amp

If councils & pounds know PR only broker/facilitate these dogs why not refuse to work with them?

Surely councils have a duty of care to ensure these animals are going to rescues with fosters, back up care etc etc.

I asked PR 3 questions over a 4 week period, when I first started to follow rescues on f/b:

Will I get a tax receipt. Can I donate to a vet account. Why don't you do the rescue yourselves.

I got no answer, comments were deleted & I was blocked. I did get an email/pm saying I was abusive & detracting from saving the dogs on the KILL list.

I was never abusive I simply wanted to learn how it went.

They do not rescue with fosters themselves. They seem to just get them out free, kennel them, advertise them on gumtree or now on the STAR page.

With 22k likers @ $1 a week they should be able to run efficiently, instead they have not paid rent....see latest posting on the Beware page.

I have seen comments about unpaid vet bills.

I see an invoice made out to MN/PR for medications & shock collars that apparently were accessible to people at the sanctuary.

I have seen comments where the dog has been rehomed with problems then someone else has to take care of the mess.

Surely all this & more give rescues, the ones that actually do the work, a bad name. Some I know will not foster anymore. It is such a shame that a persons ego, if that is what it all is about, set rescue back & undermine confidence in the industry.

I do not understand why people wanting to adopt are not going directly to the pound, or, wanting to foster go & find a local rescue to support. PR state that are broker/facilitator & not the rescue thus removing themselves from responsibility.

I have seen people donate up to $200...this is so wrong but they continue doing it in their droves!

Now with the Sanctuary Tails Animal Rescue set up they just remove them from the pound to more kennels.

I know of one dog that, apart from a small stint in a home in Vic, has been kenelled since about May/June. Nothing mentioned re history just up for sale.

If anyone asks questions on either page that do not relate to "saving" from the "KILL" list they are banned & threatened.

Why oh why are so many people conned from their money.

Oh! & now she is to become a lawyer. Give me strength!

oops

Here is a good one:

Sanctuary Tails is another arm of Pound Rounds whereby they get the dogs out then kennel them for goodness knows how long!

Riley went to Vic about June last year - not sure how long he was in the pound for before that....within a few weeks he had broken out of the yard as the gate was being closed. Attacked a little dog that was being walked nearby, nipped the new owners child. MN eventually arrived, using a false name to take Riley away to a local kennel, where he stayed for a month or so until the owner there threatened to put him in a pound due to his chewing/escaping antics. Now he is back in NSW at STAR awaiting adoption.

As usual no disclosure & the poor thing has been kenneled for months!

MN quote found on f/b

"So although I agree with helping to control the industry - making it personal and doing it for no other reason than they don't operate to your philosophy is a little different - let me give you some examples - and these accusations I have heard ALL in the last 4 weeks:

JRT rescue > breeding dogs taken from pounds

BDR > stole money and profits from rehoming

ARQ > only takes small fluffies to sell to live off proceeds

SOS > only takes small fluffies to sell to live off proceeds - also has dog that has killed 4 others still living at kennels - keeps dogs for years - animal hoarder - and abuse

NSWAR >backyard breeder of small fluffies 'rescued' from pounds then bred

SR > still making all the money rescuing no dogs and not taking back their own dogs rehomed

HH > breeding

NMR > Animal abuse

SHR > dogs killed by negligence

HPH > dead dogs and cats bodies last time they moved, hoarding animal abuse

RCR > hoarding, dogs killed, undesexed rehoming

GR > hoarding, animal abuse

P&H > not supporting fosters expecting them to pay for basic vetwork & essential care, only taking saleable rescues

J&J > hoarding, dog fights

APC > all of the above

FFB > parts of all of the above

FFR > dogs back in the pound, killed.

PR > everything above multiplied by infinity and then by 10 just to be sure you know just how bad they are.

SSR > being total bitches & feeding the gossip & hate

and the classic "undesexed rehoming" and "only taking saleable rescues"- which every single rescue (except Greyhound Rescue) has been accused of. I am not joking - this is exactly what I have heard in 4 weeks.

Have I missed anyone? "

With 19000+ likers, donating $1 a day or week as they ask they must be rolling in the $$$ & should therefore be able to save every dog.

I just wish they would rescue under their own name with their own fosters etc & take on the responsibility.

They will set rescue back with their poor practices.

The CPDNH page has posted recommendations for people to rescue with groups other than those approved by council which seems silly since those other rescues would have to purchase the animal & not rescue it.

They have a number of aliases which try to stir on other pages...all a bit dramatic.

Some of them commented on PR Beware page & would just not have it that their own admins used PR people in setting up so therefore had no one to blame but themselves. They went on to say 2 dogs were killed because rescue would not take them due to PR association & tried to blame PR Beware for it.

It surprised me that the admins said they did not know MN et al, yet used them for setting up the pages & are f/b friends.

All this garbage reflects badly on those who are really trying to help c'town Pound who have lots of issues without this.

Poundcc group work with Campbelltown Council to bring in changes at the pound. They do not seem to involve themselves with specific rescues.

Melanie Norman was asked by one of her mates to set up a page for Campbelltown Pound. called it Campbelltown Pound Must Change Now, Working Group. She made it a secret group. Suddenly it was filled with PR people. Those of us who did not like that were soon booted out.

She then helped start up C'town Pound Dogs Needing Help but as the admins of that page started to learn people would not work with them because of the PR affiliation they supposedly got rid of PR people.

One of the first animals CPDNH saved: On the secret group CH started, virtually, demanding people donate to fly this dog to Vic. $300 for air fare, Big vet bills as it was very ill, desexing, long term rehab, long term foster as it was too old to be adopted. The dog was purchased from the pound for approx $80, was already desexed, was only 5. Transport met the purchased at the pound & it went straight to the airport....no vet check, no quarantine! Within a couple of hours of it arriving in Vic the rescue org had it for sale on Petrescue saying it was only a bit thin.

When some people asked, on the secret page, why not wait til it had been vet checked to see what money was required, before asking for donations...the comments were met with hostile abuse,

When some asked why post a donation request on a secret page, because you could not share from there & thaat it should be on the CPDNH, public page...they were also met with hostile abuse.

IMO the working group should have been just that...support for the poundies, gathering donations to take in to them, beds, jackets etc etc..but NO the PR people just took it over.

The pics and notes on DOL are designed for experienced rescuers as a guide only. The dogs then go into care and are assesed, vetted rehomed responsibly.

Seems like an appropriate time to ask as any. Why are the pics and notes being posted in a public place? If there is a finite number of ethical rescue orgs, why not set up a private mailing list for them, for them to distribute to their own staff or carers as they see fit? Wouldn't this make it harder for PR to advertise dogs that are still in the pound if they had no access to this resource?

Dodgy rescue is everywhere, even here.

Embarrassed to say but if not for facebook I would have been in the dark regarding rescue orgs. With my love of silkies & looking for pages on them I discovered SSR which led to a few others & now I try to help donating when I can, knitting, sewing etc & sharing the pages so my family, especially grandson, learns how to help. He looks at the pages with me & I tell him what is happening with the needy animals. In that respect being public can be a good thing...just not the way PR go about it.

How can they be held responsible when they only pass info on?

They get a foster for a dog, find a rescue to take it on & openly state that the rescue then takes all responsibility. Leaves them in the clear, unfortunately.

A friend of a friend just fostered via them, no house/yard check, no assessment with her little kiddies, dog & cat. They did not check her out nor did the rescue group.

The hate pages & the pretend people they put up on f/b is so transparent. I know a few people who have asked pertinent questions & they have been blocked with comments deleted.

A recent comment I saw them post was Blacktown had not killed a dog in months...next comment KILL LIST, these dogs will die today, donate to save!!!!!!

I wonder what everyones reaction to PR would have been had it been a child attacked & killed instead of a small dog.

I see my grandson every time I think about this ladys story.

They must be made to be transparent & upfront.

If they arrange adoption/foster up to the minute a dog is due for PTS when is it temperament tested.

Everything that you know about a dog should be disclosed, good and bad.

If you have a dog that has killed another or seriuosly injured another dog or is in a high risk of doing so, you should go straight to the vet and have it put to sleep or you ar risking other people and their animals.

Far too many nice natured animals out there, dying every day.

It is completely irresponsible to rehome such a dog and should it attack/kill another dog in the future, what these people don't realise is that they could be sued.

If it hurt one of my dogs, I'd be taking someone to court, most definitely and they wouldn't have a leg to stand on if they already knew the dog was a killer.

You don't know the circumstances. I don't either. Why did it maul another dog.? If it was in foster care how did this happen? Its not the dogs fault, most of the time.

I own an AST,30kg. also a tiny bitsa JR etc. <2kg. I would never leave them alone together.

Even though they love each other. Even play is closely supervised.

Accidents can usually be both avoided and explained.

Btw. I agree with your opening statement. Full disclosure is best for all concerned. But dogs shouldn't be condemned to death. Most of the time.

I do know the circumstances actually and it was not an accident. I have had dogs of different sizes as well and what you have said is correct, supervision is required.

What is also required is VERY careful assessment of dogs going into foster care situation - no matter how kind the person is who is offering to help your group, if they have a situation that is high risk (ie putting a larger dog with a tiny dog), you have to go to the nth degree to test the dog you are placing but also make the foster carer VERY aware of what they need to do - ie never leave them alone together, supervise them etc. You need to do a homecheck and go through everything with them very carefully.

When I'm talking about full disclosure, as a rescuer there is no way I would place a dog that has killed another dog and I don't care what breed that may be. It could be a Jack Russell, even small dogs kill other dogs or seriously injure them.

My full disclosure is usually about whether they are storm phobic, have on lead aggression, bark at birds etc etc. I simply don't place aggressive dogs, full stop.

I am not knowledgeable on rescue so I see myself as the average person trying to learn - PR are NOT a rescue group but a middle man who pass adoption/foster forms onto the pound or a rescue group. Then when the wrong match up, with no temp testing is made, if there is a problem it becomes the problem for the rescue group not them - they end up with none of the hassles. Does not seem right to me. Also since the rescue group attached to the animal are usually the ones that cop the costs, why do they want money for vet/transport etc - they don't appear to pass any funds on.

I just want to learn the ethical way things should be done.

I have seen groups torn to shreds over situations that were caused by incidents beyond their control.

Yup, but the issue here is that some checking prior and after placing animals from this rescue group would have possibly prevented many of these issues. The attempted cover up of many of these issues just makes it worse

Groups need to remove certain posts or they would no longer exist, that is why a phone number and email is always a good idea. Why do people feel they need personal questions publicly answered? Its obviously the new trend. Once the facts have been substantiated then take a course of action, if it is indeed detrimental to the public or rescue as a whole. Why would someone sell themselves out on a facebook wall? I do understand what you are saying though. If the incident did occur and the group in question was entirely at fault, then I suppose a lot more respect is gained with a public statement inclusive of measures that will be implemented to ensure things don't happen again. Its hard to know unless all the facts are at hand.

I asked if my donation would be tax deductible - 3 times then I got blocked.....is it not a fair thing to ask & why can't I ask on their public fb page.

What are the current proven facts right now about the group in question, how have they been validated?

3 times I asked would my donation be tax deductible & they blocked me.

Each time anyone I know has asked a pertinent question it gets deleted & you get verbally attacked.

If you read the original post & scroll down a bit you will see the horror story of a foster carer.

I would imagine it has been deleted. I had a look and the first thing that came to mind was "defamation". The trouble with starting a page like that and having an open forum is you can't stop people writing inflammatory posts.

IMO if it saves one person from a repeat of this poor ladys loss then it has done the job.

the link isn't working, what has happened.

only closed for the night...back up now

found this https://www.facebook.com/pages/Pound-Rounds-Beware/261161593977040

Here they are again getting in $$$ https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002712561192&sk=wall

makes me so mad!

WOW, just do a fb search & there's quite a few, this one is purely fundraising for PR: https://www.facebook.com/groups/180224005426863/

Here they are again getting in $$$ https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002712561192&sk=wall

makes me so mad!

Anyone who donates to unknown people on a Facebook page, no matter how sad it may sound, needs their head read.

I agree to a degree, lol.

I have donated to SSR & RWL but I must say I followed & spoke to the lovely people there first. I totally support/supply AMRAA Auction Fundraising. I have offered to donate knitted doggie coats to others.

It has been uplifting to come across some wonderful people in the rescue pages I follow - I think rescue people most amazing & wish I was rich to give a whole lot more.

Getting back to PR - their ethics are just so very wrong. When I first came across them I was sorely tempted to send a donation, you really so think you are going to help the animal. Fortunately I scrolled through & saw the attitude of replies & backed away.

It is just so wrong & surely must give the wrong impression of rescues, once the person has realised they have been taken for a ride.

Someone at PR must be shitting themselves, all the please donate here posts have been removed from their facebook page.

I still see a few links and pictures about them

Oh crap my eyes are failing me, I swore I couldn't see any just before

I have been blocked from posting....geez just coz I asked :would I get a tax invoice if I donated.

I think the group need to get their story straight, on looking at their site it clearly states they have foster carers. One even stated a dog that went missing was microchipped to pound rounds. They really need to start figuring out what they are or are not, not just contradict themselves continuously.

They also state they put themselves between pounds and adoptions, but take no responsibility from that, but it is just to save people money.

This group of people are just beyond words, and preying on people who have good intentions and do not know what they are really contributing to is very sad.

Their financial claims of not covering a third of their costs seems a bit too much to believe as well.

When will it end

Yes but I think they see foster carers as different to the way they are seen traditionally. For most a foster carer is attached to a group and works under their policies ,covered by their insurances etc - but these guys sort of see them as private contractors .So they have them working for them [ voluntarily ] but they dont really work for them they work for them selves. [voluntarily] Its different but legal.

But if they are giving their 'foster carers' dogs that are microchipped in their name(they stated in one of their facts) they are their responsibility aren't they? Especially having a 16D, the information on the dog would need to be changed into another persons name, but until then they are legally responsible for the dog and what happens, isn't that law? The way they see it and what is actually representative of their responsibilities does not mean they skirt the law from my understanding.

Just on the issue of other people working with them, unfortunately they have attacked rescue groups, people, and people that actually work hard at being ethical and responsible in dog rescue. Why would anyone want to work with them? They are seen to have questionable practices, and from what I have seen, if you do fall out with them it is fairly vindictive, and childish that only allows people to be railroaded by them to do things their way. I have seen on facebook where someone was a 'foster carer' and that 'foster carer' believing they were working with that rescue group and tried contacting them, only for the rescue group to not know of the person or the dog in question. This is where it gets worse. How many dogs are out there with microchips in a rescues names that they do not know about? or is it only a one off incident?

I have searched 16d clause & they are NOT listed as having it. The only thing they claim to have is Charity Fundraising Number.

OK - if PR are using their 16D to get dogs out of pounds, aren't those animals chipped to them by said pounds? Then PR must report all animals released under that 16D to the DLG, right? And those reports must marry up to the reports from the pounds as to which animals were released under which 16D... yes?

Maybe if someone contacts the DLG about PR and convinces them that an audit is in order... ?

As for the fundraising and charity status thing, the ATO has quite strict reporting guidelines - especially if said charity is bringing in large sums of money. It ALL must be accounted for fully, and is also subject to arbitrary auditing. Maybe this group could be brought to their attention also...

The pounds aren't going to stop letting them get dogs out - it's more lucrative for any dog to leave their care rather than be euthed and then they incur disposal costs etc...

I hate Facebook with a passion - but anyone who knows how it works could always start up another group page maybe asking people to tell their PR horror stories - then spam the hell out of the PR pages with links to the horror story page... fight fire with fire I say! For sure the horror story page will soon fill up with stories from those left high and dry by PR, and you can then control what is posted there so the truth isn't deleted willy nilly... *grin*

T.

Please excuse my ignorance what is DLG?

I thought of starting a page but not sure how to do it without infringing...working on that lol

They said they have Charity Fundraising status but nothing from the ATO...yet - wonder how long that has been 'applied' for

Why don't they just post when the dog actually has rescue, the name of the group and how to donate directly to them? A far more honest and open way of operating.

because then they would not be able to prey on peoples emotions. Nothing is ever listed for after the fact. They probably don't even know what happens as they are only passing on the info.