Bisart Dobes

The books that really know our breed are almost impossible to get hold of - the generic ones are not worth it.

For websites try these:

http://www.dobepac.com/

http://www.dpca.org/BreedEd/

Both are great the dpca has alot of information - some of it may be more geared to breeders but its broad based.

Noticed you are in Vic. Feel free to contact me privately with any questions you may have or even if you wish to meet some adults and see if they are really the breed for you.

Edited to add our prefix is Bisart and you can get contact details via the breed listings if interested.

You just know :).

My heart dog was Ryder - CH Bisart Easy Ryder CGC CD ET ROM AOM

I love all my dogs but he was just a part of my being, my heart and soul. We lost him tragically a year and two weeks ago to salmonella poisoning a 4.5 years of age - my heart breaks daily and I still have moments where the grief hits me so hard I can't breath. Even the title of this thread made me lose it - not sure it will ever go away. And not sure I will ever have another but I will know if / when they come along :).

Ryder passing our national temperament test xxx

I used an unshown dog over my bitch, he had proven his merit in the field however and I assessed his conformation and asked my breed mentors to as well.

So your dog doesn't like to show, what else can you do to prove his merit? If nothing why would someone use your dog over thier bitch as opposed to another one that is titled in a discipline.

It might pay to join DOL and create a profile for him. Also contact his breeder and update them with his health results, he might fit into thier program.

Pedigree - the most important thing to consider when choosing a stud dog.

I'm not sure I can make that date, plus I'm a bit uneasy about running her at altona. I've heard there can be some less than considerate locals that I'd be very nervous about running her around! Plus there's a bit more time til gippsland so I can see if she's fit enough!

I've put probably 5 dogs through at the Altona course - never had an issue with people not getting out of the way or being inconsiderate. Last year there were workmen tearing up concrete on the course at the back of the building - after the first time we passed them (pace setter got them to stop) they had posted their own lookout with a whistle who stopped them when the group got to that section - they couldn't have been more considerate. Great course - though make sure you train your legs to ride on grass - that grass stretch gets harder with each circuit lol.

Well done to all 13 of the 14 entries that passed their ET at the HVCV's ET on the weekend.

That has to be the best ET track in Vic - really enjoyed it with my boy and have his sister entered in the next one - will be able to do it in my sleep :).

What is the upper age limit to be able to compete in an ET?

8 years max

We have a 12 month old group 6 neuter. He is entered on 2 June @ Bulla and 29 June @ Wangaratta and we had decided these would be his last shows as there is never any competition. I'll see if the owner will reconsider and enter him on July 13.

Group 6 is usually well supported. Try being in Grp 4 where there has only been one for nearly 18 months. Thankfully that is changing. Even if there is no competition at Group level there is at neuter in show.

I have to say Fern continues to be shown to support the class, we are fully behind the concept, plus she loves it!

Yep, have to say that we have pretty much always had competition in Grp 6 for the group run offs - Mals, Bernese, Boxers, Dobes :), Rotty's, St Bernards, Sibes cant think of others atm.

Hi all Neuter Showies please support this Club with entering your neuter.

This is the first Show with Neuter Class being offered in Metropolitan Melbourne for 2013. We need to Show Dogs Vic that neuter classes are utilized.

Geelong Show Sunday

Group 1

7

Group 2

4 all staffies. Which ever 1 won also went on to win open neuter in show

Group 3

4

Group 4

2 One of which was from SA who came over because of neuter. This group has up until now only had 1 entrant Rebel Quests Fern.

Group 5

4

Group 6

1

Group 7

4

A total of 26

The Secretary is going to get me the numbers from last year.

One of the arguments against Neuter is that often there is only 1 in the group. I have been at 5 shows lately where there has only been 1 minor puppy in the working group. So that one does not cutit.

I have not added up the other entries that came with the neuter.

There were more than 1 Neuter in Group 6 - we had competition for the group run off - couldn't tell you what though :p

Plus they got 2 of my other entries that I would not have entered otherwise :).

If my puppy turns 12 months on the day of a sweepstakes class can I enter ???

So say date of birth is 10/04/12 - turn 1 or 12 months on the 10/04/13 & Sweepstakes class is on the 10/04/13 - can I enter in puppy class & Sweeps ???

After my last dealings with GTG !!!!!!!!!!!!! I WILL NEVER USE THIS COMPANY AGAIN DESPITE THE FACT THAT I HAVE TO HAVE ALL OF MY DOGS RETESTED WITH ANOTHER COMPANY. AND I WILL ALWAYS RECOMMEND AGAINST THEM - ALWAYS.

Also, puppy behaviour is a fairly poor indicator of future adult behaviour.

I don't think this is the case at all. If (as a breeder) you are watching the puppies interact as they grow you can get pretty close to 100% accurate in assessing what the adult dog will be like - our last litter I literally told a young couple "NO that puppy is not the dog for you" - one headstrong little boy who needed to go into an experienced dobermann home and be worked - thats the home he went into and is a perfect fit. This couple got a gorgeous boy who is easy going, relaxed and loves everyone (just like them lol) - the perfect puppy for them and they have since seen the other boy compared to their boy and thanked me for saying no - they then realised what I meant. No I think - like Nekhbet - we can be pretty close to 100%. Its placing them correctly that finishes the job.

Edited for spelling

To answer the op - yes temperament is of utmost importance - of both sire and dam. I believe the quality of the dams upbringing instills alot of behaviours in their offspring - this is their early training ground, then comes socialisation, training etc The studys in general seem to agree that there is a split of genetic and environmental - after 7 litters I can see genetics playing a larger role.

My Dobe is DA. As a puppy he was scared of other dogs and as he matured it turned into aggression. His dam had 2 litters prior to this one and all pups have amazing temps, his litter was sired by a different dog (semen from overseas) and more than one pup from his litter has similar issues. The breeders will not be using the remainder of the semen they imported from that particular dog as they believe this is the cause of the issues in some of the pups, as do I.

I am hopefully going to breed my first litter this year and temperament was a huge part of why I chose the sire I did for my bitch.

Regarding your boy - have you checked Thyroid - the test needs to be run in the States I think with Jean Dodds ???

Erny on this forum will be able to give you all the details. I wish there was a tag feature on this forum I would tag her in !!

But worth checking it out - here dogs have been pts due to temp issues / attacking people / dogs etc and it all could have been fixed if the breeder would just acknowledge the issue and stop breeding with the problem lines.

It does seem a remarkable coincidence that the breeds most affected by the dreaded tail breakinjg syndrome are those of the previously docked variety however.

Perhaps this is why traditionally docked breeds were docked originally ???

I really can't say whether the European system is better or worse than the one here but I do agree with your point that a challenge refusal in Australia is basically considered that the dog is a very poor specimen of the breed. The part of the European system you described is the written critiques - I think these have the potential to be very educational and helpful to exhibitors and breeders, and it also places a bit of accountability on the judge as well.

This is again the opinion of one judge on the day - don't think it means that the dog is a very poor specimen of the breed - it is that dog on the day & that judge. I've had one dog almost refused a class at the Melb Royal because in the judges opinion that dog lacked bone. Yes, he is an elegant dog and the dogs that went up that day were more of Rotty type. But that same dog went onto win BOB & PIG under Int Judge at Sunbury that same year (with a breed entry of 35+ dogs) and won multiple BOB's under Breed Specialists - & multiple class in All Breeds & Specialty shows(& was never refused a challenge). If he'd been non-awarded multiple times then you have to question obviously, I would love to have the critique system it would really show how much or how little the judges know of your breed standard.

In light of recent events we all need to take this seriously and not only read what the candidates have to say but question and pressure them on their views on everything that will affect our membership over the next 4 years.

Victorian Canine Association Inc

NOTICE TO MEMBERS

MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE ELECTIONS

Members are hereby informed that vacancies for six ordinary members of management committee will occur in April 2013.

Eligibility

Members are advised to check the Constitution, Rules and Regulations of the Victorian Canine Association Inc to confirm their eligibility. Only an ordinary, dual or life member as described in Rule 2.6 shall be eligible to nominate as a candidate or propose or second a candidate for election to the management committee, provided they were financial members for the whole of the previous financial year and their membership renewal subscriptions (if applicable) were paid not later than the date on which nominations close – see Rule 2.52.1.

Term of office

The term of office for three ordinary members of the management committee will be four years, for two ordinary members of the management committee the term will be three years, and for one ordinary member of the management committee the term will be one year.

Electoral roll

The electoral roll closed at 4 pm on Tuesday 31 January 2013. To be included on the electoral roll, members must be financial on that date. As per Regulation 3.3.7, Eligibility to vote at the AGM Every ordinary, dual or life member who was a financial member of the Victorian Canine Association Inc for at least the last three months of the association’s financial year preceding the annual general meeting and is currently a financial member shall be entitled to vote at the annual general meeting.

Nominations

Nominations closed with the VCA Returning Officer, Victorian Electoral Commission, Level 11,

530 Collins Street, Melbourne 3000 at 4 pm on Monday 17 December 2012.

TIMETABLE OF EVENTS FOR ELECTION OF SIX ORDINARY MEMBERS OF MANAGEMENT COMMITTEE

October and November 2012 Gazettes Call for nominations for vacancies for six ordinary members of the management committee. Nomination forms available from the chief executive or the VCA returning officer.

Monday 17 December 2012 Nominations closed at 4 pm

Thursday 31 January 2013 Electoral roll closed at 4 pm

February 2013 Gazette Full list of nominations with profiles published. Ballot papers will be sent out with this Gazette.

Friday 1 March 2013 Voting closes at 4 pm

Wednesday 22 May 2013 VCA Annual General Meeting. Newly elected members of management committee take office the next day.

May 2013 Gazette Results of election published.

Marie Degan

From the first photo looks like Dobe x Lab ?

Do you have to send a photo in with the dna test ?

Yes - the animal rights people are just sitting back laughing at all of us.

It is not an ANKC rule, it is the law.

The ANKC has to be seen to be law abiding.

I am pro tail docking.

It's illegal in most instances to dock a dog, but it is not illegal to import a docked dog, therefore those that import docked dogs should have every right to show them

It is legal in Australia to dock a dog that has been injured - it is illegal to dock a dog in Australia to prevent such an injury.

We have dogs that have full tails, we have full tailed dogs that have been injured and subsequently docked and we have imported docked dogs. My personal issues with this are that if I have a full tailed puppy that is a great example of our breed - is exhibited and does well, later in life injures the tail enough to be docked - then I cannot show, track or trial this dog ? How is this fair when I have abided by the law in this country ?

Also with our imported dogs - our breed needs to expand the gene pool desperately. We are looking at future breedings to import a puppy but those breeders can't choose our puppy at day 3 when banding is done - so at this point if the litter/s we are interested in aren't produced prior to this ruling coming in we won't be able to proceed.

I really hope that this gets voted out.

The way this whole document is written is so unprofessional its a disgrace - no wonder things like our last CEO's employment contact being made void, redundant and now re-advertised is happening - if this is the standard of the management committee and / or individuals then we are in more trouble than this motion.

This is nothing more than personal agenda's. To have accusations like below with no proof to back them up is ridiculous and a legal nightmare for all involved / co-signed.

The accusations of harming puppies to have them docked is disgraceful - I do not know anyone who would stoop to this kind of action.

The accusations of forging import paperwork !!!!!!!!!! Seriously !!! Forging OS registrations, Forging relevant country export paperwork, Forging foreign country vet clearance, Forging shipping bill, Forging airway bill, Forging Aquis & Customs paperwork & clearance. SERIOUSLY ! If you think this is possible FM ! Do you really think that all of official people involved are going to risk their jobs, professions, lives for someone to have a docked dog ?

And then just to prove it is personal agenda - they have included that docked dogs have an unfair advantage and that there should be a level playing field. Level playing field - PFFFFT ! - maybe we should put forward a motion that all judges should not be allowed to exhibit thier own dogs - that would level the playing field a bit more wouldn't it ????????? Stupid motion - well not quite as stupid as the one above.

God Save Us !!!

The suggestion is that dogs are being deliberately harmed to get a docked tail. An entire litter of puppies with broken tails? Sounds dodgy to me. If there is such evidence then it should be presented.

yes and that breeder made an example of, but no need to punish the good ones.

The good ones who dock tails?

the ones outlaying huge amounts of money to import fresh bloodlines, the ones who do actually have to dock a pup/dogs tail due to genuine problems. If there is any real proof that some people are breaking puppies tails just so they can be docked then they need to be punished.

Is there actually proof ? If vets actually beleived this to be the case as was written they are obliged by law to report abuse. So therefore there should be proof or it should be withdrawn. It is a disgraceful accusation to make.

The ANKC doesnt even get their information straight. Let's look at an example of my own breed (perhaps this applies to others as well)

The following is from the official ANKC breed standard for Australian Shepherds.......

Docked: Docked tail is straight, not to exceed four inches in length.

Undocked: Set on following the line of the croup. Of moderate length, not kinked. In overall balance with the rest of the dog. Moderately feathered

Bobbed: May be naturally bobbed. Is straight, not to exceed four inches in length.

I have queried this with the ANKC and Dogs Vic - neither have responded. They will to bring in rules on docking tails yet they havent sorted out their breed standardes.This is the standard as per the judges and exhibitors view - yet no mention of the fact that a Naturally Bobbed tail may be of ANY length..... it is very common to have aussies born NBT and yet have quarter, half or three quarter tails..... but under their standard if the tail exceed 4 inches it is not acceptable.....?

Perhaps the ANKC should clean up their own information first.

Bobbed is not even in our standard yet it is present in our breed.

Then counter with that dogs that are imported can still be shown. Locally bred dogs need to comply with local laws. I find it disturbing that people may be deliberately harming puppies just to get a docked tail and frankly if they are doing this, they should be banned from breeding and showing.

Really - just because this has been written in the motion / letter does not mean that it is happening. They have supplied NO PROOF that this has occurred - do you really believe that this is happening ?

What's the problem with it? In European countries where tail docking is banned, you can't show a dog with a docked tail, even if it was imported and legally docked. If you're going to ban tail docking, banning the dogs from being shown makes sense too.

I don't see the problem either. Disgusting that some people would actually break the tail on purpose.

Do you actually believe that breeders are doing this ??? Really ???

Trolley - Trolley - Trolley Wouldn't be without mine, the best thing I have bought.