SkySoaringMagpie

Started to post and decided I was speechless. That is my pretty close to my neighbourhood.

I was just talking about it with Keshwar and I mentioned that while one might expect to see dogs fighting one wouldn't expect to see their owners punching on. Keshwar said "well, it is Belco".

http://www.canberratimes.com.au/act-news/man-punched-in-belconnen-dog-fight-20130604-2nnir.html

A 60-year-old man says he was assaulted while taking his dogs for a walk at a Belconnen oval.

Paul Bradley has been left with a black eye and stitches after a younger man walking his dog at Weetangera Neighbourhood Oval on Monday night allegedly landed at least three punches after a heated argument over dogs being off their leashes.

Mr Bradley said he took two dogs – a Labrador-border collie cross and a Labrador-kelpie cross – to the park about 5.30pm on Monday night, and the dogs approached the other man’s dog and barked.

“I let them off the lead and they saw this other dog, and what they did was bolt over and on this occasion barked, and the man said they growled,” he said.

Mr Bradley said he walked towards the incident and the man, walking a Blue Heeler of similar size to the two dogs, criticised him for allowing the dogs off their leash.

“Probably a dozen times he said the same phrase – ‘I’m sick of people like you taking their dogs off the lead’,” he said.

“He kicked the dog towards the end of the discussion.”

Mr Bradley said he replied “you’re the one being aggressive, not the dogs – it’s an off-lead area”.

Mr Bradley said the man then attacked him.

“He landed several blows, then pulled the jacket over my head,” he said.

“I can understand someone being freaked out [when the dogs came over], but once they realise there’s no danger … ”

He said that by the time the men were arguing, the dogs were milling around together.

An ACT Policing spokesperson said they received a report of an alleged assault at about 6.30pm last night.

“Investigations are ongoing. As such, it would be inappropriate to comment further,” he said.

The Territory and Municipal Services Dog Control Areas map indicates Weetangera Neighbourhood Oval is a dogs off-leash area.

There is one lady I met who freely sells her puppies on main register, what the buyer doesnt know is they have already been desexed before 8 weeks.

Sounds a bit odd to me, why would you want your dogs out there getting a reputation for being infertile?

So the majority of people who own american bulldogs are less then reputable people and are bogans generalise much

Anyone who likes bull breeds or has a bull breed is a bogan, didn't you know?!

Absolutely, and anyone who owns a sighthound is one of the jet setting beautiful people. :cool:

There are no bad dogs, just bad owners.

If by that you mean "bad" is a moral judgement and bad owners are the ones that don't take responsibility for managing or putting down a dog with serious unrecoverable aggression then I agree with you.

If by that you mean that all dogs are basically good and are turned bad by their owners, I'd suggest your experience isn't broad enough. Yes owners can have a big influence and many dogs can be made or marred by circumstance. However, sometimes all the care in the world doesn't change the fact that a dog is driven to try to kill other dogs or people, and will keep trying for the rest of its life. It's pretty offensive to suggest that owners of those dogs are "bad" - particularly if the cause of the aggression is something like brain lesions, genetics, low thyroid, epilepsy of the "sudden rage" kind etc.

There are only some things that I notice - for example work recently advertised some overseas postings. If I did not have the dogs, I would apply. But with our mad mob, it would never work to transfer overseas.

Like others here, we also don't go out at night during the week - if there is something that has to be done like a dog club meeting, one of us will go and the other one will stay home.

I don't think about the amount of money we spend on them, got to spend it on something so it may as well be dogs :D

Worth pulling this out for education purposes re the unwiseness of advertising FTGH

http://our-compass.org/2012/04/11/free-to-a-good-home-craigslist-dog-killer-sentenced-in-west-virginia/

Convicted serial dog killer, Jeffrey Nally, of New Cumberland West Virginia was sentenced by Judge Fred Fox II on Wednesday to 10-45 years behind bars. While animal advocates would rather have seen him spend life in prison, the truth is that this sentence is substantial considering that animal abuse cases seldom carry this kind of weight. From that standpoint, the outcome is a victory.

It is true though, that this was no run of the mill animal abuse case. This was a brutal series of intentional mutilations, torture and execution of innocent puppies. Nally was accused of mutilating and killing 29 puppies that he received through classified ads, and Craigslist “free to good home” ads.

Nally’s house was raided by a SWAT team in March of 2011 when his girlfriend’s mother called authorities. His then girlfriend, Jessica Sellers, alleged that Nally had been holding her captive in his home and terrorizing her by torturing and murdering the animals in front of her.

Police found 29 dog carcasses on Nally’s property. They also found guns, which Nally was prohibited from possessing due to a 2010 domestic battery conviction, and collected other items including blood and hair covered tools and what appeared to be a beagle’s pelt and eyes in a jar.

During an evidence suppression hearing, Nally’s court-appointed attorney, James Carey, had argued to keep the pelt and the eyes out of evidence, citing a lack of scientific proof the items are what police claimed them to be. He also stated that he believed some of the crime scene photographs were staged.

Related: Alleged Puppy Torturer Appears in Court

Also Related: Accused ‘Free to Good Home’ Pet Killer Will Move to Suppress Evidence

Nally, age 20, was facing 29 counts of felony animal cruelty, one count of domestic battery, one count of kidnapping and one count of unlawful possession of a firearm. Although he had passed on a plea deal offered to him last January, he took the plea offer he was offered this week.

Hancock County Prosecutor James W. Davis said that there had been an overwhelming outpouring of concern in the form of letters and e-mails from around the world relating to this case.

Nally pled guilty to nine charges of felony animal abuse and unlawful possession of a firearm. He will receive one to five years on each count of cruelty, and one year on the firearm charge to be served concurrently.

Nally has already spent a year behind bars while his case was continued in Hancock County Court. He will have to serve a minimum of five years before he can apply for an early release. In exchange for pleading guilty to the nine charges of felony cruelty, the sexual assault, kidnapping charge and other 20 cruelty charges were dropped.

Nally has shown no remorse for his actions, but Davis said that he has changed during the past year. “I wouldn’t call it remorse, but he has accepted that what he did was wrong,” said Davis. “Of course, people like this, sociopaths, they are mostly only concerned with how circumstances are affecting them.”

Restrictions on Nally ever having a pet and other requirements will be addressed further down the road at the time of his eventual release. “Not just having any pet,” Davis said. “I don’t want him to be around any animals, ever. Definitely not under the same roof.”

Davis said that a few dogs had escaped the house of horrors and have been adopted. “They are having great lives.” He said.

Part of the plea deal is the condition that Nally submit to a polygraph test and debrief authorities on Seller’s involvement in the cruelty charges. Sellers reportedly told investigators Nally said the only way she was leaving his 1855 Orchard Road home was “in a body bag,” and that on the day of his arrest he forced her to hold a puppy as he bored into its head with an electric drill. However, she testified during a February pretrial motions hearing that she had left the house without Nally’s supervision on several occasions during her approximately three-month “captivity” there.

“Ms. Sellers was a problematic witness,” Davis said, “because there is some question as to her level of involvement. There is some evidence that she obtained the animals for him. My dogs, they won’t hold still to have their nails clipped…these dogs he tortured…to do what he did, somebody had to hold them still. A dog is not going to hold still while a drill is bored into its skull.”

Davis was audibly distressed while discussing details of the case, and became overwhelmed and unable to continue when it was remarked that the case had greatly disturbed him.

Following Wednesday’s hearing, Davis had noted the contributions of other people and groups involved with the investigation, including West Virginia State Police Cpl. Larry Roberts, Hancock County sheriff’s Sgt. Scott Swan and county Animal Control Officer Nicole Busick. He praised the work of forensic experts Drs. Beth Wictum of UC Davis and Melinda Merck – the latter of whom helped federal prosecutors build a case against Michael Vick – and thanked the Animal Legal Defense Fund for its pledge of financial support for the prosecution of the case.

Scott Heiser, of the Animal Legal Defense Fund, said there is still work to be done. He referred to Nally as a narcissistic psychopath, and said that he believes that Nally cannot be rehabilitated. He does not think that Nally will be released in as little as five years.

“He is a clear and manifest threat to society,” Heiser said.

The Animal Legal Defense Fund is a non-profit that helps provide funds and support to prosecutors around the country for the best possible outcome in criminal cases of animal abuse. They provided the funds for the forensic scientists to build the case against Nally.

Heiser recommends that once Nally is transferred to the WV Division of Corrections, risk-scored, placed in one of WV’s several prisons and his projected release date set that then would be a good time to start a petition campaign urging the Parole Board to recognize Nally’s immense danger to society and ask that they deny him any concessions (e.g., no work release) and deny his release after serving the five-year minimum.

Do you think he stops barking because you fixed whatever he was barking at or is actually barking for you and the act of you going in there to fix it has satisfied that so he stops? I'm just wondering whether going and 'fixing' things is potentially rewarding the behaviour? Is he a young or old 9? Some dogs at 9 are quite old in their behaviour whereas others you wouldn't pick their age at all.

The owner appearing where the dog is may also be "fixing" things because it's providing reassurance to a confused or disoriented dog.

This is honestly not something I would deal with with an aversive like a citronella collar given the information that has been presented here, and I am not anti these collars when used the right way on the right dog. In this case tho', the OP could escalate confusion and distress.

If it was my dog I'd try sleeping him in a crate either in my bedroom or just outside the door. Bedrooms tend to be quieter with less external noise than laundries too and once everyone starts getting some decent sleep, then everyone will feel a lot better.

Sighthounds can also appear stubborn when in fact they are unsure. I have an oldie here who joined us late last year and she can also appear stubborn when in fact she just lacks the confidence to do what is being asked - if I remove the thing that is bothering her, and let her take her time, she gets there. If I started throwing aversives at her I'd shut her down. In her case it's because of a fairly significant change in circumstances but dementia can produce a similar sort of failure of confidence.

the NSW one in the main is way off being law as most of it needs to go through parliament to come in but the Victorian one is simply and amendment to the current codes which they can do over night without any other process.

Gives people a framework to complain about it tho'. Has anyone (like DogsVic) submitted the legal framework for breeding as an example of red tape?

The consultation period is now closed for DLG I think, but it wouldn't hurt to call them if people still want to have a say - they have an email address too. I find that Government consultations, at least Federally, will often allow an extension - but you have to ask first

I think the main thing now will be to talk to local members tho'.

I agree its VERY bad regulation - best practice is much more about outcome-based regulation, customer focus and cost-effective compliance. Not this tick-the-box input-based crappola. It reads like they want to be able to prosecute anyone at any time, so put a lot of detailed requirements the average person will not keep documentation on - where are your dog feeding receptacles and disinfectants stored? dogs in house? - where is your last carpet cleaning receipt? why wasn't your dietary plan reviewed and signed of by a vet according to schedule? It's rubbish governance, anal-retentive, inefficent and ineffective.

OK Victorians, you should work through this material, if you haven't already:

http://www.dtf.vic.gov.au/CA25713E0002EF43/pages/reducing-red-tape-on-business-and-the-community

And NSW people, I've had a look through this already, but for meetings with your local members:

http://www.betterregulation.nsw.gov.au/gatekeeping

For those on FB, this group on Sighthounds in Art is worth a look:

https://www.facebook.com/SighthoundsInArt?fref=ts

Beautiful Kelpie CBD

Thank you for sharing the photos SSM, it's very helpful. I've always thought Bella is quite skinny, as she's always been thinner than any Saluki I've come across (I don't see many here in Adelaide!). From what I've been told, she's just about right though. She's definitely filled out as she's grown up.

I think her condition is similar to your foster girl in the second picture.

I get a fair few 'don't you feed it?' comments when I take Bella out! I guess people just aren't used to what sighthounds look like.

Bella has always looked fine to me in photos. :)

The RSPCA is usually pretty familiar with Salukis. I can think of at least two cases where people called them, they visited, saw the dogs were Salukis and in the correct condition, and left again.

but sighthounds come in different shapes and sizes, impossible to give a weight!

Agree! :)

General rule of thumb for greyhounds is last 3 ribs visible but only slightly. Sometimes you can see the hip bones, sometimes not. Fern is about 1 kilo overweight, no ribs visible, hard to feel, but I don't care, she looks fantastic! I don't consider Warrior overweight at all but it is hard to see his ribs with his stripes (brindle patches), can be easily felt. Plus it's coming into winter, a small amount of extra weight doesn't hurt as I work night shift and my dogs sleep outside while I am at work

Good points re winter and coverage. I often have to up the food a bit in winter, and they are not outdoors all the time.

Sighthound weight thread is now up in the Health forum.

A topic in rescue about a rescue sighthound has drifted into what is a good weight for a sighthound.

For my breed the usually referenced standard is that you should be able to see the hip bones and the last three ribs. I also think you can't judge condition on weight alone, you need to look at muscle tone, coat condition, the age of the animal (younger tend to be skinny, older tend to be "well covered").

This little red girl was a rescue, this is shortly after she arrived. It's too light for me, but she is still shiny and she has muscles:

This is shortly before she left for her new home, I was happy with this condition for a Saluki:

For pictures of emaciation, and I don't suggest you click unless you feel up to it - click on the Electra rescue link at this site: http://www.stola.org

Now for a fat Saluki, which of my girls do I insult, LOL!

Edited to add - this is too fat, but she's still the best girl in the world

I always get a bit upset when people talk about breed standards and a good weight, etc etc.

Just looking should be sufficient.

I respectfully disagree with this. Humans are terrible at judging their own weight, the weight of others, and the weight of their animals. The biggest problem we face is overweight animals, and I agree with HW that peoples' eyes are often out when it comes to dogs, and particularly with sighthounds.

I don't really want to put them in this thread, but I do have pictures of sighthounds that are definitely emaciated. They look different to this dog.

I'll start a thread in the Health forum.

I expect Juliette de Bairacli Levy and others are rotating in their graves at speed.

I am sure a lot of this has arisen from stories like the cow story. Dogs being chucked half a maggoty bit of roadkill twice a week, etc. And because it's hard to define adequate in legislation, they will go to lowest common denominator and make everyone comply. It's like the NSW stuff with the concrete kennels. It's not good for developing pups but because it allows a specific standard against which you can easily measure compliance they can ping people without drama if they step out of line.

Some of this has to come down to whether it's good regulation. Most state governments and the Federal Government have deregulation agendas and guidance material on best practice regulation. Usually black letter law regulation is supposed to be a last resort, and the costs of compliance for both Government, business and the community are supposed to balance properly against the outcomes. A lot of the NSW recommendations don't comply with it and it looks on first scan like this stuff doesn't either.

There's other stuff I don't propose to put here, because I'm sure we all get read by the AR folks. However, I think we need to think strategically about alliances with their next targets. I also think that we might find that issues like Moorook will start to split the AR movement too, there's only so much room on the high moral ground and eventually they start kicking each other off it.

She's not going to be shown is she?

If she was going to be shown it would be more likely that she would be overweight than underweight in my experience.

Understanding that I'm going on the photos only and haven't seen or put my hands on the dog - while I wouldn't want her to lose any more I'm not worried by that weight. You can see she has good muscle tone. I've had young dogs that looked like toast racks no matter how much food you pumped into them, and then later they can be pudgy on half a cup of kibble and 1 2x4 a day. Their metabolisms are interesting, which is perhaps not surprising given the origins of many of these hounds.

Photos are also a bit tricky. I've just had two Salukis in quarantine and initially they lost quite a bit of condition tho' they recovered it later after the staff and I hit on a winning menu. Depending on the angle and the light, they either looked fine or underweight. In person I could tell that their coats were glossy and they were active but they were too light for me.

Whelped today. Three boys and three girls. First was a big bruiser boy who caused a little trouble getting out, but rest were much easier. Pups and tired mum doing well. I promise photos later.

Customs may not play a big role in exports from here but the airlines do require the dogs to be lodged way early

and I am not sure about the care levels at he airport.

Imports however are AT THE MERCY of the wretched CUSTOMS and AQUIS staff who have NO INTENTION of putting themselves out for an animial. I brought in a dog and he was held over half way due to a problem with the plain. So this poor dog arrives in Sydney at 6am. He is left in the shed ALL DAY in his crate as the staff only pick up once a day and that is

really late afternoon. By this time the poor thing has been in transit for 3 days and I do not believe that AQUIS lived up to their duty of care at all. If he had been in that shed in summer he to could have been a victim of the system.

I agree that is very upsetting, but pickup is solely the responsibility of AQIS. I hope you wrote a letter to the Minister about it.

As a third oddity to that story they planned to take him overseas for a few months so they wouldn't have to be seperated from him but surely his stint overseas would necessitate a period of quarantine on the return trip that would have resulted in them being seperated anyway? At any rate i agree that this is the fault of the customs people. A very sad outcome for that little fella.

Err, what possible role would Customs play here? It was an export, and even with imports they don't unnecessarily delay animal cargo clearance for this sort of reason.

MASKargo has airconditioned premises in KL where a lot of the dogs transit. Don't know why they don't in Sydney.

I am no expert, but I have had a dog die of this disease. The two successful recovery cases I am familiar with were cases where the vet worked with the owner to treat the dog at home. Because the dogs experience even small physical efforts as something like an Everest Climb when they are ill with this disease, keeping them rested, very secure, and in a low demand environment seems to assist.