Annie99

On the subject of puppy farms, the majority of the general public have no idea what one is, let alone the conditions that can be found at some.

Most of my friends are average pet owners. They don't show, breed or even particularly have any interest in lineage, conformation, raw and barf feeding or any number of things that we who have a particular passion for dogs, know about. On occassions when I have mentioned puppy farms, the response has varied from 'what is that?' to 'oh, yeah I read/heard/saw something about them but I am not really sure what they are all about' to 'bloody puppy farmers, so cruel!'

If there was widespread knowledge, puppy farmers would possibly have a harder time than what they currently experience.

I am unsure really what this whole thread is about - and I haven't bothered to read it as it now stands at 30 odd pages. My response was initiated after reading a post or two on the previous page or 2. Apologies if I am re-hashing or 'whatever' ....

Good on you for raising it again.

My original thread was pulled after I located a puppy farm/byb and asked Q's about what a registered breeder was.

So Steve revived the other thread in a way, which was really about who to report a puppy farmer to as they (puppy farmer) had told me they were registered breeder.

Ah well guys - I would not waste your breath. Annie is not interested in anything people here have to say.

Also - got to love the ole DOL grapevine - pity its not accurate when spreading personal information about members

Not true at all, I'm very interested in what some people have here to say. Otherwise I would not have persevered for so long. Lots of good info in this thread, mixed in with insults and silly comments. It is a matter of separating the wheat from the chaff.

I just don't get upset by personal insults from ignorant people. Water off a ducks back.

A girl I knew brought a pup from a pet shop, I told her all about puppy factories etc, sadly her pup was killed and guess what she went and brought two more pups from a pet shop. Even though she knew i attended dog shows, knew how to find her a great breeder etc she wanted them then and now, people like that you can't teach..

That is very sad, and you can only imagine how they treat their own pups/dogs, if they know full well that the mother of the pup could be a breeding machine at a puppy farm.

Also if someone goes to a pound, rspca or rescue they will get a mixed breed dog and not necessarily learn all about puppy farms there either.

So what? A member of my family gets dogs from the pound. should I smash her over the head about puppy farms? Your point is irrelevant

Not irrelevant at all. Some people when getting a dog are tossing up b/t a purebred or rescue.

My point is there is a whole lot more info out there about dogs available than there is about puppy farms.

I still don't have my PM from Annie.

So I will repeat the question openly again - you have held out that you have a legal background so surely you are familiar with the TPA and the sections there re restricting people from dealing in a competitive market etc?

You have your PM

My point is that most people don't care, as much as we wish they would stop and think about where that pup has come from they don't..

I am all for pet shops not selling pets, and I understand that the ANKC can not legally stop its members from selling to pet shops, so it has done what it could and make it that it has to be a PIAA pet shop, now I am not satying that this is ok, but its hands are tied legally.. So the only other way we can stop this is by stopping pet shops from selling pets..

Annie I think there is a lot of websites out there that are easy to find and tell the public about puppy farms, but again it comes down to wether that member of the public wants to know..

The puppy farmers are only going to give them glossy websites, not photos to the realities of puppy farms.

Ok maybe i worded it wrong, I meant that there is a lot of websites out there telling the public about the evils of puppy farms, and information that the public can use when looking for a pup so they don't end up with a puppy farm pup..

There are far, far, far more with no mention of puppy farms. I have told many, many people about puppy farms who own dogs and did not know they existed. Also if someone goes to a pound, rspca or rescue they will get a mixed breed dog and not necessarily learn all about puppy farms there either.

We will not be judging dogs on their breed standard.

We are not having shows the way shows have been traditionally and when we have shows/events it will be for the same reason the ANKC have their traditional shows to test or exhibit the dogs against others of their kind but it wont be by having them handled by a judge and running around a ring.

So what exactly will these 'shows' entail? I've read that all dogs will have to be examined by a veterinary surgeon prior to 'exhibition' (very time consuming) and that the general public will be much more involved than they are at ANKC shows, but other than that everything appears to be very vague. Other than testing for working ability (possible, but will be difficult and once again extremely time consuming at an all breeds show) and ensuring that every dog can do the job for which it was originally bred (even more difficult as some of those jobs no longer exist) I cannot begin to imagine how one of your 'shows' is going to be conducted or what is going to be required of the exhibits.

Ok off topic but how can every dog be examined by a vet? Now most shows have hundreds of entries, you would quite a few vets on hand and what time would the exhibitors be expected to arrive at the show so they have plenty of time to have their dog/s checked..

I have not had experience showing dogs, but when I showed my cat around 10 years ago, we had to be at shows very early for the vet check (I think it was around 7am). Not sure what the current rules/practices are with cats or dogs.

My latest product Annie99

6 weeks old

Here is an earlier model of the same product, it's about to turn 7.

What can I say? Stunning. Well done

Hi Annie99 you are obviously interested in this subject. If you don't approve of ANKC breeders selling to pet shops, write to each state CC and tell them. The addresses are on the website. Australian National Kennel Council.

If you want to buy a pup, go to an MDBA breeder.

If you buy from a petshop, you encourage the sale of puppy farm pups.

Write to your local MP, complain to him about (a) puppy farms (b) ANKC regulations © pet shops. And write to the minister for primary production in your state. You can write to the newspapers as well.

Don't tell us, we know already. Educate those who don't know. You never know, another voice may have an impact.

Thanks Jed. I have done much of what you suggest and more, I can assure you. Lots of letters to pollies and to councils.

Plenty to Pet's Paradise as well.

None to ANKC. Good Idea. I will start on those. I hope they have email addresses, as 99% of my letters are via email.

My point is that most people don't care, as much as we wish they would stop and think about where that pup has come from they don't..

I am all for pet shops not selling pets, and I understand that the ANKC can not legally stop its members from selling to pet shops, so it has done what it could and make it that it has to be a PIAA pet shop, now I am not satying that this is ok, but its hands are tied legally.. So the only other way we can stop this is by stopping pet shops from selling pets..

Annie I think there is a lot of websites out there that are easy to find and tell the public about puppy farms, but again it comes down to wether that member of the public wants to know..

The puppy farmers are only going to give them glossy websites, not photos to the realities of puppy farms.

Love the way puppies are referred to as PRODUCTS. Hmmmmm now what was I saying a while back about treating them as commodities.......

Puppies are sentient beings, not handbags.

Way to take what sway said out of context.

I did call her almost nutty, now I know Annie99 IS nutty.

Ha ha ha. I don't care what any of you say. I get supportive PM's from lots of people who would prefer not to engage with people who sling mud and insults.

Remember this

"A man with no enemies is a man with no character." ... "A wise man gets more use from his enemies than a fool from his friends."

I think you are being too emotional Annie - no-one is saying the puppies are products they are saying to get people knowing about our puppies we need to get them seen and out there.

The saying is sell the better product, push it get it in the fore front of people minds. They think puppy then ANKC breeder a moment later. No-one is saying a puppy is a handbag. And calling a puppy a sentinel being reminds me of a particular organisations saying.............................

OMG. are you for real??

Because I say a puppy is a sentient being I am linked to an org!!!! Now I have heard everything!!!!

Love the way puppies are referred to as PRODUCTS. Hmmmmm now what was I saying a while back about treating them as commodities.......

Puppies are sentient beings, not handbags.

Annie99, if you knew anything about me you would know my dogs are my world.

I am talking about advertising, in advertising things are referred to as 'products'

Yes you also said

Oodles have done so well because they advertise everywhere - where people buy puppies!

Plenty of "oodles" also bred on puppy farms. Are they not? To meet the demand fueled by lots of advertising.

If I sold puppies I would never refer to them as a "product". Sorry.

Thanks for taking the time to post that.

It was very interesting but highlights the problem, that for people not in the dog breeding world it is very confusing trying to separate the good from the bad, and I think this very confusion is what the people doing the wrong thing encourage.

i am talking about puppy buyers who want pure bred puppies

As I said before Advertise where people buy puppies from.

List your puppies, promote your puppies - Sell the better product!

Oodles have done so well because they advertise everywhere - where people buy puppies!

If every breed club advertised on Petlink/Tradingpost about the benefits of buying from a registered breeder, it would turn around.

They need to be consistent - Push the better product!

Love the way puppies are referred to as PRODUCTS. Hmmmmm now what was I saying a while back about treating them as commodities.......

Puppies are sentient beings, not handbags.

Thanks Monah.

I agree too about one registry. any registry is going to have practices that not every one agrees with, and members that not everyone agrees with

I think if a body is going to represent breeders (or anyone) they should make sure (consequences) the member abides by the regulations of the body. I know this does not happen and this reduces the respect and face of other breeders.

I presumed you meant the ANKC?

I see members getting holidays, or being banned forever, for being naughty. And I'm always pleased to see, when some shocking puppy farmer is exposed that they were evicted from the ANKC some months or years ago, so someone complained, and the ANKC took action. Of course, a lot leave, because once they go to the dark side, they don't want to be in the ANKC.

But I do wonder why Mrs Mekyersik is still a member - and then I wonder if perhaps I have been given the wrong info on her - or is she too smart for them?

The regs need to be tightened for bulk breeders, and for export. I don't think anyone of us likes exports, and I cannot see why the rules aren't changed to prevent bulk breeders exporting puppies to u know where.

You bet.

there is a lot to be desired in the puppy buying public, no doubt about that but it seems to me that we are making it a bit more difficult than it has to for them.

True

stormie i have used dogz as a reference where breeders advertise but again puppy buyers have to sort the wheat from the chaff.

But that is the problem JB.

As others have pointed out you just about need to have a week off work to research this full time. And even then so many people lie and deliberately mislead. Separating wheat from chaff easier said than done.

Unless you're looking inside houses and in backyards and sheds there is no way to stop a member of any organisation doing exactly what they want.

That is exactly what has been happening for many, many years. Some people are passionate REAL dog lovers and will risk trespass charges and criminal record to protect and bring awareness of puppy farms

http://www.prisonersforprofit.org.au/?p=385

Stangely enough puppy farms are still about, possibly in greater numbers than ever. So effective behaviour? I think not.

And you might need to consider that not a huge percentage of people engaged in criminal behaviour get locked up... Especially the clever ones.

Yes. It is effective behaviour to increase awareness.

Most criminals are not that clever, mostly from lower socio-economic groups and also poorly educated. Not too many clever ones.

Annie99 I find you very hard to follow, almost nutty.

Well as long as it is only almost..........

i know sway you and other breeders don't like it one bit and for some of the puppy buying public it;s a confusion that could be done without.

i wonder how the ankc could restrict trade to only PIAA pet shops and still be within the law?

Many have looked into this with no luck, There has been a few threads on DOL in regards to this.

The ANKC can't...

Annie99 - I am still really interested in your views on the TPA and breeders.

You're right on that one.

So for greedy unethical people, they can pay for as many memberships as they like, tell the right people all the stuff they want to hear, and still sell whatever pups they want to wherever they want. It makes not one spot of difference.

Unless you're looking inside houses and in backyards and sheds there is no way to stop a member of any organisation doing exactly what they want. If people are able to cook up illegal drugs every day and make a profit at the expense of human safety and life and get away with it, you can be damn sure that puppy breeders can do it.

Of course there are drug rings, paedophile rings, puppy farmers etc. Greedy people will do what they can to get rich.

But I can assure you people who peddle drugs and cook them often end up in the clink, and not a place I ever want to be.

well some activist you will be :D

I never said I was an activist that would do the things in that link I posted. I said without them, many PF's would never have been exposed.

It's not that complicated. Really!

I wonder if Annie knows about the PETA agenda to stop the keeping of dogs and cats?

Damn. I am breaking my ignore rule again (thanks for all the PM's everyone)

There are some of PETA'S agenda that I 100% disagree with.

I certainly don't subscribe to PETA's extreme view that all pets are slaves, and should be set free.

So for greedy unethical people, they can pay for as many memberships as they like, tell the right people all the stuff they want to hear, and still sell whatever pups they want to wherever they want. It makes not one spot of difference.

Unless you're looking inside houses and in backyards and sheds there is no way to stop a member of any organisation doing exactly what they want. If people are able to cook up illegal drugs every day and make a profit at the expense of human safety and life and get away with it, you can be damn sure that puppy breeders can do it.

Of course there are drug rings, paedophile rings, puppy farmers etc. Greedy people will do what they can to get rich.

But I can assure you people who peddle drugs and cook them often end up in the clink, and not a place I ever want to be.

Unless you're looking inside houses and in backyards and sheds there is no way to stop a member of any organisation doing exactly what they want.

That is exactly what has been happening for many, many years. Some people are passionate REAL dog lovers and will risk trespass charges and criminal record to protect and bring awareness of puppy farms

http://www.prisonersforprofit.org.au/?p=385

this is madness you have got to be joking. militants of any persuasion are totally against my ethics and i deplore those tactics and anyone who undertakes them.

Who are the people who have exposed the Puppy Farmers JB?????

Is it people sitting around in suits being polite asking polite questions and never ruffling any feathers???.