clipandcoach

Corvus I totally agree

It shits me to tears to hear advice based on this handed out to owners of baby puppies in particular.

Arg! Me too. These two dogs are like models of submission. I have a photo of one on the ground with Erik trying to out-submit him. Of course, that doesn't mean they don't try to stick their heads in your treat bag. They just do what they've learnt works. I wonder if to some degree it's a lot of confirmation bias. They are sweet, gentle dogs and I think there's every chance treating them as if they had a dominance problem would actually work. If it didn't, it would at least make the owners feel better about it all. It gets me riled, though, that people get fed rubbish, and then it works for an entirely different reason, and then this just perpetuates the myths. Sometimes I think dogs are their own worst enemy. Most of them don't punish stupid advice with 20 stitches.

My philosophy on 'pack theory' style training is not that is doesn't usually work, but more that the explanation given for it working is not correct. If we look at learning theory then we can see that negative reinforcers (often adversives) are put in place to exhibit 'control' which is often referred to as becoming 'pack leader'. Control of behaviour can also be obtained with positive reinforcers, such as food rewards. Both aiming to avoid a negative reinforcer or obtain a positive one will change a dog's behaviour. In modern dog training we have realised that if something can be obtained in a way that is both more pleasant for dog and owner then why wouldn't we do it? That is why modern dog training methods use a lot of food rewards (and other rewards) as positive reinforcement for behaviour, to give the dog something to work for rather than against. I would question any trainer's methods if they are not explained from a scientific basis (using proven principles and theory's). I would also always look for enjoyable ways to train my dog. Wouldn't you?

I love Karen Pryor! I'm reading "Don't shoot the dog" one of the best books i have read. Also, go on Amazon, you can flick through the pages there

Why don't you try some Dogwise ebooks - they are only around USD10-12.00 and downloadable in PDF format

Ebook - Quick Clicks

Ebook - The Thinking Dog - Crossover to Clicker Training

Ebook - When Pigs Fly

All clicker training books are based on Karen Pryor's method pretty much. I've got all 3 above and I think they're pretty good

Barb has a good point in that a lot of people are taking their puppies out anyway. There is no 'correct' solution to this. You can only look at your own situation, weigh up the risks and choose how you are going to go about it.

Our club trains on a public oval, which other dogs have access to. We require proof of 2nd vacc for puppies - which, depending on the vaccine, makes them 12 weeks (or 10 weeks) minimum.

We recognize the risks, and we explain them to the people - but for the most part they are taking puppies out anyway.

So far, we have been lucky in not having had major parvo outbreaks in our area - and our various vets are pretty comfortable with our decisions. We would have to re-think in the short term in the event of a major outbreak.

One thing to take into consideration is that if there is parvo around, owners and visitors can always bring it into their house and yard anyway. It really can be a lose-lose situation. - not sure that there is any completely 'right' solution.

Hi Smisch, what an awesome idea! Here's my channel:

CLICK to view my positive and fun training videos!

At the moment I am uploading a training series on getting your otherwise fearful dog to love the water.

Great post.

I'm a complete youtube addict esp for posting my training and Trials and watching everyone elses! so lets make a list so we can each add each other and keep up to date with everyone's progress. I have added a few Dolers but i'm sure there's more

http://www.youtube.com/user/sammiimichellii

Anyone Else

Hi LuvMy,

Excellent question, I totally understand your concern here. A baby puppy class can be a fantastic thing if done properly. Generally I would look for a baby puppy class that was performed in a safe and hygienic area , free from the feces and urine of other dogs. If the class was in a room say, there are special cleaning chemicals used to clean floors in quality dog training facilities, such as the chemical F10. These chemicals can kills parvo virus. I would be concerned about putting an un-vaccinated puppy on grass where other dogs had been. If that is what's happening then you have a reasonable concern.

Thank you for your replies.

Our training area is an open grassed area and also a lead free area for the public. My main concern was parvo as there has been many reported outbreaks in my area and I believe that once this virus is in the ground it may stay for sometime and even disinfectants are of little use.

I personally would not take my young puppies there until they have had at least two injections. Yes I know socialisation is important but should you risk your puppies at this young age.

hi, ive decided to put my 9 week old SBT pup into puppy pre-school, as i have a 2yr old toddler so i think it will help alot (i hope)

whats the best age to start them in classes? do they need all their vaxx's first?? pup is booked in to have his 2nd vaxx this friday at 10 weeks old.

thanks

MissMetal you are doing the right thing!!!! Get your puppy in puppy classes the earliest you can with it being safe. Most classes accept puppies who have at least 2 vaccinations but they don't usually need the full vaccinations. Socialising with people in these classes is just as important as dogs don't forget. Look for a puppy class that allows some off-leash work, that does not use aversives (leash jerks and other unpleasant things for puppies) and that focuses on teaching you how to control your pup in everyday situations. If you don't feel you are progressing the way you would like then don't be afraid to ask for your money back after the first or second lesson and find a new teacher. Make sure the teacher teaches you how to control your dog during off-leash play and uses play as a reward. This will ensure that you can control your dog in the park when he is playing crazy with other dogs!

Hey guys,

sorry i know i have been bugging you all a bit about this...but the good news is i am finally getting somewhere with the dogs!

So i am using a poodle for my scent detection. He is highly toy motivated (tennis balls in particular), so to begin i have been hiding the tennis ball in the lunch box filled with tea. Each time he sniffed the box and sat, he was rewarded with the ball. He has been doing this great.

As soon as i start introducing another box (non target), its like he's forgotten that he has to sit at the one that smells. Sometimes he will get it straight away and so i jackpot this by playing ball with him for a little bit, but most of the time, he will sniff each box...but just keep moving on...he usually acts more keen on the one with the tea and tennis ball in it...however he wont sit...he just stands there.

As soon as i go back to step one, with just the target box, he sniffs it and sits like he's supposed to.

What am i doing wrong?

And does anyone have any suggestions on how to phase out the tennis ball so i dont have to continue hiding it in the lunch box?

Now for my assisstance skill i am using my dalmation. He's doing fantastic at picking up the rubbish and putting it in the bin and he has stopped dropping it all the time before making it to the bin. The issue i am now facing with him, is that i will get someone else to place the rubbish on the ground (the dog is watching the person do this)...but as soon as i give him the cue "rubbish"...he just looks at me and doesnt seem to see where the rubbish actually is?

Its not until i walk right up to the item, point at it and go "here it is"...that he realises and comes and picks it up.

Any ideas why he might be doing this and how to overcome it?

Thanks guys

Hi Tigger!

You are doing the right thing, you just need a little adjustment. It's very simple what's happening here. When teaching a dog something, in the beginning it's best to focus on one thing at a time. Now the main focus here it to target the right box (with the tea). What you are asking your poods to do is to target and then sit. This is a lot to ask in the beginning. In order for him to learn exactly what you want him to do, try one thing at a time. Because he is sniffing the box and you would like him to sit, when you don't reward the targeting without a sit you are wasting valuable learning opportunities. This is confusing him as he's thinking, hmmm i just sniffed it and nothing so i'll move on and try something else. That something else may not always be a sit it might be try and find something else to sniff. So if I was you, I would go back a step. Start with 1 box. When he sniffs it (only) 5/5 times then introduce either a sniff and sit or a second box (where sniff only is expected). If you up the anti in one department (adding a new box) drop the expectations in the other (no sit required yet). Once he is targeting the right box with 2 boxes 5/5 times (successfully 5 times in a row with no mistakes) then you can either add another box or a sit. Just juggle one thing at a time. Also, if u add something new and he gets it right less than 3/5 times I would drop down and make it a bit easier again.

If you need more help let me know! This is the secret to all great dog training!!

Goodluck

I have 2 english springer spaniels that I need to get fit, I am teaching them to run on a treadmill, I walk them daily (on lead) I used to run them beside a bike to get them fit, but this is not an option this year.

So, the question comes, how long/how fast on a treadmill, how many times a week???

Thank you

all other suggestions welcomed!!

Heat and floodwaters are preventing my ussual training regime!

I walk my dog on a treadmill everyday. My tips with speed/duration is to learn your dogs own limits. My dog walks very casually on 4km/hr. I generally put him on there for 30-40mins and also walk him outside, although he could happily go on longer than this. You will know you've pushed your dog too fast/hard if she/he isn't eager to hop back on next time. Always supervise your dogs on the treadmill and you might like to try short spurts of higher speeds/inclines and judge your dog's expressions to see if they are becoming too tired. I am training my sister's dog to walk on the treadmill (American Staffy) so his limits are endless. Now he is becoming quite confident at walking on the machine we can take him up to speeds of 14km/hr. He just LOVES it. At these high speeds I stand very close by and only do this for 2-5mins. A harness is a good idea for safety as well if you strap them on rather than a collar. For most dogs though this would be way too high. I would imagine a springer to walk comfortably at 6km/hr and probably even jog a bit higher than that for shorter durations with those long legs! If you'd like to see a video of my dogs walking on the treadmill here's the URL:

http://www.youtube.com/clipandcoach#p/a/u/2/pMFmkFdRzj8

Weighted backpacks are also great and swimming if possible. I also like to call my dog back and forth at top speeds from far distances it kills him!!!

We're both still learning but here it is....

very cute :D

I can't remember where I got the link but there was this site selling iClick clickers pretty cheap, just can't find it now! Basically I'm looking to buy 3 or 4 clickers (preferably iClicks) but I don't want to spend too much on them :D

Suggestions? :D

vetnpetdirect.com.au has them from $3.95 or iclicks for $6.50

7. Install a new sound to recalls, something that surprises her and intrigues her. Give a huge handful of tasty treats when you do this special sound. Weird squealy noises, rolls your lips like a motor car etc. Whatever you like. You will feel funny at first but after 1-2 times of such a huge reward for this noise she will come running. You can practice in the house. Always follow this noise with a huge amount of treats. You can add a command after the noise once she comes running every single time with no hesitation.

Clipandcoach, I tried this this morning- it worked BRILLIANTLY!! Thanks!

Awesome Deelee goodwork!!! Just keep those ridiculous treat portions for that sound for success!

I give quite a lot of training tips on twitter and I am also in the process of updating my website to include articles that outline similar things to my forum posts so keep an eye out if you have a few other things you'd like to work on

I just love that funny sound trick it's just well....funnny

clip and coach - those tips are fabulous ..."hey Tango........we have some work to do" - I have to find a way of proofing him against kangaroos, rabbits and cats......

Thanks Tangerine! I'm glad I can help. I do have proofing exercises for chasing little furries. I would only ever suggest you try them though once you have a very strong recall in a few lead up exercises I usually give in my programs. Otherwise I would be setting you up for failure.

Hi,

We found 2 fleas on Angel this morn. She's been scratching like crazy for the last week but we didn't know why till today. She's scratched herself raw in places. I rang the vets and they said to wash all the dogs tonight with their normal shampoo and treat with spray on frontline tomorrow or the next day and wash all their bedding and hoover the house. I told him she gets Sentinel at the start of every month and he said that's not enough as it only sterilizes the eggs. He said we should use that and topical Advantage. Either all year round, but especially in the hotter months.

We're in Sydney and they don't hang out with other dogs very often, so I don't know where they could've come from. What's everyone elses flea routine?

Thanks

Comfortis will work a treat

Vaccum like crazy and wash bedding if you have an infestation. I heard vinegar spray in the yard will help too.

10% of the fleas are on the dog 90% in the house. They could have sprung in to your backyard quite easily.

Hi all,

I'm just wanting to get some feedback about an issue with our 1 1/2 year old dog Mia and hopefully find out the best way to train her to overcome it. Basically we'd like her to get to the point where she can be off lead out of the yard without running away. Apologies in advance for the length of this post. I tend to ramble in order to get a point across :D

First off, before I say anything else, I'd like to clarify that when she is being taken for walks, she is always on a lead. We never take her for walks in neighborhoods or in streets unless she is on a lead. The only time we allow her to roam a bit off lead is when she is on designated "dogs allowed" areas of the beach. I'm not wanting to take this dog for walks down the street off lead. I'd never do that. A lot of idiots in my neighborhood do that and one of these days they will no doubt lose their dog to a passing car.

When entering or leaving the house, you always have to tell her to stay and make her stand back a bit before you enter or leave (we usually keep the front door open with the screen door closed). When visitors come over you always have to tell Mia to step back a bit while the person is entering so there's no chance for her to get thruogh the door. When she can get out the front door, she immediately wants to bolt off and go exploring, and it's a major pain to get her back. She keeps running, stopping, sniffing, running some more etc. Eventually she'll come back to me after following her a bit. Or if I get the car and drive over to where she is and open the door, she will usually run and jump in the car with no drama. If I want to take her for a ride in the car (no garage, car is parked outside), I always have to put the lead on her and walk her to the car. It's not the end of the world I know, but it's an annoyance to have to do this, especially if she won't be getting out of the car at the destination (therefore not leading the lead except to get to the car from the house and then from the car back to the house once I return). She knows what "wanna go for a ride?" means (she loves car rides), but if I open the door and let her out without a lead and walk to the car, she will jog straight past the car and go down the street and tune out what I'm saying to her.

At home inside or out in the backyard she is an extremely obedient dog. She has done well in obedience classes (then again that was 99% lead work). On the beach even when she is running around a fair distance from me, she will come back to me when I call her (and I reward her with a treat to reinforce the recall). Obviously in our neighborhood there is more danger so I don't want to give her the luxury of being allowed to be more than a couple of meters from me at all times if she doesn't have a lead on.

She gets plenty of walks, lots of exercise so I don't think it's boredom. Once in a blue moon she might dig in the yard but it's very rare, and she hasn't ever tried to escape the backyard or jump the fence in order to explore the neighborhood. I just worry that in the event someone mistakenly forgets to close the side gate properly without us knowing, that she'll start wandering and (assuming we see her when she's leaving the yard) we'll have a hard time getting her to come back.

All in all she is a wonderful dog. She's extremely smart, very friendly, wonderful personality, and loves people to death. This issue is really the only ongoing problem we've had with her. She's eager to learn and really likes the attention she's gets when you try and teach her things. I guess I'm trying to figure out the best way to go about breaking her of this behaviour. I feel like if I knew of the proper way to go about teaching her, she would be receptive to it, since she's been very easy to train in every other respect.

I'd appreciate some feedback. Thanks

O.K! So heres a few points to follow to have a reliable off-leash dog in any location.

1. If she will come back to you at the beach then you are obviously doing the right sort of recall training. The problem is you have only "proofed" (practiced and succeeded) the behaviour in 1 or 2 locations. For every behaviour you desire you must practice it in a multitude of locations with a whole bunch of different distractions. Start practicing your recall in new locations. Start out the front of your house. Have her on a lead (a really long one if available) let it extend then call her to you.

2. New #1 Rule: Before Mia is allowed to go for a walk or go to the dog beach she must first come to you. This can seem a bit silly but its gold. Before opening the door for your walk call her away from the door have her sit then go and open it. Do the same outside, let her extend to the end of the lead, call her back to you then proceed your walk. Do this every 20 metres on your walk. This reinforces that the only way to go exploring around your house is to come to you first. (you can also add this exercise to every activity, like before dinner, before sniffing a tree, before meeting a dog). It teaches the dog that to get to great things in front of them they must come to you first! At first they won't get it, they will stare at you blankly as it's a very new concept to a dog. Be very patient and magic will happen.

3. Start taking her to the off-leash areas more often (at least 3-4 times per week). This will empty her off-leash exploring bucket and she will be much less likely to go and empty it herself (by running out the front). I'm not sure how often you walk her but if it's less than once a day I would increase the walks as well.

4. When she does come to you have her sit, grab her collar THEN dispense a treat. This will stop her ducking and weaving and is a great safety behaviour to install incase you do have to grab her suddenly.

5. When doing recall exercises its important to understand that on the dog's terms its an expensive behaviour (it's a big ask). So we must reward accordingly. Especially in the beginning of your training, find the best treat in the world to Mia. Give a handful of it for recalls (I know this seems crazy but it works). Slowly reduce the amount of treats as you can't keep giving handfuls for more than a couple of weeks. Keep the amount of treats at a level much higher than for other less expensive behaviours, such as, sitting. Until you have a super strong recall I would always give a treat, and especially always if you end the play session for the day (to make up for the punishment)

6. Never punish Mia for coming to you (this includes unintentional punishment: ending a play session, going inside, scolding her for running away in the first place)

7. Install a new sound to recalls, something that surprises her and intrigues her. Give a huge handful of tasty treats when you do this special sound. Weird squealy noises, rolls your lips like a motor car etc. Whatever you like. You will feel funny at first but after 1-2 times of such a huge reward for this noise she will come running. You can practice in the house. Always follow this noise with a huge amount of treats. You can add a command after the noise once she comes running every single time with no hesitation.

I hope this helps you a lot and if you need any more help you can PM me no problems. :D

Goodluck!!!!!

NOT doing something is not a behaviour. What do you want he to do instead? Reward that to buggery. My 3 year old dog has been so heavily rewarded for checking in and hanging about that every couple of minutes when he's off leash he tends to swan back to us and fall in at someone's thigh hoping they will notice how good he's being and give him a treat. These skills can be taught, but to be really effective they have to be maintained. We carry treats all the time so we can maintain the behaviour we like. That includes awesome recall treats. Some days I have to get OH to take the dogs or the recall treats because it's the only way to get the dogs far enough away to practise a recall.

Yes good point Corvus! Rewarding just hanging around you is def going to help. My dog also "checks in" with me very frequently when off lead

I was just wondering which dog beaches in NSW do not have rough surf. I've been to a couple with my boy but they've all had quite rough surf breaking right on the shore and he can't get past it. I'm looking for a dog friendly beach somewhere between the Central Coast and Wollongong, not really fussed about the driving as we generally make a day of it.

What ones do dolers recommend?

I know my friend likes Coledale beach with her dog

So reading the Humanising dog thread... some people mention they won't give their dog human name. What's so bad/wrong with it?

My 2 have human names and I also gave them surnames too (but that was just for kicks and giggles and personal amusement).

Reason why I give my 2 human names is because... well, it suits them.

Emmy was named before I got her. Charlie was the first thought when I laid eyes on him.

I think it's just cute. Human names for dogs are extra cute because they are silly. My first dog's name was Ben. I know a dog called Simon and that is just extra cute

We own a cabin, down at Durras (near Batemans bay, NSW) where we "can" take the dogs. Problem is that the only place the dogs are allowed to walk is on the rd, inside the caravan park. Not allowed anywhere near the bay/beach/forest tracks or even the grass verges outside the caravan park, which would mean that they would have to be left inside the cabin for a vast amount of time, hence we put them in kennels instead of taking them with us. Atleast the get plenty of free running at their kennels and spoilt by staff.

Does anyone have any suggestions on where we can all holiday? Absolutly ANYWHERE in NSW, or surrounding states for future reference, tend to go "walk about", just jump in the car and see where we end up, ie lost in a good way .

~Needs to have enough room for 2Adults, 4Kids, and atleast 2 med/large dogs.

~The quieter, the better. Bonnie has mild barrier aggression with a select few dogs, just involves barking, but no one wants to hear a dog barking on holiday. So the less dogs, the better. We dont care how remote it is, we are there to enjoy being away from the city, not to socialise lol.

~ Would pref a dog friendly beach (even with time restrictions) near by where the kids can swim, again as empty as possible. Or walking trails where the dogs can run offleash safetly.

Any suggestions guys?

OH desperatly wants to take the dogs on holidays with us but it just not fair to take them to Durras only to have them locked up all the time and not allowed to play/exercise.

Come to Jervis Bay! It's just beautiful and there are good spots for the dogs. At Vincentia try Nelsons Beach and Orion Beach. If you stay at Huskisson there is a Dog Friendly Beach (with time restrictions) and everything is within walking distance from the beach. I think one of the caravan parks in front of the beach is dog friendly (its really nice) and there are also heaps of dog friendly holiday houses available if you google or look on stayz.com. All the cafes in Huskisson welcome dogs outside and have outside seating. I think Callalla Beach is dog friendly too on the other side of Jervis Bay. Jervis Bay is basically Durras on steroids, still very quiet but more going on and more dog-friendly places.

shoalhaven heads also has a dog friendly beach and is really lovely and quiet. If you walk far enough up the really long beach (7 mile beach) there will be no one there so your dogs can play freely.

Dog Grooming and Obedience Training

Huskisson, NSW

http://www.clipandcoach.com.au