frazz

I will reply in more depth tomorrow, and I'm sure others will too, but in brief - having trained my own dogs through puppy preschool to formal obedience, trained foster and shelter dogs and taught puppy classes - IMO there is no need to or benefit to using "no" or collar jerks to "show what you don't want" with young puppies, or any dog really.

There are heaps of things you can do with your puppy now to set up for a life long positive training relationship and none involve "dominating" or physical punishment.

As far as tools go, you can teach a dog to walk nicely using whatever tools suit you, it can be done on a flat collar but it can also be done on an appropriate harness. Ideally on either. I assume a "soft check" is a martingale or half check collar (part flat collar, part chain or fabric loop?), in my quite extensive experience these type of collars are great for stopping dogs that have a thick neck in comparison to the size of their head from slipping out of their collar if they are jumping around, but not of any other benefit in training, other than it's slightly easier to strangle the dog with than a flat (normal) collar, if that's something one wants to do...

Thank you. I appreciate your advice and look forward to any more you have to offer. The trainer took my puppy off me because he was moving around and making noises towards other dogs. She spoke harshly and pulled on his collar several times. He stopped dropped his head towards the floor and looked up at me with his eyes - sooo sad. He had no idea what he was being punished for. I thought about it later - neither did I - it wasn't as though he'd refused to follow an order and he was in a foreign environment with no precedent on how to behave. The more I think about it the more terrible I feel and hope I didn't start losing his trust because I let a stranger take him away and do that. If anyone should have been punished it should have been me for not telling him what to do (and I wasn't really sure myself) but if I'd been given a chance I would have called his name and told him to sit and I'm pretty sure that would have sorted the problem out.

I'm feeling pretty confused about training and issues of positive reinforcement versus dominance. Before getting a puppy I had read a lot about positive reinforcement and it was all I wanted to use to train, along with distraction/diversion if needed. I have read comments in facebook groups that the dominance theory of training a dog is out of date. Trainers at puppy preschool have been using "no" commands and tugging on collars (with or without lead on) to stop puppies doing what they don't want. That is not how I wanted to train my puppy - was I unrealistic, are they right about this? They also recommend using a soft-check collar and say you can't train a puppy, or control any dog walking them on a harness rather than a collar. I have an Amstaff X so I know I need to be in control when we get up to the point of walking in public but feel disappointed as I wanted to walk him in a harness. I feel like the neck area is too sensitive and easily injured for a dog to pull against, or for a human leading them to pull against or check against. I'd welcome some thoughts on this.

I didn't have an Amstaff, but a normal staffy. As a pup, he'd growl when we played - normal for staffies, they seem to be vocal players. If he got rough, growled, scratched I'd immediately stop, stand up and walk off. A few minutes later I'd ask him to play again. Repeat at first inappropriate act. They are very smart and quickly associate their actions with the play stopping. As they love playing with people I found mine kerbed his behaviour pretty quickly.

I would not be giving him a treat after inappropriate play. The consequence of going too far is no play. No rousing, no trouble, just no play.

I found my staffy learned really well at meal time. After sit, stay he was taught leave it, which meant he wasn't to touch whatever it was. That can be moved to play. If you want to pick up a toy to initiate play, you can direct the dog to leave it. His reward is a game. As mine got more obedient, mid game I'd ask him to drop and leave whatever we were playing with. The point of that was to train him to let go of something when he was in an excited state, which I think is important for dogs with a strong bite.

One of my guys favourite toys was a heavy tuggie rope. Excellent for tug, knots on ends for good grip, and he loved chewing on it by himself. Would take a year or two for him to destroy one. Excellent toys.

One of the best training things I ever learned is that "no" is not a command. How can you reward no? No what? No don't pant, no don't wag your tail etc. Substituting a command instead of no gives a much clearer direction. Leave it applies to food, to toys, but also if the dog shows interest in eg a cat and you say leave it followed by heel, the dog should leave the object (ie cat) and return to heel. Training the two together gets you an auto heel immediately after leave it. Very helpful for keeping control.

Thanks for your reply Karen - it's good to hear from someone who has faced similar behaviour challenges.

Can you please elaborate more on the walking away from inappropriately rough play? Do you walk away a couple of metres, to another room if in the house, into the house if in the back yard? I do try to move away from him often but then he starts giving chase biting ankles/heels/toes - he just goes after anything that moves so it's hard to walk away from him seeing as he's following me and bringing the behaviour with him. After the walk away, how do you invite them to play again?

Thank you for bringing up "no" not being a command. That was what I initially thought too. We had decided to do positive reinforcement training and I couldn't see anything positive in that. However, when my partner took the puppy to preschool that is what the trainers said to do along with tugging on the collar for unwanted behaviours. Given a trainer gave that direction I thought I must have been wrong. Seeing as he has learnt to sit very nicely I have also been trying to tell him to sit when he does something I don't want him to do and it does temporarily snap him out of whatever he was doing. I do think it works better than "no". I actually don't think he's up to the point of having any real desire to please us so knowing he's displeasing us is probably not very compelling for him anyway. Maybe the things he is giving up on on a "no" (like chewing on/stealing shoes) is just losing it's appeal rather than the "no" command having any effect. I have tried tugging the collar as per the trainer's instructions but I don't think it means anything to him (other than annoying him) and I don't like doing it. I will try working on other commands as you've suggested.

If he's looking to amuse himself in ways you don't like maybe take a look at this site for multiple video's covering puppy training tips on this site?

He might be looking for cold or hard things to chew on as well?. Have you tried large meaty bones? A facewasher dipped in stock, twisted and frozen? His food frozen in a kong?

His food frozen in a large ice cue (along with vegies and other things).

If he's looking to rip and tear you could try putting his meals in boxes and taping them up. Once he gets the jist you can put boxes in boxes.

You could try some kibble in an empty soft drink bottle (no lid) and let him play with it.

Definitely any animals likes interactive games over toys which don't move so you'll always be the most interesting thing to play with (if there isn't another dog to take his attention of course).

Training is a great way to keep an active little mind busy too and help creates a great adult dog.

Even trick training is great fun for both parties :)

Thanks Roova. I will take a look at the videos. I feel out of my depth and am looking at a lot of resources online. I took your suggestion and have made some icecubes with meat and stock and will see how he goes with them tomorrow as to whether it's worth making more and perhaps some much larger frozen treats to keep him going longer. I have tried kibble in a bottle and he liked to chase the bottle but not try to get the kibble out - it's been similar with the kong as he'll chew it for a little while but won't try to get the treats out. I'm wondering if he has trouble smelling food and doesn't realise there are hidden treats but we're seeing a vet soon so will ask them about that.

We are working on some basic training commands some he has picked up really quickly. I do find it hard to time training for a time when he can focus as he seems to swing between sleepy tired and over-excited.

My puppy is learning basic commands. I've tried liver treats which he gets bored with and cooked chicken which he's very enthusiastic to work for. At the moment I'm trying to get him to pee on command and then using "come" to have him come straight back inside (so he learns it's not always outside play time every time we go to the toilet). I need treats for both but I often have to hurry out the door as I see him sniffing and looking for somewhere to toilet inside. I'm tempted to leave a bowl of treats by the backdoor so I can grab as I walk out but in Qld heat at the moment it will go off in no time. I'm wondering what others do in this situation? Cold bag by the back door? Use a different treat (lower value)? I also have a dehydrator I've only used a couple of times in the past and I'm wondering if I could dehydrate the cooked chicken and it will still be a high value treat?

My partner picked out an Amstaff X puppy thinking he would be like a staffy a friend had (and I guess at that stage not knowing they are completely different breeds). I've had smaller dogs in the past as a kid but was happier to go with a bigger dog (and this breed in particular) as I felt an adventurous, robust, loyal dog would fit well into our lives. I'm finding it hard to work out how to play with this puppy. He's making it clear he wants my attention but when I go to play with him he either takes the toy we're playing with away from me (to another part of the yard or house), or if we're playing chase (him chase me) or tug-o-war, he gets over-excited and ends the game by biting, scratching and hurting me.

He is teething and wants to bite on things all the time. We have provided chew toys which he doesn't touch unless we start playing with them with him (example, wave the toy around and squeek it). We have provided a kong which he has no interest in no matter what food we put in it. He likes to press his gums up against the steel bars of his pen (whether he is inside or outside of it). He tries to chew a lot of things but the only things he's interested in chewing on, that are his to chew on, are a bully stick and pigs ear. When our play time ends up in bite and hurt time, and I can't stop him with the "no" command (which he is slowly accepting for other behaviours), I put the bully stick or pig's ear in his mouth to redirect his attention. However, he only chews it for a short time before he comes back up to me and is nuzzling against my leg for attention.

When I'm not playing with him (and he's not sleeping) he spends a lot of time going around the house or yard to find things that aren't his to tug or chew on. Given he also takes toys away from me it sometimes seems like he wants to play by himself but there's nothing stimulating enough for him. He has been to puppy preschool and has met some adult dogs and I feel like those days have been the only ones he's seemed truly contented. We can't afford a second dog and I'm not sure what to do as playing with his humans doesn't seem to be satisfying him.