poodlefan

My honest advice is to ignore any inclination to "muscle build" beyond regular exercise and let him mature.

He's only very young.

Only thing I'd want to check would be use by date.

I am not attacking cocker spaniels, so there is no need to defend. However, it is incorrect to say that temperament is 99% training. If breeders are not willing to admit that bad temperament flaws can run in lines and stop breeding from dogs with bad temperament, breeds will deteriorate.

I'm thinking of a reasonably popular stud dog, I won't mention the breed, but not a cocker, whose second, off-the-books call name was A##-hole, and who was known to throw stubborn and troublesome pups. In my book, that dog should have been neutered faster than a dog with 3/3 elbows.

You have attacked them before in the BLS thread!! I have never met a bad cocker. Only way for there to be one is bad breed like with every breed!!!!! Or people being nasty to them so once again like every breed!! They have one of the best temperaments you could want in a dog I have met more aggressive labs than cockers

2 bad labs and no bad cockers

There's good and bad in every breed and to suggest that there are no Cockers of undesireable temperament is a nonsense. That doesn't make the entire breed 'bad' but it does suggest that some careful research (as the OP is doing) is called for. Almost any breed that has been extremely popular at some point will have its issues and Cockers share that with quite a few other dog breeds.

Based on what I've seen, I'd not buy a dog from a breeder that isn't hip scoring and PRA testing. Word of mouth from people who own stable, non-aggressive dogs would be my recommendation.

A trainer I highly respect describes Cockers as "wolves in sheeps clothing". I think that some of them are far too much dog for their owners and they need boundaries like any other dog. They are a gundog, not a lap dog. I think many of the issues I've seen in Cockers relate to making that gundog an unexercised, unstimulated, undisciplined couch potato but not all of them.

Easy.

What's the Fuss!!! ;)

I dont know about all Sighthounds but I can tell you that there's no way known I'd be on SSM's property if there was no one home and Jadir was on patrol. Some sighthounds (not necessarily Salukis) have performed guarding functions over the years (hello Azawakhs) and anyone concluding that all sighthounds aren't protective could be in for a bit of a shock.. a 50kph or more closing fast shock ;)

LOL - Jadir is the decoy - it's Faxon you really need to watch out for.

I'd believe it but it is hard to take blondes as seriously. ;) Did 'Ghans have a guarding role in their villages Bear?

What dog breeds involved?

What dog sports/s?

So yes, mistakes were made, and I feel bad enough, and she feels bad enough, and we both feel guilty enough, but thanks for kicking us while we're down.

All I can say is that I hope your daughter learns from the death of this pup.

It had a bad start in life, she didn't do right by it and its gone. The only good that can come of this is that your daughter identifies where she went wrong and doesn't repeat the process.

And what's with the other house having an unvaccinated pup??

Yes, I think she has definitely learnt a hard lesson poodlefan. And I'm sure she will never make the same mistake again.

The other house only got their pup about five days ago, and simply hasn't got around to vaccinating it yet. The person who sold it to them, sold it unvaccinated

It is upsetting that other breeders are selling pups unvaccinated (something I would never do), and it is upsetting that people are being slack and not getting pups vaccinated straight away. I guess people think it won't happen to them and think they'll get it done when they have some more time, or when they have some more money. But as this shows, it CAN happen and if you don't get a pup vaccinated ASAP then it is sometimes too late.

It's very sad. Believe me I wish people were more careful, but what can you do? If I know somebody has an unvaccinated pet, I strongly encourage them to sort it out, but you can't hold a gun to their head.

Only the irresponsible ones.. my guess is that these pups are sold at 5 or 6 weeks too.

First place I take any pup I get is the vets.. for a general check up. I'd suggest your daughter add that to her check list and that she read a couple of good books on puppy raising. Really basic errors made with this pup.

I'd be waiting 6 months before getting another one too - just to be on the safe side.

It is, and I should have said 'shy', but actually somehow thought 'timid' was practically the same thing and might be easier to swallow. Oops!

I don't find "shy" any less easy to swallow.

"Reserved" on the other hand..

Or "couldn't give a sh!t about things I'm not bred for"

Which manifests in some sighthounds as "couldn't give a shit about making nice with strangers".

I dont know about all Sighthounds but I can tell you that there's no way known I'd be on SSM's property if there was no one home and Jadir was on patrol. Some sighthounds (not necessarily Salukis) have performed guarding functions over the years (hello Azawakhs) and anyone concluding that all sighthounds aren't protective could be in for a bit of a shock.. a 50kph or more closing fast shock ;)

It is, and I should have said 'shy', but actually somehow thought 'timid' was practically the same thing and might be easier to swallow. Oops!

I don't find "shy" any less easy to swallow.

"Reserved" on the other hand..

I wasn't trying to communicate my intent in the OP. I was trying to open the way for sighthound people to comment without leading them. I am happy with how people responded and continue to respond. It gave me the different perspective I was seeking.

If I had data that showed gundogs were more often overweight than other breed groups, I think "Why are gundogs fat?" would be a good question. It gives people the opportunity to say "They're not if fed properly" or "they do seem to have a tendency to get fat easily" and an opportunity to offer explanations for why it might appear that they are, which is basically what I got from the sighthound people. If some gundog people get offended along the way, well, that's a shame because I wasn't saying their gundogs were fat. However, I would like to point out once again that there's nothing wrong with being shy or "less-bold". There is something wrong with being fat.

There is if it's specifically listed as a breed fault. I can't speak for other sighthound breeds but the extended Whippet breed standard describes temperament thus:

TEMPERAMENT

Gentle, affectionate, even disposition.

The Whippet is one of the least aggressive of dogs, both with people and with other

dogs. He is gentle and affectionate in the extreme, but will also form a very close

relationship with one particular person. He is amenable to discipline and very anxious

to please. Whilst all this is true, he should not be at all retiring or shy. He might not be

very interested in you, as a stranger, but he most definitely should not be timid, and

will, given cause, warn off intruders.Look For: A relaxed but confident, even disposition. A Whippet should be neither

timid nor aggressive.

Anyone who doubts that a Whippet would be bold enough to warn off intruders need merely arrive at my house unannounced. I'd not go in my yard if Howie was out there and I wasn't home.

and I'm one of them and my recent litter of 8 was the first in the country for 22 months. There has been another litter recently born, so we woul have around 100 at the most non race bred greys in Aus and most of them could be accounted for.

Not a lot of BYB litters either as far as I can figure.

So yes, mistakes were made, and I feel bad enough, and she feels bad enough, and we both feel guilty enough, but thanks for kicking us while we're down.

All I can say is that I hope your daughter learns from the death of this pup.

It had a bad start in life, she didn't do right by it and its gone. The only good that can come of this is that your daughter identifies where she went wrong and doesn't repeat the process.

And what's with the other house having an unvaccinated pup??

Okay...

1. That most of the sighthounds in my survey were ex-racers is a massive assumption and one that can't be supported.

Can't be supported because there's no data on that or can't be supported because its factually inaccurate.

There are a handful of non-racing grey breeders in this country.

Might be one idea to run to ground... it's not only nature that determines temperament but nuture as we all know.

If the origin and early environment of dogs is a significant determinant of their temperament, seems to me that needs to be addressed before making any conclusions about their breed.

But hey, I'm not a scientist.

Male 'Zoi are growing on me.. goofy seems to be hard wired into them.

I prefer males but think a mix of genders is a good idea.

To some degree my preferences are also breed dependent.

The only bitch I own marks.

well not really... because it was an exploratory question taht was based on research she had done that showed sighthounds to be lower on the scale of "boldness" having found that, why would she come on here and ask that question?

She wanted to see if anyone had ideas on why they might be lower on the boldness scale - not people opinions on whether they were or not.

Given that some sighthound breeds weren't included in that study, most of us had issues with the generalisation. Ex racing greyhounds aren't what I'd call indicative the temperament of all sighthounds.

What was the 'test'.. if it required approaching the tester for a treat.. quite a few ex-racers probably don't know what a treat is. And failure to approach may indicate disinterest, not timidity.

I think Corvus had already said the majority were not ex racing greys?

Corvus:

Most of the sighthounds in my survey were greyhounds.

The number of pet greyhounds from non-racing backgrounds is not likely to be significant IMO.

well not really... because it was an exploratory question taht was based on research she had done that showed sighthounds to be lower on the scale of "boldness" having found that, why would she come on here and ask that question?

She wanted to see if anyone had ideas on why they might be lower on the boldness scale - not people opinions on whether they were or not.

Given that some sighthound breeds weren't included in that study, most of us had issues with the generalisation. Ex racing greyhounds aren't what I'd call indicative the temperament of all sighthounds.

What was the 'test'.. if it required approaching the tester for a treat.. quite a few ex-racers probably don't know what a treat is. And failure to approach may indicate disinterest, not timidity.

My friend's SP died of bloat.

One more thing: roadwork

Regular repetitive exercise will also help stimulate the gut and the anal sacs.

What are his hip/pelvis like. A good chiropractor may also help. Dogs that are experiencing skeletal issues in the pelvic region can often have anal sac issues.

Another observation I'd make is that quite a few sighthounds are not into effusive gushing people. Make a big fuss over "the lovely doggy woggy" and many will just turn away.

They have their people, and then there are the great unwashed that may or may not get a greeting but they don't respond well to silliness IMO. Nervous types also get the cold shoulder. They like calm people.

There's not much "bolder" than a sighthound in full prey drive.. little inconveniences like barbed wire won't stop one and Im sure I"m not the only owner with the vet bills to prove it.

I hate to say it but 48 hours of vomiting and diarrhea without veterinary treatment would kill most young pups - chronic dehydration would do the job.

It could have been any number of causes.

Some dogs don't ever grow out of it.

It can be managed though.

Greet puppy outside.

Ignore puppy for the first few minutes inside.

If you have visitors, get them to greet the pup outside and avoid bending over the pup inside.

It will get better!

I would add psyllium husk to his diet AND feed plenty of baked pumpkin.

Sorry, but bones do NOT assist with emptying anal glands. It is fibre that does. In the wild, dogs get that from fur and feather, not from bone.

How much exercise does your dog get?

Howie timid.

He IS sensitive. Sighthounds in my experience don't cope well with owners who throw tantrums and get physical with them. They neither forgive nor forget.

If I were going to look for a reason some sighthounds were sensitive, I'd be looking hard at how they were socialised.. or not.