Gettehlife

11 hours ago, Dogsfevr said:

Dont worry about the crate ,get a dog basket ,it really makes no difference where pup wants to sleep as long as its happy.
Tiles are often cooler especially if the house is warm or no air flow,some just don't wish to hang in there crate all the time,no wrong or right .
My dogs are crate trained because there show,they fly & travel in a crate ,They rarely see one during the week but all i want is a dog that will happily sit in a crate whether it be fire evac emergency,crappy weather,illness or day at vets .For me crate is a life skill but doesn't mean it has to be there world

This does make me feel a lot better as he rarely ever complains being left in his crate unless he feels like he's not a part of the family, but with travelling, sleeping, eating, etc. He has no complaints at all. This whole time I thought I was doing the crate training thing wrong as so many people have said that the dog should see it as it's den, a comparison to a bedroom for us, and I never really saw that behaviour and thought I was doing something wrong. He is more than happy for it to be there and for him to play around his area, I think now the aim is for him to get comfortable with the playpen as he did with the crate. I need to get a more robust pen as he's managed to damage the cheapo one I've got already 

So this is a bit strange, I trialed leaving him in the pen alone while I had my ipad recording him and got two very different results

1. I left him in the pen with the frozen peanut butter kong and kong wobbler and as soon as I left to go upstairs he started whining and barking, taking about 5-10 minutes to settle before I came down around 20-30 minutes later

2. I left him in the pen with whatever was left in the kong and the wobbler, but this time I left the house he just sat as he watched me leave then eventually just slept. Keep in mind I did this immediately after me coming back from upstairs so I know he wasn't more tired by this time. Unfortunately for my testing but fortunately for Ollie my dad came home about 20 minutes after I left, but my ipad kept on recording and he just kept on sleeping until I got home about 2 hours later

One thing I did notice was that he never goes into his crate willingly on his own. He much rather sleep on the tile floor. Am I doing something wrong with my crate training, possibly not working hard enough at it? He goes in fine when I put water and food in there and close the door. Sometimes I put him in there if I MUST do something and can't supervise him. Both times he'll stay quiet and won't really whine, sometimes eventually getting bored and laying down then eventually sleeping. But he would never go in the crate with the door open on his own accord (unless he saw me throw a treat in there, but then immediately comes out). It's like he doesn't mind staying in there, but if given the option he wouldn't go in.

54 minutes ago, Dogsfevr said:

First off don’t get sucked into using words that aren’t describing your dog .

Anxiety is a big issue that requires a whole lot of work .

Most pups take time to adjust to new routines but the more complicated you make it the higher risk you have of creating issues .

The set up ROzzie has we have done ,easy peasy .

But dont over think problems ,puppy raising isn’t complicated 

Yeah anxiety definitely isn't the right word to describe him, more like uneasy or uncomfortable. I'll experiment with the playpen over the next few days and see how he copes

I definitely think I am overthinking and over complicating everything, guess it's just hard to know what's best for him

So it's been a couple of days and I must say both my brother and I have no issues with him overnight now. We take him for one last potty before he sleeps, then one more just before we sleep (usually around 12-1am) then my brother takes him out before he goes to work around 6am. All of this with no noise or barking throughout the night so no more restless nights, I'm really appreciative of everyone's help and suggestions as this is 10x better than what I was experiencing last week

Now onto the next issue, these last two weeks I've been on holidays (currently a full-time uni student) and I'm back to uni next week. I'm debating whether I should leave him in his crate or playpen while I'm gone. The obvious answer would be the playpen for more room, but he seems to be a lot more anxious when I leave him in the playpen than in the crate. Basically the pros and cons of each are as follows

Crate

Pros

- Less anxiety

- Positive association with the crate

Cons

- Less space

- Potential of accidents in the crate

Playpen

Pros

- Larger space (for toys, moving around, etc.)

- Less potential for accidents

Cons

- More anxious when left in the playpen (especially when I leave)

My schedule for classes are

9am-1pm on Mondays and Tuesdays

8am-10am on Thursdays.

Though realistically I leave around an hour before I have class to make it on time, meaning the time away from him will be more like 8am-1:30pm on Mondays and Tuesdays and 7:15am-10:30am on Thursdays.

I don't know if I'm just overthinking this and it's a lot simpler than I think cause I feel a bit confused as to what to do

1 hour ago, Tassie said:

Thanks for the pics.   He's very sweet and looks lovely and bright.

 

In your situation, I would be getting an extra crate so it can stay in your bedroom.  Yes .. pain to have to carry them. .. I have to do that when we're staying in dog briendly accommodation .. it gets a bit old if you're on the move.       You can usually get wire crates fairly cheaply . sometimes from 'cheap shops/discount stored .. bricks and mortar, or online.  I've bought several that way and they're not bad quality and not too exxy.    Then although you can get nice covers, you don't need one .. an old blanket or two will do the job nicely.   Wire crate does need to be covered though to make it den like.

 

As far as crate training goes .. plenty of good how to resources on line ..basics ... super good things come in the crate (any crate) .. so you can have one downstairs and one upstairs .. do some training in both places.  If you time pup's going to bed to coincide with you then shouldn't be a drama.   Just make sure there are always good treats as he goes in.     My girl had had some crate experience at her breeders .. then an all day trip .. long car journey and two interstate flights to get here .. arrived 10.30 pm .. then into an airline crate once she'd had a chance to look around the house and settle down .. and be taken out for toilet.   She slept through with only one break that night,  and sleeps all night through now.   Her ordinary crates (one in family room,  one in car, and one for travelling/shows, trials etc.  are folding wire crates .

 

 

I did plan on buying a higher quality crate as i'm currently using one I got from Kmart and it's quite flimsy so i'll likely take that one into my room and leave the better one downstairs

1 hour ago, Dogsfevr said:

i would go the whole night ,you are training the dog to wake up through the night .What you need to be training is asking to go out ,be let out of crate or alert you to needing out .When you keep doing the routine your taking away the learning process .
During the day never carry pup out ,we do prepare training inside a tad earlier to make the fun of going to the door & the reward of weeing outside so awesome .
Going to the door is always rewarded with straight outside to the preferred toilet spot ,i train the babies onleash but more because there showdogs & toileting onlead isn't natural to all dogs .

I really like your way of training as I do want him to be more independent, as soon as no humans are around he starts to struggle and needs attention which I don't want. He's too reliant on me and any human to live his life.

I'm writing a letter to my neighbours letting them know he may be loud during the day because I'm going to begin to train him that crying and barking doesn't get my attention

Update: I put him to bed at 10:30pm and took him out to potty around 1am instead of 2:30am as I was still awake, he went back in without any issues. He woke up at 4:30 and I took him out to the toilet but he didn't need it so I put him back and he whined for a bit but was okay after. Then he woke up at 6am. 

I'm not sure if I should try to see if he'll go the whole night without needing a potty break (10:30/11:00 - 6/6:30) or continue letting him up once around 2:30/3:00 like when he was downstairs and slowly progress from there

I'm experimenting with his crate in my room tonight as I feel that'll reduce the whining and barking as he'll definitely be able to see me and know I'm here, and that's all he needs. Whereas downstairs in the living room he was probably a couple metres away that he couldn't see me when I slept on the couch

I plan to train his independence during the day, and leave him in the playpen when I can't supervise him like running a quick errand. I'm gonna leave the crate there and leave something on to record to see if he uses it. When I had the playpen around his crate, he rarely ever went into his crate except when he went to sleep. So maybe this is a better solution

3 hours ago, Tassie said:

Unless there's a good reason not to have him in his crate in your bedroom, that would always be my choice.   Especially when he's little, it's so much easier to do the house training, and also it makes bedtime a special thing, rather than just being in the area he's in all the rest of the time.

 

Just a thought .. with stairs in the house, it's worth investing in a babygate to block unauthorised excursions up stairs, and also to protect him from injury on the stairs.   One of the training things is to teach him to do stairs thoughtfully and carefully .. so probably concentrating on going upstairs slowly,  but carrying him downstairs for the moment.    (Thinking in terms of avoiding injury here).

 

Just thought .. we hadn't asked what size he is ... and we haven't seen photos  .

I guess it's just the pain of having to carry up a wire crate every single night. He's been sleeping downstairs on the floor AND the crate, would he be okay to sleep in the crate in my bedroom or should I focus on training him to be comfortable with the crate beforehand?

Here's a link to some photos of him - https://imgur.com/a/eiEkg

1 hour ago, karen15 said:

I think the above poster didn't mean that you interact less with your pup to help them become independent. Certainly not be separated from him during the day. He needs you at the moment. But he also needs to run around and look at things and to learn how to play and amuse himself in appropriate ways.

Yeah I just want him to be less dependant on me because I feel like i'm babying him and he needs me to do anything and everything

I've now taken away the playpen and only gonna take it out when I can't supervise him. Since making this post I've let him roam more freely around the house

I definitely realised, I should really start training him to sleep where I want him to in the future. I just struggled to decide whether in the future I want him to sleep downstairs or upstairs in my room.

After looking back, I realise I do have him quite reliant on me. And the way I've set up the playpen is that it's almost his crate, making it more difficult for him to sleep in his actual crate. I'm definitely going to start working on him being separated from me during the day

The crate is currently downstairs in the kitchen, if I want to crate him into my bedroom do I get him in then carry him while he's awake or let him sleep first and carry him up?

I really appreciate everyone’s suggestions, I’ll try to apply as many of them as I can

Could his napping schedule also affect this? He sleeps around 11pm but has a nap around 7-8pm and also before his dinner. He’s usually up for around 2 hours before he gets tired. Should I avoid letting him have his nap after dinner?

4 hours ago, karen15 said:

Night toilet time should be toilet, back to bed. Little interaction on your part. Are you closing him in his crate at night or can he run around the pen? If he can run around, I'd be closing him in the crate. There is no reason the crate can't be in your bedroom now. My westie was in the crate next to the bed from the first night. If left loose, he'd want to play. The crate kept him quiet and he slept really well.

I leave him in his pen because I wasn't confident he was comfortable enough in his crate. He often sleeps on the floor, wakes up in the middle of his sleep and goes into his crate which is where I usually find him when I take him out for his toilet break. I'll try closing him inside his crate to see how he goes.

4 hours ago, karen15 said:

ETA I've just reread your post. Is the pup allowed out of the pen or is it always in the pen? I only used a pen when i wasn't around to supervise ie went out. For the rest of the time pup had free rein to run around like a dervish and explore his environment. He never cried or barked for attention as he could just come to me when he wanted.

I try to confine him to the pen for him to get comfortable as I wanted that to be his space, I almost treat the pen as if I was crate training. I never really thought of this until you've mentioned it. I might try to let him out more throughout the day, I was just scared he'd chew up some things around the house so I wanted him to stay in a safe area designated for him

EDIT: One thing i've noticed, if he knows he's alone he doesn't spend too long crying for attention, but he knows someone is in the area he'll try to get their attention. For example, I usually go upstairs to my bedroom where I can still hear him if he cries, but he doesn't make any sound and when I go downstairs he's wide awake as if he's woken up a few minutes ago

I took Ollie, my 10 week old German Spitz, home on Saturday, it's now Tuesday and while nights haven't been easy, I'm worried it'll get progressively worse if things don't change.

Right now he has been potty trained well enough that he will let me know if he needs to go outside to do his business. We've set up a crate inside a playpen and that's pretty much his area; play, sleep, etc.

He's 10 weeks so I try to take him out every 2.5-3 hours overnight and I've been experimenting; right now the consistent schedule is he seems to sleep at 11pm, potty break at 2:30-3am, and our morning starts at 5:30-6am when my parents get ready for work.

Currently I'm sleeping on the couch downstairs near him for easy access to take him for his potty breaks. I'm still working on his crate training and when he's been crate trained I want to be able to let him sleep in the crate by me in my bedroom.

The main issue is that when I take him out for a potty break he wants attention. Tonight he let me know he needed to go potty so I took him out and put him back in his area, but he started crying (which I ignored) until he began to bark, which I didn't want to tolerate as my parents have work early and I don't want to make my neighbours hate us. I know that me responding to his barking is teaching him that barking will make me come, and that's what I want to fix. While this could be fixed with crate training, it seems he wants me to be around him while he does this thing (I'm currently typing this sitting in his playpen while he's chewing on toys by himself next to me, and I'm paying him no attention) and I don't want to think JUST crate training will solve all of this, will it?

I thought the issue was that he woke me up before I woke him up and he is full of energy, but last night I woke him up for his potty break and while he did go, he was active after too.

Even if I'm just sitting on the couch near him, he'll still want my attention. Same process; he cries, I ignore, he barks, I come and try to pay him no attention but it seems me being around him is all he wants. The first night I took him to the toilet and put him back and he slept straight away, but things haven't been the same since. I know what I'm doing is teaching him the wrong things and that's why I want to change it, I really need help because this is beginning to affect my health due to the lack of sleep.