JLPandFriends

Thanks everyone for taking the time to give me your input and advice. Very much appreciated. =)

I've had a look at the k9pro site and decided to give them a call so hopefully I can book some time with them soon to get the ball rolling.

JLP:

I've been trying to take a Cesar Millan approach.

This behaviour has nothing to do with dominance. Indeed, the least socially confident dog here is the resource guarder.

That's very interesting!

Why is it do you think that he feels the need to guard things? (not just food, he guards everything)

I figured that the act of actually taking something over to one of the cats, laying it in front of them and then guarding it from them was a display of dominance. Why do you think he might be doing that? It seems like an odd thing for him to do if he's the least confident.

Yes I'd love some information on local trainers. They don't even need to be local, we can travel within an hour or 2 every couple of weeks. I live in the Blue Mountains, Hazelbrook NSW.

Thanks a lot for the advice. =)

The very BEST is literally a stone's throw from you. Virtually you would need to swing a LEFT turn at Springwood and drive down to the Hakwesbury.

Perse mentioned them in her reply.

http://k9pro.com.au/services/

Read over the site. To cover yourself, consider a Vet check too for the boy.

Thanks for that! Almost everyone has recommended K9pro so looks like that might be the go. =)

Given what you went on to describe, I would stop the Cesar Milan approach yesterday. It's not exactly what the dog needs.

I would consider a trained to do one on one with you. This will give you the confidence and will be a postive for the dog to stop his confusions.

He is so lucky to have you trying to look after him well.

:)

Thank you. Yes the Cesar Millan approach doesn't seem to be working which is why I am posting for help here. =)

I hoped to be able to help him myself, but it seems like professional help might be my only real solution.

Ok -

What training /exercise does your dog do each day ? Does he go to teh beach, parks, shops? Does he know any tricks? :) Does he spend a lot of time at home alone- ?

Have you had his eyesight and hearing tested at all?

he seems to have a few problems , you have mentioned he startles, is timid ..and does odd things - poor lad -

I really think you are correct , and the problems in your household are not anything you, and "the internet" can comfortably fix.

It's good that you are doing research , and now, with what you know , you will better understand why you need personal help from a professional :)

I am not in a position to recommend anyone other than the team at K9 pro - they are fantastic with all things dog - and especially these sorts of happenings.

if you CLICK here you will get to info on Steve and the services provided .

It would also be a BIG advantage if you can get your dog checked out by a VETERINARY BEHAVIOURIST , as the signs he is showing may actually be coming from a disorder in his brain , or an illness ....

For recommendations of REPUTABLE and very experienced professionals - just ask on here - this is not a simple "training" issue - as you have found out ...

He has basic training, he sits, stays, lays down, he wont eat unless i tell him to even if i put the food right on his nose. He goes for a 40min walk every day and is never home alone. I have never had cause to have his sight and hearing tested but my vet has never mentioned anything when we've taken him for checkups. I have wondered if he has ADD thought because he can't stay focused for more than a few seconds most of the times.

Thank you for the info, will definitely have a look at those links. =)

A puppy that has been through four homes (including yours) at 7 months has had a tough and unsettled start to life. Whatever good intentions anyone had he didn't have a stable environment with consistency during important socialisation and development stages. He may well not have been "mistreated" per se but that unsettled life during those critical phases is plenty for him to develop issues. Having said that, he could certainly have actually been mistreated enough to cause serious issues in a 7 month period. He also will have been born with certain inherent temperament characteristics so could have had issues even in the most stable of environments from day 1.

He sounds horribly conflicted to me, like he maybe wants to be friends and "pack mates" with the cats but has this instinct to resource guard from them and has had all sorts of differing consequences to his behaviours so has no idea where he stands. I hate to say it but I suspect your Cesar Millan approach of trying to force him into submission to the cats have probably confused him more and made things worse

Dealing with resource guarding from other animals is very difficult. You cannot force them into a hierarchy amongst themselves. Your approach has to be to teach all the animals that resources are yours to control and you will calmly and consistently manage them amongst the animals so there is no need for any of them to guard anything. I would be very wary of using any sort of physical punishment, or even yelling, with a dog like this, there are ways to deal with resource guarding that are based on creating positive associations and using consistency and positive methods to change his mindset.

You really have a complex situation going on here now and you are going to need professional help to sort it out. If you tell us where you are located hopefully someone can recommend a good trainer who can help you. Good on you for trying to do the best for your little guy :)

ETA - if you don't get on top of this and he continues to be confused and conflicted it is highly likely to escalate into resource guarding from humans (you!) so you are definitely doing the right thing asking for help now!

Ah yes that makes sense. I've been treating it as just a simple matter of training him but maybe in this particular case I need to seek professional help.

Poor guy. He's always happy and loves nothing more than to be next to us and even loves the cats, but when he decides he wants to guard something its almost like he's a different dog.

Yes I'd love some information on local trainers. They don't even need to be local, we can travel within an hour or 2 every couple of weeks. I live in the Blue Mountains, Hazelbrook NSW.

Thanks a lot for the advice. =)

Your dog sounds like quite a character.

There's a really good book by Jean Donaldson titled Mine on resource guarding. I found it useful. I bought it online.

Good luck with it.

Thanks, he definitely is a character. I'll have to see if I can download the book, thanks for the info. =)

Hiyas,

I have an desexed english cocker spaniel male, 2yrs old who has possession aggression but only towards other animals. I adopted him when he was 7 months.

I've read a lot of articles and blogs about this but because my situation is a little bit unique I haven't been able to find any information regarding how to deal with this issue.

Not only is my dog possessive (growls, snarls and barks at the cats if they even attempt to walk by when he's playing or chewing on something), if he finds something that grabs his attention, even if its a 2cm piece if string on the floor, as soon as one of the cats walks by he turns around and sits and start guarding it. It's not just food, its anything he finds. Sometimes it doesn't even have to be something that he's particularly interested in. If he sees the cats are suddenly interested in something, he'll go over to investigate, and then he'll sit next to it and guard it and growl and the cats.

The thing he does that makes this case of possession a little unique (I assume since I can't find info on this particular behaviour) is that he will often pick something up and then take it over to one of the cats, sit it down in front of them and then sit and guard it as though he's saying "come on, try to take this, I dare you". The cats have never tried to take anything from him before, the most they'll do is smell whatever it is he's got and then walk away so I'm not sure why he does this. Obviously I don't actually know what he's thinking but I've observed his behaviour long enough to get an idea of what he's doing. Just to give you as clear a picture as I can, this is a step by step example of what he does. Lets say he finds a leaf in the house. He'll give it a sniff, pick it up, walk around looking for one of the cats, when he finds one he'll walk over to him/her, drop it infront of them then sit down and guard it. As soon as the cat tries to move, whether its to investigate or just move away cause he's making them uncomfortable, he starts to growl at them. Usually he'll sit there for quite a while, even if no one else is interested. Unless he hears a cat playing, he'll leave what he was guarding to investigate and if the cats playing with an object, he'll sit infront of it and stop the cat from playing with it. It seems like this is his way of asserting his dominance, but this is not what I want. I need him to be submissive towards the other furbies.

I've been trying to "retrain" him by reaffirming his place at the bottom of the hierarchy. I've been doing this by getting him to lay in a submissive position while I feed the cats infront of him (I fed them separately before I started doing this). Then once they're done I praise him and take him out to feed him as well. I seemed to be making some progress but the problem is that he doesn't just do this with food, he does it with everything. And the thing that's making it even more difficult is that he actually creates situations where he becomes possessive by finding something and then taking it over to a cat to "taunt" him/her with. I almost forgot to mention that when I don't allow him to eat before the cats or if i take something away that he's guarding and give it to the cats (trying to teach him that he has to share), he starts to shake uncontrollably and doesn't stop until the cats go away.

He is fine with the cats, in fact he has a special bond with 1 of the cats in particular, but when he decides he wants to claim something, its a different story.

I'm hoping someone can help with my dilema because I don't know how to change his behaviour. Am I thinking along the right lines with the way I'm trying to retrain him, am I totally off and possibly making it worse? I have no idea.

I've been trying to take a Cesar Millan approach.

A bit of background on him, I adopted him when he was 7 months, he's now about 2yrs old. He had 3 previous owners in his 7 months before he came to me and he was very timid. For example he hid under the car the entire time we were talking to his previous owner who we adopted him from. We met at a central location as we lived a fair way away from each other. He hid from anyone he was unfamiliar with, and still does that today though he's not as bad as he was when we were with him at the park that day. When we brought him home the first thing we did was let him out onto the property to explore his new home. When he walked past the jasmine on the fence he brushed up against it, yelped and leaped away from it. Anything that touched him that he didn't have forewarning of made him yelp whether it was brushing up against something, bumping into something, even the slightest touch of a tissue falling on him would startle him. He still does it today but its not as bad as it used to be.

Sometimes even just yelling at him for doing something he's not supposed to like stealing a sock or jumping up on the couch or sneaking into the kitchen makes him yelp.

He seemed to be a well looked after pup when we got him, and as I said he was only 7 months when we adopted him so It's hard to imagine that in such a short time he could have been mistreated to the point where he's high strung and possessive. He's not an aggressive dog, but when he's guarding something he starts to display aggressive behaviour. Luckily he doesn't show possessive aggression towards us, just to the other animals, but I'm worried that he'll eventually hurt and possibly even kill one of them.

Any help/advice you can give would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

Annette

Actually if you want a show puppy a more sensible question would be how successful have previous pups from this dog and bitch been (not necessarily to each other)

Thats where this becomes confusing because that exact question was in my original list! Seems what one question someone finds acceptable another person won't. One thing I've learnt is even if the breeder says 'send me your list of questions' as this one did, I should probably say I'd prefer to talk to you about them when you have time!

I don't think anyone would have expected to be hit with a million and one questions though. I'm sure if she knew how many there were, she probably would have said no. =P

Also things can be taken out of context when communicating through text. You don't get any of the physical or vocal queues which can and do totally change the way people perceive things that are said. You could type something out and people will take it 1 way, then say it to them in person and they'll get a totally different understanding of what you're trying to communicate. But i think its important to remember that although some of the questions seem to exist to weed out the puppy farmers, that a lot of the breeders you contact will be genuine breeders who are proud of their accomplishments and so its normal for them to feel insulted by a question that indirectly insinuates the possibility they are something which they themselves despise as much if not more than you do. It's all about how things are worded.

Just as it does not make sense for me to select homes based on an arbitrary number of how many hours they work each week. Hours worked per week tells me nothing about an owner's actuality of being a good dog owner.

That is a good point. Maybe they take their dogs to work, or maybe they come home for lunch, or maybe they own their own business and so can come and go as they please or maybe there are others at home while they are at work. Not all breeders who have many dogs are puppy mill breeders just as not all breeders who only have a couple of dogs are genuine registered breeders who breed for the betterment of the breed. I'm sure there are many registered breeders out there with only a few dogs that breed for profit but don't feel they can handle more than a few dogs. Of course it is everyone's choice what they choose to do or choose not to do but at the same time things should be taken into perspective, questions asked and research done before passing judgement. Imo anyway.

Thanks everyone, I've gone through the questions and chopped a lot out. Assuming I'm chatting with a breeder do you think these questions are ok? I obviously wouldnt be reading them out like a robot but chatting about them. Does anyone ask anything of a potential breeder not here that I should be asking?

I'm paranoid about buying from someone who has litters for the purpose of sale only. I really want to buy from someone who health checks (where necessary) and cares how their puppies are raised. The breeder is welcome to find out from me everything I can offer a puppy too!

Are you a member of any Clubs?

What do you like about the **?

Have the parents had any health checks/scoring?

What is the temperament of the parents?

Have the parents been shown?

Have the parents had a litter together before?

How are the puppies raised? (Outside, inside, combination?)

Will they have seen other animals, eg cats, chooks etc

What age is the puppy released to its new owner?

How much is the puppy? Is a deposit required?

What documents come with the puppy?

Registration (main / limited)?

Vaccination?

Microchip?

Pedigree?

Is there a vet check of the puppy before release?

If kept crated/penned is there a separate area for toileting, ie do they go on grass / paper?

Are they currently playing with kongs or chew toys?

Thanks :D

The following to me would be a better list of questions. Just my opinion.

Are you a member of any Clubs?

Q1) Are you a registered club member and a regular exhibitor of the breed? (this will answer several questions from club registered to breeding quality to whether they show or not)

What do you like about the **? (I don't think this question is necessary. You will probably find that the things the breeder likes about the breed is the same thing you've probably found through your research that most people like about it)

Have the parents had any health checks/scoring?

What is the temperament of the parents?

Q2) What is the health and temperament of the parents like? Is this their first litter?

Have the parents been shown? (This to me suggests that you're after a pick of the litter pup. If that is what you want then you should just be clear with the breeder and say that's what you want. You should also be prepared to pay sometimes double and sometimes more than what you thought you would be paying. From what i understand, it is never guaranteed that you will get a beautiful show quality pup in a litter just because the parents were. So it is better to tell the breeder that you want a show quality pup or you want a pick of the litter rather than ask if the parents are show quality. If they are registered and regular exhibitors then they only breed from quality stock. The first question will answer this for you.)

Have the parents had a litter together before?

How are the puppies raised? (Outside, inside, combination?)

Will they have seen other animals, eg cats, chooks etc

What age is the puppy released to its new owner?

Q3) Will the pups get to socialise with children and perhaps other animals while they are still with their mum?

How much is the puppy? Is a deposit required?

Q4) When would i be able to take the pup home if you decided that we'd make a good match?

What documents come with the puppy?

Registration (main / limited)?

Vaccination?

Microchip?

Pedigree?

I would offer an apology for all the questions and that the following is the last.

5) Do your pups come with the usual health checks and papers, limited or main registration and are pedigree's available for pets?

Then i would say something like...

"Sorry again for all the questions. This is a big commitment and i just want to make sure that i have all the info needed before committing.

Thank you so much for taking the time to read and answer a few questions, i hope i haven't gone overboard with them and i look forward to hearing from you soon. =)"

I like the idea of writing such an ordinance with lots of loopholes . . . so it becomes strong persuasion to keep your dog fenced, but doesn't result in automatic neutering of quality / trained / working dogs who accidentally escape.

what about the entire dogs who escape because of accidents like a fence down because a tree fell on it, or a tradie who was careless with a gate/s etc? Why should those owners be penalised? Not all people who keep their pets entire are irresponsible, nor would all entire pets be in the above catergories.

Why should a tradie not be held accountable for something that is a result of his/her carelessness? Being careless is irresponsible isn't it? Just my 2 cents. =)

Oops, somehow the thread posted before i even wrote the first word. >.<

I noticed that the TM's in China have much bigger manes than the ones in Australia. Why is that? Is there a difference in the genetics of the Australian TM's? Or have the Chinese bred the TM have much bigger manes than the original TM?

I really love the huge manes. =)

Do you mean the natural corded / dread lock mane

or the bouffant hairdryer and hairspray coif?

I don't know if it's just poufier, it looks a fair bit longer as well. But the ones in this youtube vid are good examples.

http://www.youtube.c...feature=related

Don't tell me they put hairspray and stuff in their hair? >.<

Oops, somehow the thread posted before i even wrote the first word. >.<

I noticed that the TM's in China have much bigger manes than the ones in Australia. Why is that? Is there a difference in the genetics of the Australian TM's? Or have the Chinese bred the TM have much bigger manes than the original TM?

I really love the huge manes. =)

I second Leerburg, plenty of free ebooks and videos. http://leerburg.com/...iningebooks.htm

The Michael Ellis DVDs are excellent if you want to learn about training your dog with verbal markers too.

Thank you. =)

..and if you only have your puppy indoors, locked away to sleep .. she will not easily learn how to behave calmly and carefully inside/around humans/food/pets .

Definitely head to the puppy forum!

Already there looking through the threads. =)

The puppy wont only be indoors to sleep, it will be free to come inside and go outside as it pleases but i don't want it to sleep outside. I mean if it really wants to then i suppose it would be ok.

www.leerburg.com has some great articles on there about puppies and training especially for working breeds

Thanks for that. =)

Welcome!! you have recieved some great advice so far! One thing I would mention about you wanting your dog to be a guardian when at home. There should really be no need to actually 'train' your dog for this. Instead train your dog to be well socialised in ALL situations INCLUDING in your home. Once your dog is mature, it will be able to discriminate between friend and foe (and will do this a lot better if it knows who is welcome and who is not) even if they don't seem like they will. And it will be a good thing if it never has to be tested. 99.9% of the time just the presence of the dog - no matter how it acts - will be all you need and in these days of dengerous dog legislation it is important to do everything possible not to put your dog at risk. Have fun with your puppy!! I have friends who breed Bullmastiffs and I love hanging out with their beautiful big well mannered and well socialised Booeys :D

Thank you! When i said i wanted it to be a guardian, i didn't mean i wanted to train it to be aggressive or anything like that, what i meant was that i didn't want the training and socialising to take away its natural instinct to protect itself, us and the property. There will be nights when i will be home along and it gets pretty pitch black and scary in the mountains, so i want to feel secure knowing that she will be alert and warn any would be intruders off. I don't want an aggressive dog, just one whose glare is intimidating and bark is worse than its bite. =)

Introducing Edwina aka Chindara Courtney Act. Edwina flew in this morning and I am smitten!!

What kind of dog is that? It reminds me of a gremlin (except an incredibly cute one) but super furry! =O

Thanks for the info. =)

Hello,

I will be bringing home my bullmastiff puppy in about a months time when she will be 8 weeks old and would like to get some advice on training hert to be an indoor pet.

She will be let out to run around the yard all the time, but i want to keep her inside at night so i have to "potty train" her.

I would also like to train her to like other animals and people as i have pet rabbits.

I'd prefer to do it without a clicker because i would like for her to simply hear my voice, understand and "heed my command" as they say.

Although i want her to be well socialised so that i can safely take her on walks and out in public without fear of her attacking anyone that approaches, i also want her to be protective of our property. So friendly and calm when out, but a protective guardian when at home.

Any advice would be very much appreciated!