holly

GSD can also suffer from endocrine disease, especially Pancreatitis, if you see her having a relapse, talk to your vet, adding Thrive D can help the body to break down the food.

What are her poos like now that she is eating?

Dear Jodie and Ollie

I am really sorry to to hear this update, but glad Ollie is home with you

To be honest Jodie I am with your vet, I would be just making Ollie as comfortable as possible and Ollie will tell you when it is time

Hugs to you and your family

Good old Condees Crystals baths are excellent too to sooth skin

It is all hit and miss with diets, with one of mine, I was swapping and changing the diet, as the scratching got worse, better then back to bad, I then heard about potatoe and fish diet, but that ended up giving a lesion on the anus that I thought was Anal Fruculosis, another wonderful condition our breed can suffer from, but my vet explained that the diet was giving dirrohea which in turn burn the anus and since back on the Advance there has been no more lesions, I had the tests for hyperthyoroidism, IBS, liver...... all was normal.

Supercoat Special is for dogs with sensitive stomachs and allergies, it worked for my friends dog, but mine got hotspots I just can't win.

If you are getting great results on IAMS then leave them on that, if you are having problems still then maybe look at what you are cooking up in the pot, some things that seem totally innocent and inflame the problem, with my allergy rescue pup, he couldn't, ever, eat red meat, he would sit at my feet an hour after the meal and devour himself, with allergy dogs it is K.I.S.S method.

With mine with the allergies, they still get meaty bones a few times a week, because they love them and that is the only fresh meat they are allowed these days, they do pay for it the next day, with a bit of extra itching, but everyone needs a vice, lol

It freezes well, as I said I go through a box pretty quickly, but is a good, fresh colour you should be able to keep in the top half of the fresh for 3 days no problem.

Whiteshepherdsmum, if it is a GSD you are talking about they can suffer from Irritable Bowel Syndrome, which does produce loose stools and depending on what foods you feed makes them loose or firmer. A friend has an older dog with IBS and has great response on Supercoat Special

Depends on where you live, I buy from my local Produce Store and I can buy in as little as 2kg bags, it has to be transported up to here so is about 50c dearer per kg, I do buy in 20kg boxes as I go through nearly a box in week. If you are buying outside the area, then of course you would need to buy in bulk, what price were you quoted?

Ive found Supercoat the best of the supermarket cheaper lines .i

ts first ingredient is meat, not cereal, and its got the omega and linoleic acid

In a recent family pet it made a huge difference switching her from the Pedigree Pal to Supercoat.as they cant do Barf in total in this home

and with sardines once weekly and all commn vegie leftovers and each night a raw chicken neck ,randomly a raw lamb shank or rib piece--she is glossy in coat and well muscled and healthy, no sign now of flaky skin and dandruff

Hi VAH

until two of mine developed food allergies, I didn't mind the Energy Supercoat and even Pal Puppy and Chicken mince and left overs, but now I am forced to use Advance Large Breed for them, as it is only one that does not make them suffer, it is pretty exy but saves on lotions and potions when the itches set in.

If your dogs are healthy, gaining and maintaining weight and condition, I can see no problem with commercial, adding some meaty bones will help to balance it out and keep teeth and gums healthy.

In our puppy booklets issued by the GSDCA, Dr Hedberg states: 1/4 meat and 3/4 biscuit is fine and that was the ratio we did use back then and the dogs have only been to the vet for a few foreign bodies in eyes (mostly grass seeds) and a pyometra.

I've always fed chicken mince (pet grade) from my butchers, but I've always cooked it thoroughly in water and then skimmed the fat off when it solidifies - have been doing this for 20 years and have never had scours in any dog during that time. After watching beef mince crawl within a day or two from various places (including butchers), I can't bring myself to feed raw mince...

Hi Aussky

that is fine, as long as the chicken mince is not the carcass/bones as well, the bone does become glass like in the gut as it passes through, but if you have had no problems in 20 years, why change

I have and it all depends on what the supplier puts into the 'pet mince' too. I have had butchers lie through their teeth that it is meat and offcuts mince, only, but when it has been cooked up, cheerio/frankfurt skins and the like bubble to the surface.

Have you tried Big Dog BARF? I use the Weaner mix with all bar my two with food allergies and it is great.

http://www.bigdogpetfoods.com/

How Mini Foxie's got that bad that they exploded, I had never had a dog with anal problem before, but then he is our first small dog.

I have found though, he has imroved heaps since he started to pinch the cats food. We feed her Devine biscuit with the freezer dried fish pieces, he has not scooted for ages adn loves the biscuit, we add a tablespoon of fresh mince to it, have not had a scooter for ages now

thanks for that information, I am learning as I am going

How much is it for the largest bag?

I use fish oil casules too and it is much cheaper then the pet industry ones. Also, when I was researching a new diet for one of my dogs, I read that Omega 6 can be toxic, so you need Omega 9 to counteract the toxicity hence why some have Omega's 3, 6, 9

Fish oil gets my thumbs up, my dogs coats are very shiny, one that is getting over a litter of pups, has a mirror sheen to her undercoat, something I had not seen before, prior to starting the fish oil.

I was at the Warehouse last week and the had the shedding blades and rakes for under $4 each so I bought one of each, I really like the rake, the blade, I am a bit concerned that it may break the fur, so I have left taht one in the grooming bag, but the rake gets my as well as a comb designed for double coated dogs adn the bristle brush to finish them off

I watched an interesting op on a 5 week old pup with one not so long ago, this umbilical hernia was very large and travelled all the way up to the diagragm. If this pup had been left with the hernia, it would have impeded growth. The pup, 2 weeks on is very healthy and the wound has healed up beautifully

Umilical hernias can be very small and bought about by trauma to the area at birth, to huge, where the contents of the gut can produded out of the abdominal cavity into the hernia and if left untreated, the gut can become strangled and die off.

I would recommend hernia repair at time of the spey too.

I haven't started mine on Big Dog, I am just a little bit iffy with the red meat content with the two with allergies, but glad that others are having great success with the product, I am now brave enoughto go out and give it a try.

Thanks everyone for your feed back on the product!

Holly the chicken

Dae

my vet has come good with a name of very good dermatologist that travels around the Gold Coast area and is nice guy too! Will PM you their contact details

Holly

Hi Dan

I am learning as I am going, lol and have a very patient vet who sits me down and doesn't mind sharing what he knows.

I never thought to ask the question about the breed specific thyroid levels, will have to ask him.

I also don't know of a dermatologist in Brisbane, the vet I go to will dig up answers if he is not sure or has not came across them before, I will ask him if he knows of a good one.

I have had trouble with BARF for my dogs, my girls crusty nose, got worse on it, so I have opted for a premium commercial and just add a few more goodies from time to time.

Thanks for the name of the Hills diet, I did a quick web search and couldn't find it. I didn't realise that they did anything to the proteins, thought they just used proteins that do not normal trigger allgergies, eg: fish. Learn something new every day thanks

Holly

Sorry Dan, I did not read properly your signature so I just used your nick.

Thank you Holly, I will try manipulate his food and post here if I have any luck.

Regards,

Andre.

Andre

if you go this way, can I please suggest, that you start off with basic foods and work your way up, eliminate what causes a reaction.

with my skin dog, I started him, with the guidance of my vet, on pure chicken mince (the first supplier I foudn was adding bread to the meat to thicken it, it took awhile to find a pure source, or you can even buy chicken pieces of human grade instead) and rice and a week later, tried another ingredient added to it, if he got a reaction then I would delete that forever from his diet, or if BARF is too complicated then I would recommend you buying a 15kg bag of Euk FP or Hills that is designed for allergic dogs (sorry dont' know the name of it) adn feed nothing else until the bag is finished, if you find positive results, then you can start to add low allergent foods one at a time. I find Omega Oils are great adn am feeding Deep Sea Salmon Oil, also gives them a lovely shiny coat.

Another thing I foudn gave my dog relief was a Condees Crystals bath, you need to wear gloves adn have an old tub, for it turns everything a lovely shade of brown, friend with severe eczema uses this when she has flare ups, so thought he would benefit too adn it was refreshing for my dog, only a 1/4 teaspoon in the water, the Maleseb was also excellent, allergy dogs need to be treated like babies keep it simple

be prepared for frustration.

Holly

The ones I am having trouble with now, on say Advance Adult will scratch and chew, yet on say Advance Large Breed Growth, all are giong great, I havemine dogs on this now.

Holly,

Having read about your dogs before I can only say that they seem to have been really complicated cases! You've done a great job with them!

With the food have you checked to see if there is anything different in the Adult and large growth formulas... all I can think of is that there is something in one and not the other that they either don't do well with or need... ??? Any way, what ever works, works right?!

Asher (the blue boy) has a real severe flea allergy and we never knew until he had his intradermal skin testing done because he was always up to date with treatments and had never been bitten (and we fortunately seem to have very few issues with fleas where we are)!! So sometimes things are masked by something else any way as well...

Dan

I am not sure what the difference is, the Lge Breed Growth has less fat/protein then the Puppy, I think they are all basically the same, we tried the Turkey and Rice (for sensitive dogs) and found they were worse, I did have one on FP, but because they are active dogs, there was not enough in it to keep the dog looking really well. One I know when she is starting a relapse as the nose goest crusty and dry and another, the eyes will start to discharge and lip flews look cracked, so I reassess the diet again.

Some of mine have been complicated adn sometimes I feel like tearing my hair out. Had a full body function test done on two, including the test for Hyperthyroidism, all came back within normal limits.

It can be like one step forward; two steps back, but once we find something that works, then I don't go fiddling , thinking that the dog is getting bored with the diet, because they don't.

My vet also explained to me that some proteins can remain in the dogs body for up to 4 weeks in the highly allergic dog, something that the dog is reacting to now, may very well have gone into the body weeks beforehand. the skin allergy dog, would devour himself, just an hour after eating red meat and wheat.

I will read up on the foods I feed mine and if there is a difference in the ingredients will post back.

Holly

I agree Dan with what you say.

My GSD's that have had allergies, started off as healthy dogs and over time, allergies became apparent.

The ones I am having trouble with now, on say Advance Adult will scratch and chew, yet on say Advance Large Breed Growth, all are giong great, I havemine dogs on this now. I have better success too if I cook the chicken mince for the one that is on a chicken and rice diet, as opposed to raw. I also add some vitamin and mineral supplements such as LSA, kelp and have been trialing Olewo too and also whatever vegetables come off the table.

Now the skin dog I had back, started off the biggest puppy in the litter, his owner changed the diet the pup was being fed to one full of colourings etc and no flea control. Through time, the pup developed allergies to the food and fleas. Within 4 months of coming back, he went from an underweight, hairless dog with crusty stinky ears and smelly skin to healthy again.

His flea control was and remains fortnightly as he now has no tolerance to the flea saliva. He was on third daily Maleseb washes, to clear up the secondary skin infection from the scratching and chewing adn Suralin and Leo Ear Cleaner, every day for a fortnight. It is only occassionally needed now

Just like humans, dogs can develop allergies and it is a process of elimination to find what works for each dog, some are as tough as nails, but others not so adn GSD are well known to suffer from allergies.

If feeding Eukanabu, then perhaps this dog may benefit from Euk. FP, skin and coat and fed nothing else.

There are two ways tackling this, have more extensive pathology tests carried out, or, try a process of elimination within the diet and enviroment first. They say that 85% of allergies are caused by fleas, 15% by food/genetics

Below is information written by Dr Karen Hedberg for GSDCAust

DEEP STAPH PYODERMA

Deep Staph Pyoderma (Furunculosis/Folliculitis/Cellulitis) - Seen almost exclusively in middle aged GSD’s, usually over 5-6 years of age, with probably a slightly higher incidence being seen in females. Most cases have a pattern of frequent relapses and the condition is thought to have an immunological basis.

Symptoms - Often with a history pattern of intense puritis prior to condition breaking out. Areas affected rump, back, flanks and thighs in a bilaterally symmetrical pattern. Some individuals have more extensive lesions affecting the chest and neck. The head, ears and front legs are rarely involved.

Causes - The condition is thought to have an immunological basis. Bacterial hypersensitivity, genetic predisposing factors, immune deficiencies and hypothyroidism have all been considered as precipitating or complicating factors.

Treatment - Consists of periodic courses of antibiotics, and ongoing use of low doses of cortisone 2-3 times weekly. Numbers of these cases are low, but due to the severity of the infections that occasionally build up, these dogs require constant care and ongoing medication. Treated carefully, these dogs can be kept comfortable over 4-6 years, but will not cure, and gradually over time may get more severely affected. Severely affected dogs, if not treated adequately, should be euthanased.

ACANTHOSIS NIGRICANS

Acanthosis Nigricans - Often this condition is associated with a hypothyroidism. It is considered to be secondary to endocrinopathies (including hypothyroidism, sex hormone “imbalances” etc) and hypersensitivities (chronic reactions, atrophies, etc; ie. arising from auto-immune deficiencies or hyper-sensitivities).

Age - Can start as early as 12-18 months of age, average age of onset around 3-4 years of age, gradually getting worse with age and in the hotter humid months.

Symptoms - Characterised by auxiliary hyperpigmentation, thickening of the skin, sebhorrea of the auxiliary skin areas and of the ears, and hair loss in a bilateral symmetrical pattern. Earliest signs are hyper-pigmentation of the auxiliary areas followed by thickening of the skin and increasing sebhorrea (greasy, rancid skin).

These dogs again would have to be considered as having an immune system problem. These dogs are not that uncommon and most surgeries that seen reasonable numbers of GSD’s would have around 10 cases ongoing at any one time.

HYPOTHYROID

Hypothyroid - Not a high incidence within the GSD breed, but as with all chronic conditions affecting large areas of the body or involving several body systems, eg. acanthosis, then it should be considered as a possible underlying factor. Equally true (chicken and the egg problem), is that the thyroid levels can be lower in any chronic debilitating condition. Rarely seen under 2-3 years in the GSD.

Symptoms - Include thinning of the coat, poor top coat, excess weight and sluggish disposition with no change in diet/amounts fed, poor reproductive history (often where initial history was very good).

Diagnosis - Test T4 levels, dogs showing symptoms and below or on the lower end of the normal range should be supplemented to see the affect, if needs be, re test levels 6 weeks later.

Treatment - Usually use drugs such as Oroxine, dosages in dogs is generally much higher than in humans due to lower absorption of the drug from the intestine. Can be associated with Acanthosis Nigricans

DYSCOID LUPUS ERYTHEMATOSIS

Dyscoid Lupus Erythematosis - Cutaneous (of the skin), this is an immune system problem, where the exposed skin is over sensitive, particularly to the summer sun.

Breeds - Predisposed breeds include the GSD, Collie, Sheltie, Siberian Husky and Malamute.

Age - Onset varies, but usually the cases seen are over 3-4 years of age.

Symptoms - Signs initially are depigmentation of nose and lips, this progresses to ulceration, tissue loss and scaring. Ears, eye rims, feet and genitalia may also be affected. Exposure to ultraviolet radiation will acerbate the condition. In the GSD it is primarily to nasal area that is affected.

Treatment - With suitable creams (zinc, sun block) and cortisone orally. This condition is largely controllable. Excessive exposure to summer sun should be avoided. This is an immune system problem. Numbers seen are very small proportionally.

Hi Dae

my girl developed a crusty nose and also skin itching last year, at age 5 and she was on basically the same diet for the last 2 years, I have worked through her diet and found out what triggers her allergies, she didn't have ear problems, thou my pup we bred that came back with allergies, had crusty ears and 'elephant like' skin with every little hair.

Both dogs are now maintained on diets that suit their individuality, I am happy to share here, or if you want to PM me you are welcome.

My friends labs were always having ear problems and hotspots and she gave them yoghurt and cider vinegar in their meals it solved 90% of the skin problems.

thanks Isaviz, will keep this tip in mind, one of mine easily gets flare ups

I can not feed mine Supercoat either, they develop cow pats for poops, makes poo patrol a nightmare and apart from the Energy, they always developed hot spots, some even on Energy get them too. When I shop for commercial diets, I always flip over the bag and look at the ingredients and if it is full of fillers first, wheat, rice and those other ingredients including 'by-products' of animals, then I look for another bran.

I had a similiar problem with one of mine during summer and I tried most things, the last was a fish and potatoe diet, my dog then developed a lesion on the anus, fearing anal fruculosous, which can also be tied in with Irritable Bowel Syndrome and skin itchiness can also be tied in with I.B.S and hyperthyroidism, I went straight to the vet.

My vet was not too worried about my dog as he showed no other symptoms and what I had been feeding him could very well have turned his poops acidic which turned to slight diarrohea and that scalded the anus and because I had already tried BARF diets, he explained to me the process of protein in the body and that some proteins that are allergents can remain in a dogs system for up to 4 weeks depending on the dog, he recommended that I go straight to Eukanbu FP and that is $$$ too!

My dog did ok with it and there was no point in my seeking out my vets opinion if I was not going to follow his advice. So I stuck with the 15kg until completed. I did find a marginal improvement, but then the season was changing too, thou I found his condition was falling away slightly on this food. He had no flare ups of lesions nor bowel problems.

I believe the trigger was the chicken mince being fed, I took the gamble and put back onto what I original use to use, another premium biscuit with more goodies for energetic dogs and we have not looked back.

I ended up also having a full Body Function Profile done to rule out infections and organ abnormalities, the thyroid was also tested, my vet said it was unnecessary but knew I am paranoid, lol and it all came back clear.

Out of respect, I would have continued with what your dogs vet recommended and then report to them the results you found, but that is just me, I would just be concerned if your dog had a flare up, that your vet would get irritated that you didn't follow the initial advice adn we all know how frustrating that can be.

If you do BARF, the food allergy dog I took back, I had to go back to basics. With him, chicken mince was fine, but red meats no good, so under my vets instruction, I started with chicken and rice and then slowly over weeks, as opposed to days, I introduced one new ingredient at a time and if we had an allergy appear, that ingredient was wiped from teh diet. he gained nearly 10kg in 4 months too.

You need to also use a very good flea preventative and be ruthless, I used one every 2 weeks as opposed to what was recommended every 4.

A allergy dog can not have manufactured treats either, I do give them dried pure liver treats from time to time, otherwise it is lamb flaps or brisket bones, some will itch in the days after but they enjoy the treat, just as I do chocolate, lol, but those artificially coloured treats are off my shopping list, they dont like them anyway