Bonniebank

I'm a big fan of crate training and even have a big crate that is permanently in my family room (complete with soft bedding and toys). The door is usually left open but if, for any reason, I need to put anyone in there and close the door, they are so used to it as it's been just another one of their beds to sleep in. If you need to close the door, a chewbone or pigs ear etc is good to put in there with them so they don't feel they're being punished. I'd start as early as possible but that doesn't mean you have to lock them in. Leave the crate with an open door so that they accept it as just another dog bed. Then as training for when they need to stay in the crate you can occasionally close the door and give them a chew treat. My dogs think of the crate as just another dog bed now, even if I close the door.

Interesting such a mix of what people like given the concern about posting photos. :)

Was thinking the same thing. Checked out the Koolie Facebook pages and SOOO many people like and want the solid colours :)

Perry's Mum, a friend and neighbour (we live in the bush) came over for tea tonight. He lost his Coolie to old age recently (17 yrs). His boy was his best mate and my friend lives alone (apart from a few working Kelpies). He spent most of his time with us tonight, cuddling my Coolies. He doesn't have a computer, phone or T.V. Just his UHF radio if he ever needs help. (Sorry for the spelling but most of the farmers around here still stick to their history and call them German Coolies). No biggie..........same dog, different name. Whatever we call them they are all gorgeous <3 <3 <3.

He feels he can never replace his boy but we tried to tell him that it's NOT replacing his boy, it's giving another Coolie a chance at life.

He's now thinking of saving a Coolie but he just had a couple of questions. He has working Kelpies and doesn't want to put them at risk so wants to know if the little rescue babies are fully vaccinated and wormed. If they're not, he said he will need to build a quarantine area until his rescued Coolie is fully protected.

Hopefully, this may be a wonderful home for one of the babies and with our friend living nearby, I can keep an eye on it.

I can't see my friend being able to leave his farm to travel to Kerrie's place in Victoria, so what do you suggest?

Is there a way that we can both help him and one of those poor little homeless pups????????????

Tell him to give Kerrie a call - or you can - sounds like a good home to me. Of course they are fully vaccinated and wormed. Where are you? There are ways of arranging transport.

Southern tablelands and a long way to travel so could you scan the vaccination records please.

Off to bed now as we have much hand feeding to do tomorrow (no rain) and have two of our four dry dams being cleaned out and made bigger,

Talk tomorrow Ailsa.

Interesting such a mix of what people like given the concern about posting photos. :)

Was thinking the same thing. Checked out the Koolie Facebook pages and SOOO many people like and want the solid colours :)

Perry's Mum, a friend and neighbour (we live in the bush) came over for tea tonight. He lost his Coolie to old age recently (17 yrs). His boy was his best mate and my friend lives alone (apart from a few working Kelpies). He spent most of his time with us tonight, cuddling my Coolies. He doesn't have a computer, phone or T.V. Just his UHF radio if he ever needs help. (Sorry for the spelling but most of the farmers around here still stick to their history and call them German Coolies). No biggie..........same dog, different name. Whatever we call them they are all gorgeous <3 <3 <3.

He feels he can never replace his boy but we tried to tell him that it's NOT replacing his boy, it's giving another Coolie a chance at life.

He's now thinking of saving a Coolie but he just had a couple of questions. He has working Kelpies and doesn't want to put them at risk so wants to know if the little rescue babies are fully vaccinated and wormed. If they're not, he said he will need to build a quarantine area until his rescued Coolie is fully protected.

Hopefully, this may be a wonderful home for one of the babies and with our friend living nearby, I can keep an eye on it.

I can't see my friend being able to leave his farm to travel to Kerrie's place in Victoria, so what do you suggest?

Is there a way that we can both help him and one of those poor little homeless pups????????????

Have to Agree pix should be posted, All pups are solid colour no one will be picking based on that, besides which any adopter would have to be checked out before getting the dog given to them for free. Maybe Koolie rescue should start putting a adoption fee on their pups/dogs to pay for some of the costs?? I have had this discussion many times.

I now do private Koolie Rescue and I have never needed a donation, Vet does cheaper work for rescue and I only charge to cover costs, sometimes this means a dog will be sold for only the cost of Vaccination if all other vet work is complete, however if more work is needed the cost reflects this.

That sounds better if you do it that way sheree_e4. Then the applicable paperwork for the vet costs (Vaccination record etc) can be supplied to the new owner (and I'm sure they wouldn't mind paying a bit extra for feed and transport).

When I contacted the rescuers vet (it wasn't you btw.....lol), they also told me that another reason my donation covered a lot more than what they had done on my new dog, was because they provided a discount for rescued dogs. I told them I was ok with my donation being used to help ANY rescues but as I said before, it was deducted from the entire account (including the rescuers own dogs). Oh well, live and learn.....LOL.

All successful adopters will be supplied with bank details for direct donations to our Vet.

Please don't take this the wrong way Perry's Mum but will successful adopters also be given the vet's name and address and not just the bank details? Unfortunately, I adopted a dog of the same breed once and was given the vet's bank details. I later found out through a friend of a friend, who the vet was. I phoned them to make sure my donation went toward the dog I adopted. A little of it did but most of it didn't. Most of it simply came off the account of the rescue person. The vet even told me that the account also covered that person's own dogs. I was only thinking that it wouldn't hurt to give adopters as many details as you can, then no one can say otherwise.

There are girls and boys and they are all solids black, black and tan or one male red and tan.

So now that you've described the colours and there are no merles, what's the problem with putting up a photo?

I doubt it - we don't have them. They do come from a very reputable Koolie breeder and some of her other dogs have achieved very well in agility and many are out working on farms. The breeder is not currently in a position to keep or sell the pups which is why they were given to us rather than being sold.

Surely if the breeder is reputable though, they wouldn't mind allowing potential adopters to view the parents? (Especially if they are asking for help from rescue and rescue needs donations for vet fees).

Sorry to come into this discussion so late but a news item on tele caused interest enough for me to check the forum.

Firstly, a recent attack on humans by what the television reported as American Staffies showed the dogs. I don't know much about Amstaffs but the dogs didn't look like them to me.

I discussed it with a mate who said that some owners of dogs who may be declared by councils as Pitbulls or Pitbull crosses (the dogs....not the owners), register their dogs as Amstaffs for some reason????????

and secondly, IMVHO, no matter what breed of dog one owns, one would have to be constantly aware of what it was bred for when assessing and managing it's behaviour.

Yes. There will always be ANY breed of dog that will attack other dogs (just as there will always be ANY human that will attack other humans), but as an owner of say a dog bred for fighting, guarding etc, one should know and manage the breeds traits accordingly.

No different to owning a herding breed, a scent finding breed, a mushing breed etc etc.

I know owners of spaniels and mushers who can't let their dogs off leash unless the area is well fenced.

I own herding breeds and when we lived in suburbia, had one that would try to work all the dogs at the local dog exercise area. I would have had to keep him on lead there except that the other owners told me not to as their dogs got plenty of excercise and it was very handy to use my dog to round up their dog when it was time for them to go home *rolls eyes*. He also came in handy at the park for rounding up runaway toddlers

Getting off track sorry but what I mean is that I think that the number one issue is the particular breed. Number two issue may be the breeding of various dogs and number three issue is the training and management of a dog belonging to (or descended from) a particular breed.

So my answer to the original question is BOTH.

Haven't read this thread entirely yet.

I received this link via Facebook (animal cruelty causes) and thought I'd come here to get the 'non-hyped up, non-hysterical' version of what's happening.

Some people on Facebook saying they will support PR in this, may be unaware of every aspect of this issue

Bonniebank - how lovely to see you on here again! Thank you so much for your kind offer, this one is now sorted.

Hope all is well with you! :)

You didn't think you could keep the old chook down I hope! :laugh:

Been left with a couple of probs but hopefully, no more brain surgery,

I was just interested in what was happening and saw your topic. Soon as I saw Goulburn, my ears pricked up! (bit like my Collies and Shelties...... :laugh: ).

I hope you're OK too mate!

I'll PM you and let you know what I can and can't do to help.

Cheers,

BB

I can do it one day next week but not sure which day as I have to make doctor's appointment. (I don't live in Goulburn I live about 1 1/2 hours drive away).

Sorry can someone confirm whether K9pro does snake avoidance training (couldn't find anything on the website?) or can you recommend someone else equally as good within driving distance from Sydney (North Shore).

Thanks

Hello Aussielover.

I know nothing about K9pro.

I can't actually recommend anyone as I'm trying to find someone myself. I'm actually looking for someone within reasonable distance from our farm (Southern Tablelands).

The only person I have heard of who does this training within reasonable distance from Sydney is Steve Austin. I do know Steve and he is a good trainer but I've never had to use him for snake avoidance training so am unable to voice an opinion one way or the other.

I did receive an email from someone who does snake avoidance training at Braidwood/Bungendor (near Canberra) but I'm considering the cost as I have 9 dogs (all except 1 are rescues).

Have to go to bed now. Tired from shearing, drenching and marking Angora Goats and Alpacas but will do some more checking tomorrow.

Night all.

People don't actually do things like taping snakes mouths shut and using them alive for dog training do they?!

Animal welfare goes in both directions. Even if something's venomous and dangerous doesn't give anyone the right to be cruel.

I'm pretty sure most dogs that got ambushed when investigating a dead snake would be more likely to become more wary of their surroundings than of snakes.

I don't know about in Australia. The videos I've seen online are from America but yes, some of the trainers do this.

I'm also thinking that the more dogs that are trained not to go near snakes, the less snakes will be killed or maimed by dogs and killed by people shooting them to protect their dogs so maybe a win win situation for the dogs and the snakes??????

Snakes maintain a territory, so killing them does nothing to protect dogs in the long run, and may in fact worsen the risk (snake who has gotten used to dogs is killed, new snake moves in).

Not all trainers tape the snakes mouths.

Aiden2, I did say that only SOME of the trainers do this, not ALL. Methods can be viewed online.

Your comment about snakes who are used to dogs is entirely correct. My problem isn't the snakes behaviour, it's the DOGS behaviour. I don't want to see snakes OR dogs killed so if I can train my dogs to stay away from snakes then again, it's a win win situation for both species.

Just a suggestion, but why not visit the Herpetology thread in the Off Topic subforum here and ask the snake owners themselves? You might even be lucky & find someone in your area willing and able to help. Either way you will get some knowledgeable advice from people who are concerned with the welfare of both dogs and snakes.

Here's a link to said thread: http://www.dolforums.com.au/topic/206902-herpers-in-here/page__st__1020

Thank you so much Wobbly!

I'll check out the thread!

People don't actually do things like taping snakes mouths shut and using them alive for dog training do they?!

Animal welfare goes in both directions. Even if something's venomous and dangerous doesn't give anyone the right to be cruel.

I'm pretty sure most dogs that got ambushed when investigating a dead snake would be more likely to become more wary of their surroundings than of snakes.

I don't know about in Australia. The videos I've seen online are from America but yes, some of the trainers do this.

I'm also thinking that the more dogs that are trained not to go near snakes, the less snakes will be killed or maimed by dogs and killed by people shooting them to protect their dogs so maybe a win win situation for the dogs and the snakes??????

I have never trained mine as such, but we have in the due course of moving around the property come in contact with snakes - they are never out without me.

T o be honest I have very soft dogs, if they happent o be near a snake or even looking at one trying to figure out what it is, my reaction is to yell their name - rather loudly and strongly (imagine a human with a holy crap that snake is close kinda panic)then leave it even stronger and so far they all go holy crap and move away quickly, as do I. I then call them to me and praise them lavishly for one leaving it then two coming to me.

Not sure if it is actually training them but so far they may pause but they skeddadle very quickly and we had one who would wait until the snake went over the pathway or went around it if there was one in his way.

I wouldn't bet their life on it, I just hope like hell it never gets tested really.

Ours are kept in the house if we're both away. Same as you when we're home. They're with us and during the summer I don't take them in any paddocks that haven't been mown or slashed. We've had 3 bitten though in the house paddock but as we were home, got them to the vet on time. Even when they're in the garden we listen for barking and run out to see what they're barking at. Also, when we're around the farm it only takes one or two of the dogs to chase a rabbit or go around the other side of a big boulder and I'm scared they'll run into a snake. "Hoping like hell" goes on a lot here too. :laugh:

http://www.steveaustindogtrainer.com/

Steve does it with his dogs. There's no nice way to do it with dogs and if you're going to ambush the dog at least make sure they cant smell or hear the ambusher

Thanks Nekhbet. Steve is too far away from me.

:) nothing too drastic .. depending on the dog .. the 'ambush ' could involve water, or a loud noise ...that sort of thing.....

It's usually repeated ..in a different spot .... at different times

As to effectiveness ?

Not sure ..we do get quite a few snakes, and we have lost dogs..... but not every dog gets a chance to be ambushed/trained ..and if a stumbled-upon snake is unhappy /challenging , then an inexperienced dog really is in trouble.

Years ago, we had dogs who would kill snakes ..but that was a different time, and dogs were certainly treated differently .

So am I right in thinking that the dog shouldn't know who or where the ambush comes from? or at least not let the dog know you're there until you ambush? Worth thinking this one out! Thanks Persephone.

Thanks for the article Lollipup. Poor dog. Again, even if the method the guy uses works, it's certainly not going to work if the dog is on it's own and comes across a snake.

I've been told that the solar snake repellers you put in the garden aren't reliable either. I haven't received a reply to my email to the trainer at Braidwood

I'll do a search here and see if there are any old topics on the matter. Cheers.

I tried to set up a session with a dead snake we found in the backyard, but the dogs took no interest in it.

Check out this article in our local paper. I was horrified that 1. the dog suffered under the house with no treatment when it first got bitten and 2. the 'method' the snake catcher says he uses to teach his dogs not to go for snakes

Mr Zink said he had trained his dogs so they wouldn't get bitten.

"I simply get a piece of rope that looks a bit like a snake and tease the dog until they attack it. I give them a wack across the nose until they learn not to go near it.

"I had a hunting dog that would come with me, after I trained him this way he would find snakes, but not get too close."

The article - http://www.news-mail.com.au/news/lucky-dogs-survival-battles-snake-eastern-brown/1551453/

Agree the welfare of both animals has to be a priority.

I've been told that if the snake is dead, you should tie a long piece of twine to it and when training the dog, should make it move as though alive???????? I will never wack my dogs during any training and also, I beleive that if YOU correct the dog for ANY misbehaviour, then the dog learns that he will ONLY be corrected if you are present. The e-collar is sounding more practicle as long as it's used mildly and isn't a cruel tool to use.

I also believe that the collar should be worn by the dog (or a similar one with the same odour) even when not being used as a correction collar as the dog will learn to associate NO COLLAR with NO CORRECTION.

No matter the advice, thank you anyway as we can only ask and then choose the method we think suits us and our dog (AND the snake if it's alive!)

Any PM's welcomed and will be kept in confidence.

Regards,

Various unpleasant things may then happen ........[/color][/font]

Don't stop now! What unpleasant things may happen????? PM me (in strict confidence) if you're worried about upsetting people. I listen to everything then make up my own mind and don't condemn ANYONE for their methods.

Thank you so much for trying to help my dogs.

Regards.

I use dead , beheaded snakes ......

Cheers Persephone. Yes, using a fresh roadkill was suggested by some farmer neighbours. Good point about beheading (if the snake has already been killed on the road it will feel no pain) as I believe that the head still contains venom and if the dog does happen to grab it, well............

So what method do you use to stop your dogs from attacking or investigating the dead snake? (which one day of course, might be alive).

Regards.

You really need someone to help you in person, preferably with a suitable snake - and a strong sense of ethics.

Thank you Aidan2. Yes I'm hoping I can find someone but long distance travel for me is an issue so looking for a plan B. Suitable snake meaning????????

By strong sense of ethics I gather you mean someone who has the welfare of both the dog and the snake at heart????? If so, yes I totally agree.

I haven't heard back yet in reply to my email to the person at Braidwood. This is the link if anyone knows anything about this trainer:

http://www.braidwoodnsw.com/heike/services.html

Thank you again for your reply.

Regards.

Thank you Lollipup (love the username!).

I think that's Sydney? If so, a bit far for me to drive there and back same day. I have the e-collar on my list of suggestions so thanks again!

Thanks :) Username is what we call Lola sometimes :)

I believe he is in Kurrajong, but no idea where that is.

I know Steve does distance learning things so that may be an option. Or someone else might do that sort of thing too.

Yep. Kurrajong further than Sydney for me but I will check into his distance learning....thanks!

Thank you Lollipup (love the username!).

I think that's Sydney? If so, a bit far for me to drive there and back same day. I have the e-collar on my list of suggestions so thanks again!

Good luck with it, I'd be interested to hear how it goes.

No worries. I'll post any results of any contact with any trainers. I have 9 dogs here (mostly rescues). Guess it will cost a fair bit but we've had 3 bitten in the last couple of years and just the anti-venim for one dog is around $1000 with hospital costs on top of that so if the training works, it's worth the cost, (not to mention losing a much loved pet).

If we both have to go out, all the dogs are kept inside the house as time is crucial with snake bites. When we're home and hear barking, unless we know for sure what they're barking at, we rush outside and check. They're not allowed outside the house paddock unless accompanied by one of us to walk, play or work the stock.

Edited to add: We're on Southern Tablelands so within about 2 hrs drive each way would be ideal (i.e. Canberra, Southern Highlands, Bathurst, Braidwood......).