber, plastic, cloth, rope and fibres that he's swallowing but I'm worried we may have a blockage soon!

I'm afraid our Tuffie Toy went well until a week ago, and then an evening of dedicated chewing caused it's destruction! It's weird because he had a couple of toys that had lasted since the day we brought him home, the suddenly we have a frenzy of chewing and now - nothing left. Even his absolute favourite - a floppy smelly dog has had an ear eaten! I guess he's teething in a big way. I'm worried that any fibre/rope strands that he eats will create a blockage at some stage.

Hi,

Toby - my adorable black labrador- is now 6 months old and full of the joys of life. Whilst he thankfully doesn't eat the furniture, he is eating through the bank balance as I'm steadily working through the entire range of chew toys available in Sydney. Everything with a rope attached (and some are thick strong ropes) is reduced to individual strands within 5 minutes. All plastic toys show signs of being devoured with the same space of time. Soft toys are too dangerous as he swallows the stuffing! A couple of 'adult strength' nylabones have withstood the test, but I'm not sure if he will damage his teeth at a young age.

We have a back garden littered with trees and he spends much of his 'leisure' time eating sticks and twigs!

Evenings are the problem as he is happy to stay on his mat but wants something to chew. I'm not keen on the rwahide products (and pigs ears etc) as he ingests large lumps and I'm concerned they may swell inside him.

Any suggestions would be gratefully received.

Nathan does a fantastic job.

He does house visits too, you can call him on 0424673763.

Few DOLers here used him and everyone has been more than happy.

Thanks for the help. I'll give him a call.

I would suggest contacting Vickie Austin or Steve Austin at Pet Resorts Australia in Dural. Vickie will do house calls or you can take the dog there.

Many thanks, I'll give them a call.

Hi tobysmum

We have the same aged boy, he came to us a little early and his biting was horrendous at around 12-13 weeks. It's awful and you obviously already have experience with labbies - we didn't, and OH wanted to throttle him, me and everyone in between.

I didn't read back through this fully but has he had much interaction with other pups ? We were besides ourselves with frustration, tried everything, Boz started puppy school and then made a little friend (black lab) who he stayed with for a week. They played and play bit constantly and he came back to us a much improved pup. He still bites playfully but not every single time we pet him.

When he was at his worst, he had witching hours where he was so excitable it was not funny ... we tried to identify these and put him in his crate to calm down, which worked pretty well. Boz still jumps (I have to warn people) - but he's improving and we tell him to sit as far in advance as possible (ie when we see people coming or know someone is at the door. We also employed the method of ignoring him whenever we got home for 5 mins or so and then greeted him we WE were ready. I think this helped.

When he was at his worst, we also booked an appt with Steve at K9 and have that in March so I can share info there too.

Best of luck; I'm sure it will improve !

Hi bozthepup

I'm so glad you've replied as it was your original question on the forum that gave me the idea to join! I'd been on the 'net' to try and get answers. We've just finished the 4 weeks of puppy pre-school and he had a ball! Came home exhausted every Saturday and slept for the rest of the day. He played a lot with a choc. lab bitch same age as him, but he was always 'on-top' and had to be constantly separated by the teachers. Interestingly he got on really well with smaller dogs and wasn't so dominant with them. He met an adult dalmation one day last week on our walk and he was quite submissive and over-whelmed. Maybe I should foster him out for a week or two!!

I know it will improve but I guess I'm impatient and want him to be well-behaved all the time - an impossible ask at his age.

I don't want to be negative either as he's the most beautiful boy and is a real joy to have around - when he's on the ground and not clamped to my flesh!!

Hi everyone,

I've just joined the forum and its been recommended that I post a request on this site as I'm having difficulty locating a recommended trainer near to me. I live in St Ives in Sydney. Toby is a black 16 week old labrador - adorable, cute and a more than a bit 'pushy'. He's our 2nd lab, as our 1st Monty, died aged 14 yrs, one year ago. Toby has been to puppy pre-school (run by Delta trained instructors) and I'm using a clicker with him. He's very trainable, but has real problems with keeping all 4 feet on the ground when meeting people - whether in the home or out. He also jumps up when we're sitting in the lounge at night, and has gone from nipping to biting for attention. We've tried all the usual - ignoring; leaving the room; yelping; verbal reprimands; even used a water pistol but he loved the water!! I've had a behavioural trainer come to the house for a session, but I didn't really connect with him or his methods and so am getting confused and a bit worried that the behaviour is getting worse.

I've spoken with Stuart at Underdogtraining, and he's recommended K9 Force. I'll ring them tomorrow, but I don't really want to travel a great distance to get to someone. Also I'd prefer to rectify the problem in my own home.

Many thanks in anticipation for your help.

Thanks Huski, a number of different sources have recommended K9 Force. My only problem is that as far as I can tell from his website, he's situated quite a drive from my place. I'll give him a call tomorrow though and have a chat.

Definitely give Steve a call, but it will definitely be worth the drive :rolleyes:

OK, thanks - all I have to do now is acclimatize him to the car.................!!

Yes thats right toby, we sometimes encourage bad behaviours accidently.

I did refrain from mentioning "corrections" as when I describe them it can be looked down at and thought of as "cruel" just like the same as "hitting kids" ending up under the cruel banner.

I do admit with my dog methods are a little harsher (cant take chances when I've got a young toddler and another kid on the way) but if rules are consistant then dog learns not to do it so less correction needed.

With my pup biting can result in having a tap on the nose being "told off" etc. Sometimes the trick of holding the nose a pup can turn into a game, and a tap on the nose with the right timing is quick and right to the point. It can be done with jumping to, which I have done to get quick results as well as no attention with first up meetings but of course harder with strangers, but with me majority of meetings with strangers I take control and no matter what get dog in a sit and keep all fours on the ground or she gets "placed back in the right spot". A forceful push back to the ground can work but depends on the dogs as of course some dogs can think that is a game as well. An example is my pup can think stamping your feet is a game, but has now learnt the change in tone when told off.

Can be hard working out what your going to do, but just like kids we should have a level of 1-10. So we arent jumping straight to the highest correction. Say dog picks up a toy they arent meant to, you say your word you taught them eg. Leave it. Dog doesnt listen, you go up to a voice correction. Dog still doesnt listen, you walk over to the dog like "you do it or else".... etc etc. So you have steps to go up just like we do with our kids.

Of course with jumping you would skip a "command".

I do believe with "inside is a luxury", and with my pup inside means she should lay down on her chair or on the floor(but no other chair, no playing with other toys apart from hers etc). But the thing with tying up or restraining a dog can sometimes not help with the dogs own self control and decisions. Its like how we teach our dogs to "stay" or "leave an object/food" or even "get out of a room" Its all about teaching the dog self control and knowing the rules for themselves without having any restraint. We dont want to be physicaly holding a dog back from everything while it goes crazy, just the same as "loose leash walking" which we all strive for. It all depends on if you can do it, but it can help trying to use your energy etc to enforce rules.

This is getting long winded but im thinking and typing. I think all pups have an excitement period on dusk, make sure you get some sort of stimulation in at this time and maybe if you can leave pup outside for 10 mins to wind down before letting him in (maybe people in the family are wired up at this point to?).

I guess after all this I kinda wanted to say if behaviour does have a risk of being dangerous it can be ok to give a correction of a wack on the nose and rousing on them for say jumping (if you can get them 100% of the time and it does deter the behaviour and they dont think its a game). Only you know the dog and maybe each member of the house may deal with it slightly different but you gotta do what works best and make sure the message does get across. As they say "calm and assertive".

ARG *SHUTS UP*

He does seem to have a mad time first thing in the morning and in the early evening, and as we actually had some fine weather today I put him in the garden for a while.

I think he knows I'm trying to sort him out, as he was a perfect angel in the kitchen tonight and lay down quietly and watched me without moving a muscle!!

I'm inclined to agree also about keeping him restrained in the evenings, but at this stage it's a relief to not be jumped up on and eaten!!

Hi Cosmolo, I'm in total agreement with you and the steps outlined above are exactly what's happening with Toby. We seem to be triggering his excitement levels to the point that he can't/won't listen to even basic commands that he knows so well (sit/leave etc). I hadn't come across the phrase extinction bursts before but it makes sense to me. I've just been on the Underdogs web site and I'll have to move to Melbourne! I'm in St Ives in Sydney (north shore) and I couldn't find anything on the site about inter-state training. Do you have any suggestions or know of anyone in my area?

The key, I'm sure, is to give the correct correction - but I'm desperate to find the right one.

TM, you could contact Steve from K9 Force and book a session with him :rolleyes: I am sure he will be able to help as he has helped many others on the forum.

http://www.k9force.net/

Thanks Huski, a number of different sources have recommended K9 Force. My only problem is that as far as I can tell from his website, he's situated quite a drive from my place. I'll give him a call tomorrow though and have a chat.

Here's the thing- its all well and good to try and deal with mouthing without a correction but when the puppy is 16 weeks, the behaviour is continuing and getting worse- IMO you are better off providing a couple of appropriate corrections NOW rather than waiting until the pup has practised this behaviour for months. The dog i saw yesterday had been tried with positive methods which had not worked and for most people its very difficult to ignore a dog who is biting their hand- let alone guests and strangers in the street. Have you been taught about extinction bursts? Here's what can often happen when you try to extinction train/ ignore mouthing-

- Puppy approaches and begins mouthing

- Owner ignores

- Puppy goes through normal extinction burst and thus bites harder (behaviour gets worse before it gets better)

- Owner unable to ignore completely as it hurts and pulls hand away/ makes noise etc

- Puppy learns that biting harder will get desired result.

Giving a puppy a correction to teach them that biting is unacceptable and then redirecting them onto a toy would be totally appropriate- but you need someone to show you the correct way to do this.

Hi Cosmolo, I'm in total agreement with you and the steps outlined above are exactly what's happening with Toby. We seem to be triggering his excitement levels to the point that he can't/won't listen to even basic commands that he knows so well (sit/leave etc). I hadn't come across the phrase extinction bursts before but it makes sense to me. I've just been on the Underdogs web site and I'll have to move to Melbourne! I'm in St Ives in Sydney (north shore) and I couldn't find anything on the site about inter-state training. Do you have any suggestions or know of anyone in my area?

The key, I'm sure, is to give the correct correction - but I'm desperate to find the right one.

Hi Toby's mum

Welcome to dol. Come and join us at those crazy Labradors in the breed sub forum.

I had a similar problem with my 2 young labs. When i first arrived home for work they would go crazy, jumping up trying to out do each other to get my attention and found if i ignored them when they were over excited and only spoke to them when they had calmed down, it took a bit of time but they eventually got the message. It's important not to react to the jumping, i would simply turn away from them, don't talk or make eye contact. I would go about my normal routine, opening windows, changing from work cloths etc and when they have settle down i would then sit down and talk to the dogs. they would still get excited but by that stage had calmed down a bit and stopped jumping up at me.

Good luck, see you at the sub forum

Hi Lab lady, many thanks for the invite - all I have to do now is find out how to get to the sub-forum! I'll wait till my son wakes up and get his help!

I'm OK with ignoring the jumping, but my husband doesn't tend to be so tolerant when he's in his suit ready for work and Toby threatens to jump up and tear a hole in the trousers!

You restrain the pup by tying him up with a lead?

is this overnight, or when he is inside... or when?

I am hoping it is only when he is supervised... for many reasons, not the least being that if he chews at the leash, AND succeeds in freeing himself, he has learnt a VERY bad habit in one easy lesson .. and he WILL do it again!!

If he is crate trained, why not leave him in the crate? (providing it's big enough)..

As he gets hyped up when he chews...and you have just mentioned rawhides etc... maybe you could try giving him fresh raw bones, with no preservatives/additives/colours... and give him them outside, to be enjoyed alone, and undisturbed!

Fresh raw bones are perfect now, as he will begin teething soon. Lamb brisket bones, roo tails... these can also be frozen for him, like a baby's teething ring!!

Perhaps I need to clarify!

He's crated at night for sleeping - loves the whole experience and its a big crate. I'm a bit hesitant to put him in it all evening as its situated in the family room where we're sitting and he agitates to be with us.

The 'tying up' occurs when we're sitting down to watch tv or read. He's in the same room as us, about 1-2 metres from our feet - just not able to eat our feet or jump up and bite us for attention.

I never leave him unsupervised whilst attached to the concrete post and have bought a thin chain metal leash to discourage him from eating a fabric/leather one. Its a strategy to give us some respite and to establish that he has boundaries and its a privilege to be 'off-leash' and free in the house. (I'm para-phrasing the trainer that came to the house!).

I'm waiting for the weather to clear to give him more bones outside - daytime isn't really too much of an issue (other than jumping up) but its evenings and I'm not sure about him being out in the dark eating bones - maybe I'm too soft!

Toby'smum, I think the main thing to remember is to always ignore attention seeking. When you walk out to meet him make say the first 5 mins boring so meeting isnt an exciting thing, so the first 5 mins or watever is matter of fact and attention isnt on him(he may try everything to get the attention but you gotta wait till he stops trying of course) then when his settled just give him a nice calm pat not a high pitched voice etc.

Of course on hand advice is good but I know not always available.

There are other methods of types of dicipline/correction for the behaviour but can seem a little harsher.

Once a pup meets one person that is "exciting" it can take another 10 boring people to get them back to being calm again.

I dont now about the whole "restraining" at night, but use up as much of the pups energy as you can, it can be hard for pups to work out that they can "chew this" but "not that" (my girl at the moment is testing this one inside as she only has 1 toy inside that is hers with young kids theres toys everywhere of course haha).

Work out your best way to make the good thing GREAT and the bad thing not worth doing or unpleasant. All about using your imagination and trial and error.

Good to hear your planning on getting help, it may be a little harder now the pups stuck into doing it, and remember changing the rules can make a pup seem worse at first instead of better (the tantrum of how dare you). But keep at it, its worth all it takes in the long run.

Hi Jesskah, its so hard not to sound negative, but......we really do try and ignore him (95% of the time) but I guess its the 5% that's undoing us. I think it would be fair to say that I'm more consistent with the ignoring than my husband and son. They don't seem to have the same tolerance levels and/or patience. Maybe it comes with the territory of being a mum to 2 boys!

I keep a house lead on Toby during the time he's inside and so am able to tread on it and restrain him from jumping up (only works when I'm there though). His energy levels are med-high, which makes restraining him a bit harder.

I'm wondering about the wisdom of clamping over his mouth with my hand when he goes to bite - I can remember doing that with our previous lab. (he was a bit younger though) and this seemed to be effective. Maybe this method has fallen out out favour now though?

It's easy to forget how puppies are after loosing a much loved member of the family. All human members of the family need to agree on a method of curbing this behaviour & stick to it.

He's old enough to join an obedience club where they can help you with what to do. Find one that uses positive methods.

Thanks for the reply - the local obedience club won't accept puppies until they are 20 weeks old, so I'm going it alone for another 4 weeks. He seems to be like the nursery rhyme - 'when he was good he was very, very good, when he was bad he was horrid'! I'm trying to stay positive but its a bit worrying to think we're moving out of the early puppy stage and into the adolescent period - he's such a beautiful boy and I don't want to be responsible for owning a dog that nobody wants to visit.

I would strongly suggest you engage a trainer to perhaps come to the home and assist with such issues. I saw a 9 month old dog today who has been jumping and mouthing since a puppy and it hasn't gotten any better despite them trying a number of things suggested to them previously. The dog improved within the session by identifying what technique would work best for the dog and them and i think given your pup is 16 weeks, so no longer a baby pup, it would be better to get the help straight away- particularly with a breed that can be known for their mouthiness and where you have 3 adults in the home- potentially doing different things when the behaviour occurs!

Thanks for the suggestion - I have already had 2 trainers here at the house. It's so hard to lock into the 'right' trainer.

The first was when Toby was 11 weeks old, immediately prior to starting puppy pre-school. I could already see that we were going to need help and training ourselves! The trainer was the teacher at the puppy pre-school. She works very much with positive reinforcement - something I'm a great fan of. I got a bit desperate when he was 14 weeks old, as northing seemed to be curbing the mouthing/biting and engaged another trainer from a dog behavioural organisation (I'm not sure if I can mention names on the forum?). He also came to the house and was of the 'tough-love' approach. As my husband points out - I'm not a 'tough-love' type of person, so I wasn't comfortable with some of his suggestions - although the restraining in the evenings was his.

He identified that we have a dominant puppy (surprise, surprise!). His organisation was started by a well-known dog behaviorist in Australia and I have since purchased his book, which all makes sense until I get to specifics with Toby. One of the main issues is that Toby gets hyped up when he chews - rawhide chews; pigs ears etc. He then transfers the chewing to anything/anyone handy.

He's just had his 16 weeks innoculations and the vet recommended that we don't mix with other dogs for another 2 weeks - I'd love to take him up to the park at the top of the road to get some energy used up (on a 10 metre long line that I've made), but I don't want to go against her advice.

Sorry to be so long winded about this but I know that if I can find the key to this it will work out. Yes, you're right - 3 adults in the house aren't always consistent, but the other 2 are pretty well trained to do as I tell them!!

Hi, not only 1st time to this forum, but 1st time to any forum! I'm really keen to access the collective wisdom of the forum users. We own an adorable 16 week old black labrador - Toby. He is our 2nd black lab. (Monty died a year ago aged 14 3/4 yrs) and he has a totally different temperament. He's quick to learn and a joy to teach - everything except how not to get excited by visitors/anyone who's been out of the room for 5 minutes and returns/people we meet on our short local walks. He jumps up at everyone. He also has progressed from mouthing to biting for attention (particularly me - I'm at home with him full time) but also my husband and 25 yr old son who lives at home. He is crate trained and we are about to transition him to sleeping outside at night (currently in family room). Currently we restrain him in by tethering him (via lead) to concrete base of outdoor umbrella stand - moved inside for the purpose! I know from past experience that he will mature later rather than sooner (Monty took 7 years!) but his behaviour is causing tensions at home - not an uncommon issue judging by past posts! Many thanks in anticipation!