MalteseLuna

I get constant looks and people asking me why I am being cruel or talking behind me when I walk past with a Maltese in a top knot :rolleyes:

Apparently dogs shouldn't have pig tails on their heads

Carl is famous for not liking kids (well, everybody, but kids especially since they're loud/bouncing/moving fast). He has bitten 5 or 6 kids in the time I've had him. :p He tends to shut down when he is afraid and if they get close, he launches. I personally don't give a stuff. If some parent is stupid enough to let their kid touch my obviously terrified dog, they get what they deserve. (Note all these incidents happened without me seeing; most times I am able to intercept but Carl wanders off at the park.)

I have to say this worries me, yes the children shouldn't approach your dog but your dog shouldn't be off leash if he is aggressive towards people.

Dog owners are responsible for their dogs behavior. A dog that has fear aggression should never be placed in a situation where someone else might be injured much less a child! Your dog shouldn't be allowed to wander around and get in these situations!

At the same time some children should be kept on leashes as well by parents!

Sorry to rain on the parade but is is genetically possible for Labs to come in silver, look at Chessies colours they are brown and all it's dilutions (from the darkest ebony brown to the lightest ash). Ash/silver is a dilution of brown and natural for brown pigmented dogs with dilution genes. ;)

mmmm not really I don't think - yes they might both be caused by dilutions but this doesn't mean it's (1) the same allele causing the colour or (2) the same gene causing the dilution.

The dog pictured looks like a cross to me - very wei-like in the face.

There are also multiple genes/alelles for white. All whites are not created equal: White Colour Genetics

Yup - I know as I have genotyped my Maltese in part of some of my research I use her as a control or comparison ;) She is aw or at at Agouti, kyky at the K (dominant black) locus and ee at the MC1R or Extension locus - similar to a white Samoyed.

I was told by 2 different vets that black dogs were more prone to Hemangio. But they didn't prove to be great vets so who knows. Groenendaels can be either dominant or recessive black, both K and a occur in the breed, not sure what that means for the supposed link.

Could be a 'myth' as opposed to scientific fact then.

I found this in a Science article by Elizabeth Pennisi - Volume 317, September 2007 called The Geneticists Best Friend

Danielle Karyadi in Ostrander’s lab is also a recent convert to dog genetics. She has spent much of her career chasing down genes that make people more susceptible to prostate cancer. Now, she has turned her attention to squamous cell carcinoma, a cancer found only in solid black dogs, such as poodles. “It will be really exciting when we can identify genes in dog cancers” and use them to understand human cancers, says Karyadi.

So it's possible there is a relationship.

Sources, please. Black is the dominant colour in Labs. I have never heard that they are prone to bone or hamangiosarcoma cancers.

I have seen studies saying that golden Cockers are more aggressive than other colours.

To answer the question on colour and issues:

Black - more prone to certain kinds of cancer including hemangiosarcoma and bone cancer

There are 2 types of Solid Black controlled by 2 different genes

(1) recessive black caused by an allele at the Agouti gene

(2) dominant black caused by an allele at the K locus (Dominant Black) or CBD103 gene

Black coat colour in Labs is caused by the second gene, Dominant Black. Yellow is caused by ee at the MC1R (Extension locus) and Chocolate/Brown by an bb allele at the B (TYRP1 gene) locus. Liver pigmentation in yellow labs can be caused by TYRP1 as well.

I've never heard of the predisposition of Black dogs to certain kinds of cancer.

And just to confuse things more, sable in Borzoi is now known not to be a^s or a^w as once reported, but almost certainly a^t a^t with a modifier on the e series, e^G. Unlike clear red borozi which are a^y. Sable can be tricky.

Different allele or mutation at the same gene, agouti.

The agouti gene doesn't by itself explain the sable colour/pattern in Borzoi.

In all likelihood it is the same as domino in Affies and grizzle in Salukis, the e^G gene whch was only written up this year affecting the expression of black and tan, a^t. But the work wasn't done on 'zoi so I don't think it's 100% certain it's the same. Borzoi breeders have known for a long time it's not just the agouti gene though, from the way it was inherited.

Edited to be a bit shorter and less confusing with the quotes, I hope!

This is very true E^G was recently described in Salukis and Afghan Hounds- this allele is from the Extension (E locus). They call the phenotype related to this allele combination (a^t/at with E^G)grizzle (in the paper atleast). The paper is Dreger and Schmutz (2010) A New Mutation in MC1R Explains a Coat Color Phenotype in 2 "old" Breeds: Saluki and Afghan Hound. Journal of Heredity doi:10.1093/jhered/esq061 if anyone is interested.

To me sable is more of a gray wolf colour (i.e. the wild type agouti pattern) with either mixed black and yellow/red hairs or banded black and red/yellow hairs. There seems to be a practice of calling very different colour patterns by the same name - this makes it confusing as often they are each caused by different genes, alleles or combinations of alleles.

The allele is possibly the same if Saluki's and Borzoi's are closely related breeds or have common heritage.

I guess if people learn something from all this then that is a good thing.

The saddlepoint pattern (as) is a different gene from the black & tan (at). Interestingly Amber has a different sable gene (ay) to the gorgeous sable husky (aw).

as has not been confirmed at a genetic level.

I guess if people learn something from all this then that is a good thing.

The saddlepoint pattern (as) is a different gene from the black & tan (at). Interestingly Amber has a different sable gene (ay) to the gorgeous sable husky (aw).

And just to confuse things more, sable in Borzoi is now known not to be a^s or a^w as once reported, but almost certainly a^t a^t with a modifier on the e series, e^G. Unlike clear red borozi which are a^y. Sable can be tricky.

Different allele or mutation at the same gene, agouti.

I am not aware of any Samoyeds with the above issues ^^^^^^

I think the deafness issue depends on which gene series is producing the white. I thought Samoyeds' white came from the chinchilla series, and some other whites from the S spotting series - but I may be remembering it wrong.

I think that in my breed even the apparently white dogs, which are probably extreme white spotted on the S series, have modifiers which ensure some colour, however faint, over the ears. I haven't heard of deafness issues (not that I would necesssarily hear).

Additionally white in samoyods is not caused by chinchilla but rather double ee at the E (Extension) locus like Maltese Chinchilla hasn't been verified at a genetic level yet.

There are different genes which can cause solid white colour - only some are associated with deafness.

Sorry, a little off topic, but wanted to ask does anyone have any studies etc showing that black & tan dogs actually are more prone to parvo?

To clarify, I know there are several black and tan breeds that are particularly prone to parvo. But are these black and tan dogs prone to parvo because they're black and tan? Or do most of the breeds that are susceptible to parvo just happen to be black and tan?

e.g, are B&T staffords, pitties or GSD more susceptible to parvo than solid coloured dogs from the same lines or same breed?

If anyone has any evidence that b&t dogs are more prone to parvo than non b&t dogs within the same lines or breed, would they please share?

Thanks.

I don't think the GSD saddle pattern is caused by the same allele as black with tan point (B and T Staffords).

Wanted to say that often very similar phenotypes i.e. 'solid White' can be caused by different genes.

For example my Maltese which I have colour genotyped at MC1R (E locus) CBD103 (K locus) and Agouti (A locus) is solid white because of:

Double recessive ee at MC1R - same genotype which causes white in Samoyed. She also carries the Aw or At allele so if she wasn't white (ee) she might have been wolf sable or black and tan At the moment black-and-tan (at) and wolf sable (aw) alleles are indistinguishable at a DNA level - or atleast undefined.

ee also causes the yellow colour in Labradors

White could also be caused by MITF (spotting gene) or Chinchilla (which hasn't been found at a genetic level yet).

But what of the dog that is not prone to health issues because of its colour?

Is it always due to health reasons that certain colours are not acceptable? If not, why are they not accpetable?

No - most standards were written before colour genetics was understood properly. Perhaps some should be re-written.

However breeding for a specific colour particularly in some breeds can cause doubling up on recessive disease genes etc. Some colour genes have close relationships with disease genes or important functional genes i.e. MITF (spotting gene) and deafness or Merle or...

Just because something is true for one breed doesn't mean it's true for another.

As many have said before (that I merely summarised):

(1) preventing greeders from doing DAMAGE to the breed by promoting 'rare' colours and exploiting/inbreeding/overbreeding is one of the main reasons put forward.

I can sympathize as Maltese are often used in 'oddle' farms and if there was something I could do to stop them being exploited I would probably do it.

Maltese are lovely and most have fantastic temperaments (those from reputable places) - mine loves children and is very cuddly - however as they are quite small (ranging from 2-3.5 kg) not something I would recommend for a house with active children :D Unless they were very careful children.

I would suggest a Lhasa, Shih Tzu or Havanese all of which are lovely dogs with similar fluffy look but are bigger and slightly sturdier.

Tell them that my parents have a Malt X Shih who has had terrible joint problems resulting in $$$$ knee surgery and skin allergies due to bad breeding/genetics. Whilst a lovely dog my parents will never buy a DD again as their Pug has had very few health problems in comparison (they are the same age). Instead they want to get a Shih Tzu - which have the lovely placid laid back temperament they love.

I've been using Canidae and am very happy with it so far - I feed the Grain Free All Life Stages

Hi

I'm hoping to save a whole packet of time and trudging through sites to find out the answer to my question, so I thought I'd pop in here first as someone might have this answer right there at their fingertips.

I'm looking for a good quality dry food that does not contain wheat, corn or soy.

Anyone know?

Artemis or Canidae

I'm feeding Howie the Canidae All Life Stages grain free atm. As it has other vegetable fillers, the protein on it isn't through the roof like Artemis Maximal.

I feed Luna Canidae ALS grain free and love it except that my order still hasn't come and Luna is out of food (they only had big bags and I didn't want to order 6.8 kgs of food when my dog is 3 kg )

I have also tried Artemis but prefer Canidae

.. he warned you - no one was attacked, and I guess he is entitled to take his dog to the park too ? I don't see anything to report, sorry.

I don't think people with aggressive dogs have are entiltled have their dog offleash in public, even if it is an offleash park. Perhaps while there is no one around, but certainly not in the presence of potential victims...

Though obviously, I can't prove his dog was aggressive as there way no way we were going to get close enough to find out.

I do think it is just a disaster waiting to happen as he clearly had no intention of ensuring the safety of others (that is if the dogs IS actually aggressive). There are not many dogs with perfect recall, and i have to say that a lot of the dogs that do go to this park have very little recall.

When we did go to a separate area, an 8-10 week old cocker puppy rushed up to my dog and would not return to the owner. The owner started walking off and I actually thought for a minute there that they were going to leave me with the puppy!!!

I had to warn them not to go near the aggressive dog because i am sure that would have ended badly

Oh well, I guess I can't really do anything, which is a bit frustrating.

I would report it. A dog that is aggressive to other dogs should NEVER be taken to an off-lead park. It is an accident waiting to happen.

One person with a malti-cavoodle (yes, you heard right), wanted to breed with a purebred malti-cavoodle because they make such great pets.

Health tests? "she is perfectly healthy, she has been vet checked" Yet I can see stains around her eyes...

Temperament? "don't let your big dog over near her, she doesn't like big dogs"

Whilst I agree with the sentiment - tear staining in a Maltese (or swf) doesn't mean there is something wrong with the dog or that the dog shouldn't be bred from. Most vets will say 'all white dogs' have staining and that it's normal.

There is this excuse:

Because [insert pet name here] is awesome and I would like to have a son/daughter from [insert pet name here]

I'm quite frustrated with a pair of really good friends whom I've known since high school - they got a Dachshund which is now ~1.5 years old whom they proudly got from a non-registered breeder as they didn't want an 'inbred' dog from a show breeder (after watching that BBC documentary). They were planning to desex her but have now decided they want a litter because they want to keep some of the puppies and give some away to friends (for free). I've already told them why they shouldn't... made no difference. Apparently their vet said to wait till she was two.

Now the dog is sweet but she is totally un-socialized, scared of any other dogs (even my Maltese who is about 1/2 it's size), is quite submissive and pees whenever people come over to their house etc. They don't know anything about canine reproduction - rushed her to the vet when her 'privates' got all swollen because she was in heat.

Makes me want to slam my head against a wall... but nothing can be done.

If I say anything about it they just say " but you want to breed Maltese in a few years... why can you but not us"... difference being I want to show + be registered etc and do everything right.

Do you have any giant Maltese - I was thinking about upgrading a few sizes.

I am also tempted by a mini malamute

Yup - but besides dingoes, New guinea singing dogs, Carolina dogs, Basenji (which are all 'ancient' and of Asian descent)... are there any modern European dogs that have a single annual season?

Is it only ancient Asian breeds that have a single annual season? And which are the breeds that only have a single annual season?

Can anyone help me out - I was wondering about whether any Asian ancient dog breeds i.e Shar Pei, Akita, Shiba In, Chow Chow, Korean Jindo, Kintamani dog etc have a single annual estrous cycle compared to the norm in most 'modern/European' dogs which have two?

I know that Basenji only have a single estrous but couldn't name any others.

I bought a puppy, Belle, advertised in the trading post before I knew better - she was a Maltese cross Pomeranian. The "breeder" also had shih tzu and poodle puppies for sale. He lived in a small 1-2 bedroom flat in Sydney - ground floor. I can't believe he was actually allowed to have as many dogs as he had. I was 18 and stupid. The second I saw her it was too late to say no so I bought her - most of her litter mates had already gone to their homes. She was 7 weeks old (only just).

Belle died less than a week later from Parvo. Her vet bill was over $1000 and she was struggling in ICU for 4 days before she finally passed. She didn't make it to 8 weeks old.

It was the most horrible experience of my life.

I will do my best to never support unethical breeders again and steer as many people as I can away from them.

My next puppy was from a registered Maltese breeder, Luna is in excellent health and has a wonderful temperament. I'm not sure if the breeder was the best BUT she was 100% better than Belle's breeder.

I am now very interested in purebred dogs and plan to get into showing with my next dog (which will be another Maltese).

If you suspect food to be the cause, why don't you try doing a proper food elimination diet, rather than switching kibble?

I'm not sure if it's food - tbh the fact that she is still staining on the eagle pack indicates to me that it might not be food at all (she was on royal canin dental when the staining started)... but it doesn't hurt to put her on as low allergen a diet as I can find right? I would prefer to feed a kibble as I am worried that I might mess up the ratios of nutrient or miss something she needs if I tried cooking something for her - If someone could point me to a EASY to make diet that isn't too messy (she is an indoor house dog with LONG white hair around her face) I might try it out though.

My vet isn't helpful - whenever I bring up the staining and feet chewing they just say 'oh it's nothing she probably just likes chewing her feet' or 'all white dogs stain'.

I've had her on the l/D science diet before but I don't like it and she doesn't need it - the vet and specialist have both said this.

Canidae ALS has 34% has it's protein from beef, lamb, chicken and turkey, I would prefer a single protein source i.e. just lamb or venesion or salmon.

I really don't want to buy from PP or any of their stores ;)

I suspect that Luna has Microvascular Dysplasia (MVD) - meaning her liver doesn't filter properly. This is why she has elevated ALT levels but is generally in good health (and doesn't have a shunt). Apparently it's common in Maltese but has no real side effect (unless it's a severe case) except elevated ALT/Bile Acid levels. Don't think much is known about it here in Australia though.

Does anyone know if such a high protein diet would be bad for a dog with MVD?

Was thinking of alternatively trying a lamb or venison diet - neither of which Luna has had before.

Kylie

I was thinking about switching to Canidae (salmon, grain free formula) as I'm finding that Luna is still itching/chewing her feet/weeping from her eyes on Eagle Pack (Sardine etc formula). I dislike the fact that Eagle Pack has beet pulp in it which can contribute to tear staining as well.

However I am worried at the very high protein levels - 41% for the Canidae compared to ~20% for the Eagle Pack.

Luna has had elevated ALT levels in the past - not a liver shunt but something might be going on. She is healthy so the specialist didn't want to continue with testing at this point. Would a high protein diet be a bad idea given her past elevated ALT levels? Note whilst they were elevated they were only slightly elevated and they started to normalize last year (she hasn't been tested this year yet - I generally test her every vet visit).

She had no tear staining and didn't lick her feet excessively until she was around 2 years old - for the last year she has been staining alot around her mouth, eyes and feet. Vet seems to not think it a big deal. She has been on Eagle Pack for the last 6-8 months but before that was on royal canin dental diet.

Does anyone have an alternative diet (besides raw - I wish to feed her a kibble/dry food) that might be hypoallergenic, high quality and grain free but without the high protein levels?

:)

That is supposed to be flowers for sick poochie from Genevieve...

We are hoping for a full recovery for you.

Thank you very much for all the 'positive recovery thoughts' - she is coming home today!

Apparently the ataxia (wobbly legs) is better today - though not 100%. We are hopeful she will make a full recovery!

I hope Brembo suffers no ill effects from his yummy mould snack :p

She seems to have developed ataxia (her bag legs are very wobbly and she is unable to walk properly) - we are unsure if this is because of being in the same position for 1-2 days and being old/arthritic, if she put her back out (which has played up before) or if this is a side effect. The vet seems hopeful that she will get better but at this point we are unsure.

Please think of Nu-Nu and hope she recovers full mobility etc.

Her pneumonia seemed much improved when my mother and sister and I visited her this afternoon. She was very very happy to see us!

My parents pug (whom I grew up with and just finished babysitting whilst they were overseas) has been in ICU at Sydney uni vet since Tuesday after eating a moldy (3 week+ old) sandwich (including the bag).

She started having tremors/seizures approximately 2 hrs after eating the sandwich and was raced to the vet (normal vet) by my sister who luckily wasn't back at uni yet. She had her stomach 'pumped', was placed on an IV and had anti-seizure meds + Valium. Was still seizing well into Tuesday night. Was transferred to Sydney Uni vet on Tuesday evening as required constant night care. During the night she vomited into her incubation tube which resulted in her getting bile/acid in her lungs. She now has aspiration pneumonia.

We were told on Tuesday night that it was unlikely she would survive and to prepare ourselves. ;)

Miraculously and due to the dedicated care of the vets and nurses at Sydney Uni she has turned around - she stopped seizing on Tuesday morning and although she has pneumonia it is only in one lung and this is serious but not as serious as the seizing. On Tuesday evening she seemed to be improving but had still not 'woken up' despite being off meds since 9 am Tuesday morning.

Today we got the fantastic news that she is awake, eating food (just like a pug) and even thinking about moving around. It's looking like she might even be allowed home this evening (we were thinking she might be in ICU for another 3-4 days). The pneumonia hasn't worsened and seems to be getting better! Only worry is that she doesn't want to get up and walk around - but given she has a sore back/arthritis and is likely very stiff from lying in one place since Tuesday this isn't surprising to me - however she only goes home if the vet is satisfied that she is ready/mobile tonight.

I just wanted to share the story - if your dog eats a moldy sandwich take them to the vet - mold is EXTREMELY toxic and has neurotoxins (hence the seizing).

The whole family is very very glad that the beloved pug should make a full recovery - thanks largely to my younger sister whom raced Nu-Nu (the pug) to the vet when she started seizing and the actions of our vets at both Bondi Junction and Sydney Uni!

For a 12 year old pug to get through this is fantastic Just got the good news about 20 mins ago! We aren't out of the danger zone completely BUT its definitely an improvement from Tuesday!

Purebred Maltese are normally around 2.5-5 kg - mines about 3 kg. There are 'bigger' Maltese that are larger but these are generally crosses.

And I thought a 10 kg pug was OBESE

Carrots are quite good for dieting dogs and humans

Hope the night goes okay and he doesn't eat the blanket