jacqui835

Am loving this thread Beautiful dogs everyone!

Gosh that one about the cat and your neck is scary! Was the damage done with claw or tooth? My mum's cat attacks us at night time, I would avoid staying there solely for that reason (if there weren't enough others...) He's fine during the day, just a normal cat, but come night when he seems to know you can't see him (or if you have both hands full) he will leap at your feet and ankles and make them bleed :s Crazy animal.

Her claw, she was scared and just jumped up and took off, i bled a lot and was bloody sorry, but looked worse than it actually was.

Bella is one of the best cats i have owned she has never attacked me or anyone, loves people and the only time I have been hurt by her was this once.

Cats can do serious damage and I would never keep one that attacked people

My mum rescued this cat - his mother was a prized Siamese female, his father was a feral cat. The owners dumped all of the kittens as soon as they were born. He is a very strange cat in that, he's very needy, but he's also not trusting of people the way our other cats have been, like you can't pick him up, and taking him in the car requires serious preparation, he just becomes a wild animal.

But yes, the scars on my ankles reveal the fact that I am now all to aware of how effectively cats can cause damage and pain.

My nose is crooked thanks to a very lovely greyhound! doctor said he has no idea how it wasnt broken! I was in pain for months!

I have a scar on my head from where a bull terrier jumped on a door i was near and slammed it into my head

Scar from being bitten on my hand

a scar across my neck from Bella the cat, I was laying down, she was asleep on me, i sneezed, she got scared, i thought my throat had been slit! it was over 8 years ago and the scar is still there :D

scar on my arm from trying to worm Fanta

I stuffed everything up in my back once by falling over Atlas, he just stopped walking, i kept walking, Chiro made a lot of money out of me on that one! :p

Earring ripped out by kaos right through my ear lobe, god that hurt! (I was trying to sleep and she wanted to play, she started to dig at the doona and got me instead!)

I am sure i will remember more if i try! :D

Gosh that one about the cat and your neck is scary! Was the damage done with claw or tooth? My mum's cat attacks us at night time, I would avoid staying there solely for that reason (if there weren't enough others...) He's fine during the day, just a normal cat, but come night when he seems to know you can't see him (or if you have both hands full) he will leap at your feet and ankles and make them bleed :s Crazy animal.

Nothing that was intentional on the dogs' part and nothing that wasn't my fault, but a few none the less.

Plenty of scratches from when I can't resist and call him over to me when we're swimming - I don't know what he's thinking, he comes and like tries to leap onto you in the water :s

The worst was probably one time when I'd been out all day, had a pretty hard day and so was extremely happy to see him and vice versa. Anyway, he was trying to stop himself from jumping, I couldn't stop myself from hugging him and next thing you know his head connected with my lip and I nearly put my own teeth through it. Looked like I'd been whacked in the mouth lol and there was a ridiculous amount of blood. Damn dog seems to be impervious to injury and made out of solid rock.

Thanks Jacqui!

My biggest interest,so an absolute must watch for me.

I'm fully prepared to believe we've got a lot very wrong where dogs are concerned,and have a lot to answer for.

Mine too! I'm always amazed at what my dog seems to have picked up without me making any effort to teach him, and the way he's able to grasp ' situations' - so I'm really looking forward to this program.

"We have an extraordinary relationship with dogs - closer than with any other animal on the planet. But what makes the bond between us so special?

Research into dogs is gaining momentum, and scientists are investigating them like never before. From the latest fossil evidence, to the sequencing of the canine genome, to cognitive experiments, dogs are fast turning into the new chimps as a window into understanding ourselves.

Where does this relationship come from? In Siberia, a unique breeding experiment reveals the astonishing secret of how dogs evolved from wolves. Swedish scientists demonstrate how the human/dog bond is controlled by a powerful hormone also responsible for bonding mothers to their babies.

Why are dogs so good at reading our emotions? Horizon meets Betsy, reputedly the world's most intelligent dog, and compares her incredible abilities to those of children. Man's best friend has recently gone one step further - helping us identify genes responsible for causing human diseases."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b00pssgh

We have an extraordinary relationship with dogs - closer than with any other animal on the planet. But what makes the bond between us so special? Research into dogs is gaining momentum, and scientists are investigating them like never before. In this documentary we meet Betsy, reputedly the world's most intelligent dog, and compare her incredible abilities to those of children. Man's best friend has recently gone one step further - helping us identify genes responsible for causing human diseases.

Didn't quite catch the full ad for it, but they were talking about things dogs could do and how they understand us better than even chimps can - looks exciting.

Well humping is in my opinion, quite a dangerous behaviour, in that the dog is effectively challenging another and physically demanding submission. My dog has tried it, though fortunately not often, and I always intervene immediately, even if everyone else is laughing and the other dog doesn't seem to notice, just to try and discourage the behaviour as much as is possible. Sometimes now he is able to stop himself from mounting, and just humps the air next to them - but I correct that too.

I tell him No, get off. If he doesn't immediately respond, I grab his collar, yank him to the side, say no and put his lead on for a while. It sounds harsh, but there have been 2 occasions now, both with staffies or something that looks like a staffy, where he went into hump them, and they turned around and bit him, once drawing blood. He doesn't fight back fortunately, and if the dog growls at him, that is enough to stop him trying. But it's just not safe, because there are plenty of dogs that will take it much further and don't bother with the warning growl first.

He's much better now though as he gets older, and my presence alone seems to serve as an effective deterrent. Vigilance and consistency are great tools when it comes to our dogs.

Other dogs often try to hump him, and his response depends on the dog. Large dogs he runs away from, if they persist, he growls and if they persist after that, I grab both him and the other dog and wait until the owner can come and grab their dog. If the other owner doesn't seem interested, or they're incompetent and just stand there saying oh stop that please etc, I tell the dog off myself the way I would if it were mine, and this has been very effective - I just claim my dog and tell them to back off. I don't care what the other owner says, most of the people who allow their dogs to hump other dogs don't know a whole lot worth listening to about dog behaviour anyway (and often the owners have been apologetic and grateful). If the dog is small, he tends to ignore it. There are 2 small grey fluffy things that hump him on sight every time we see them, both owned by people who are usually not within a reasonable distance of their dog and wouldn't have a hope in hell of intervening should something happen to them. I ignore them too, until I see my dog starting to tire of it, he will start to try and avoid them etc. At this point, I call my dog to me, and we move. I firmly address the other dog if it tries to follow. I find smaller dogs much more unreliable, tenacious and difficult to control, perhaps because they have typically had a very different upbringing, so usually moving away is the better option.

But for everyone who will read this and think geez why would you go to the dog park? My dog is very social, and loves nothing more than a good chase or playful wrestle with other large dogs. I own only one dog, and am not close to anyone else who has a large well-trained dog he could play with, everyone else has tiny things. I am lucky enough to have a dog who is predictable and doesn't get easily worked up. He has a breaking point, but he's very expressive and gives ample warning, I just watch him carefully. We have a good bond, and it's obvious he trusts me to take care of him in these situations, as I always have, so he doesn't make any rash decisions. I just think it's worth it because I think it's really valuable for him to have that opportunity to play with other large friendly and well-trained dogs, and I don't have access to them via any other means. I think the correct response is highly dependent on your dog, but I generally hold the attitude that if you don't want your dog to take matters into their own hands/paws lol, you need to get in there first.

Not so much a hero story, but I think it's definitely worthy of a mention... When I first got my dog and he was only tiny, I spent a lot of time down on the ground playing with him etc. Anyway, one day because I was down on all fours, I happened to notice something shiney between the wall of the veranda thingy and the floor, almost tucked into it. Turned out to be a $10 000 + engagement ring. I would have never noticed it had I not happened to be down on my hands and knees in that spot, and that would have never happened if not for the dog, so I'm very grateful, and he has pretty much paid for himself lol.

I love Pepper, but I don't love the bruises I get when she loves me back a bit too hard. Like when she misjudges and power slides into me when trying to halt a zoomie at the park, or when we're cuddling in the bed and she tries to push me off with her great long legs. Actually, I do love it, in a weird, ridiculous "this is my doggy and it's who she is" kind of way.

Oh I cop this too. Went to get my legs waxed the other day, and the woman was like, "good god! what happened to your legs??" He's just so solid...

He doesn't so much push me off the bed as he smothers me. Every time I move because I'm too hot or I just need to move or whatever, he gets up, spins around once or twice, and collapses again on top of me. This is a 40+kg dog :s

If you want good recall, a Weimaraner is not for you. The one we had was an obedience champion when we got her. A very good dog generally. But once she was on a scent out there, she was deaf as a doornail. OK on our fenced areage once we put up the electric fence. The fence kept in the Dobes, but not a Wei. And once she got out, she had no idea how to get back.

I'd suggest a Dobermann. It would tick most, if not all, of your boxes.

Ah, thank you. I must admit I don't know too much about the breed I just think they're absolutely gorgeous looking! Hadn't considered a Dobermann, I was always a bit frightened of them as a kid and came across rather a lot of not too nice ones so I don't have the best feelings about them :p

Hmm, if you like the look of the hound breeds, like the ridgeback, the GSP and the weim etc, but want something with great recall and super affectionate (I'm sure the others are very affectionate too, but dobes have won the title 'velcro dogs' for a reason, and when you get home from work and are trying to go to the toilet, only to have your dobe open the bathroom door - handle and everything, and come and try rest his head on your lap and stare up into your eyes, or try and get in the shower with you just to rest against your legs when they don't even like showers, you start to understand why..), a dobe could be right for you. It's not the easiest breed to raise right, and you would need to be prepared to put in some training, but it is one where if you put in the effort, you will see great returns. This is the only breed that was bred purely for guarding people, and as such, they are typically very dedicated to their handlers. I have an entire male, but I think because of the guarding instincts, he does not ever wander away from me, and he has perfect recall, even when following animal scents with a pack of dogs. Very intelligent and keen to learn, short wash and wear coat and very very happy to cuddle up between me and my partner on the couch - they're also known as 100 pound lap dogs and work hard to maintain these titles...

He is fine with other animals and kids have ridden on his back, but I sleep very soundly at night because he is so protective and makes us all feel very safe. Of course they won't be the right breed for everyone, but I think in this instance they deserve a mention. I have met plenty of dobes who scare me and I have wanted to yell at the owners for creating such a monstrosity, but there are also dobes worthy of the other title I've heard them referred to as, that being, the king of dogs.

ETA these other dobes have scared me because they gave the impression that they could attack me at any moment just for walking down the street. Dobes true to standard are not just randomly aggressive, and no-one who isn't trying to hurt me or at least acting suss feels scared around my dog when they wouldn't otherwise feel scared around a large breed. Random men who run up to me when I'm jogging in the park after sunset, well, that's a different story isn't it.

I love my dog more than anything but my god, when I've just spent the whole morning cleaning the house, and he then just runs over the freshly mopped wooden floorboards with muddy paws - and then onto the carpet, it really hurts.

Or what about when he has a bone or toy in the backyard, and instead of just picking it up, he paws at it until he's dug a full on hole, destroyed the grass and hence more mud ends up inside :s

Sounds normal to me - 3 months is a long time!

My dog has only seen my brother a few times in his life (2-3 times, 6+ months apart), but every time he does he's ecstatic. We're always surprised he can even remember him, but on sight/smell/sound he instantly recognises him. He brings a different girl every time and the dog doesn't give her the time of day, but he's always all over my brother.

I don't know what's normal, my dog nearly dies when I get home after being away for the day, like I mean shaking, jumping (he knows I won't tolerate being jumped on so he ends up on the walls), I guess like people, dogs are just different. Some are more demonstrative.

O.K. I know it had to happen and its as good as here as anywhere.

Ive no doubt that what Im about to say is going to get me in the poo.

The reality is that some breeds of dogs have less quality of life than other dogs - in regard to the ability to cater to the natual instincts of the dog as a species.

Its one thing to have a dog which doesnt play much with other dogs because it prefers not to because of how its temperament has evolved and quite another to have a dog which can't behave like a dog is normally expected to behave based on what other dogs normally choose to do because of the way it has been bred to look.

Around about now we also have to take into account realities and not just what people think the dog would like to do.

So the question becomes if a pug had every other gene the same as a pug except the way it looked would the pug choose to be more active ? Are they less active because they are temperamentally less inclined to action or are they less active because they are physically unable to cope with activity? Lots of dogs chase a ball but a Maremma will tell you to go get it yourself - that has nothing what ever to do with its mouth, or body - temperamentally there is no instinct or desire to chase or retrieve that ball. If it had a brachy head someone would be telling me about the poor dog because it cant catch a ball. Obviously when we have medical evidence the dog suffers because its structure doesnt allow it breath naturally whether it chooses to run around the block or not and registered purebred breeders are the ones breeding them thats a whole new ball game and one that its time we addressed - not as easy as it sounds but we can do it.

If its O.K. with everyone this is a whole new topic and one Ive been putting off until we work through some other issues but we have every intention of addressing it - in a way you dont normally expect breeders to go about it.

Just go to a park if you need evidence that pugs want to be able to do more than what they are physically capable of. There are many pugs, and I have yet to see a single one that didn't want to run after the other dogs, that wanted to just and lay on the ground. If you consider the history of the development of the breed, that makes sense, given that they have hunting in their background...

CKC spaniel today outside Oportos, lying on its owners lap. There's an example of a dog being perfectly happy with its reduced size and pretty looks -the characteristics it was bred for, because it was happiest when on its owners' lap.

You have to wonder, why are there no celebrities or vets or dog trainers standing up for pure bred dogs? Once you have answered that question, you can start to work on rectifying it. There is certainly a place for pure bred dogs, there is only one breed that satisfies my needs and I loved the predictability and knowing what I had to prepare myself for. But, with some breeds, it would be impossible to deny that pure dog breeders haven't done right by them.

So what do you do? Separate the breeds? Have the working dogs in great condition on one side, and the dogs bred for cute and weird characteristics who need extra care, can't reproduce on their own etc etc on the other?

Registered ethical breeders are so important to the world of dogs, like it's been said, we wouldn't have any health tests if it weren't for them. But, you go to the zoo, the dingoes, wolves and other wild canines are pregnant - do they need health testing for hips, hearts, brains etc? No. Why do our dogs? Because of the way breeds were created, the amount of inbreeding that was required to create dogs that presented more strongly with the characteristics of their parents and now the tiny gene pools they have today. All of those documentaries make the point that the dogs within a breed today are all terribly closely related - almost like siblings.

I don't know. I am all for better matching the right dogs to the right people, and stopping some people from having dogs all together - and that's where my interest in the purebreeding community comes from. But, I can also understand the reservations of the general public and I don't support breeding animals to their detriment - which unfortunately is in my eyes at least, what happens deliberately in far too many breeds.

An opinion of someone not in the show world. I have one rescue dog and one purebred from a registered breeder.

Someone else already said this but I think there needs to be more opportunities for the public to see different breeds and meet breeders. I have an Australian Shepherd and no-one I know outside of the dog world has ever heard of them or seen them.

The people I know only know about health problems and other things they "don't like" in the usual breeds from documentaries or word of mouth or even meeting some of these dogs. They always mention pugs and cavaliers. Many mention the modern GSD's back. People say they don't like the look of poodles.

If some of these people actually met some well bred examples of these breeds with no health problems, I think that would help. I get heaps of people asking me for advice about breeds of dog that are right for them but they rarely take it because they go out and meet a "cute" oodle or other crossbreed that is healthy. What if I could say "here are some breeds you might like, and actually, you can go and meet some on x day at x time"? The general public doesn't want to go to dog shows, and often people there don't have the time of day for outsiders. Doggy events that are publicised by the local government, RSPCA, etc. are really well attended in my area, I think that we should make use of these. There were hundreds and hundreds of people at our local Dogs Day Out, there were rescue stalls, obedience demonstrations... but no stalls with friendly people and friendly dogs promoting their breed.

I think that vets can be a very important link as well. Most of the vets I know are happy for people to breed their mutts and lots even promote crossbreeds. The general public trusts vets. Why is it that most vets I've met don't even know what an Australian Shepherd is? Should they be more educated about purebred dogs as well? Our puppy school instructor correctly guessed that one of the pups was a pug x beagle yet looked at my dog with a confused look on her face... "border collie?"

Several people on this thread have commented that physically these days there are few ways to distinguish a border collie from an australian shepherd, there have been whole threads on it.

When I see pugs, they don't have any health problems per se, it's just that I feel terribly angry at whoever bred them deliberately to be the way that they are, because they want to run around and play with the other dogs, but they really can't. Within seconds they are snorting and puffing, and they just have to give up. What a frustrating life. And they need so much extra care on planes etc - I don't understand how you justify doing that to an animal.

I don't like the look of poodles, but poodles don't seem to have been bred to their disadvantage, they are great sporting dogs etc.

I actually think pugs are very cute, but I don't think that is a good enough excuse to justify breeding an animal to its detriment.

Same for shepherds with curvey backs, but you see both these days, and I love the police ones - they look fantastic and capable.

The problem is the majority of pet owners feel that breeders breed purely for looks, and although people here will jump up and down because they worry about breeding dilutes given the link to skin conditions, they seem fine with breeding for features that are also linked to much more serious conditions - curvey tails and what not.

your kids aren't missing anything by having friends at the house.

I disagree. I loved sleepovers when I was a bit younger, and they now serve as some of my best childhood memories. If you can, I would work to be able to let your kid have sleepovers.

Our dog is perefectly fine with our cat.

But she would kill a feral cat if she got hold of it. It normally ducks through the fence before she can get to it.

And I'd wish her luck too, as we have lost one of our own dom cats to that feral.

No way I'd re-home her for it. She would have been doing her job.

Same with mine, who is also a doberman. He is fine with our own cats, but, I think because when he was little he learned that our cats don't get along with any other cats (as cats generally don't), he is now protective of them, and if he hears the unmistakable yowls of an imminent cat fight, he will race around and try and catch the offending cat. Our cats do not leave our backyard, but 2 neighbour cats continually enter, and I do not expect my dog to leave a strange cat alone, even if it does belong to someone, that is trying to attack my cat in its own backyard.

Don't get too down about some of the comments in this thread, most of us will never be good enough dog owners to please everyone :s

Earlier this year, my circumstances changed dramatically and I was forced to move with no notice. I wasn't prepared to even consider giving up my dog, and so I began searching for a place to live whilst working and trying to complete my last year of uni. I was staying with my sister, and then with friends, each for a couple of nights before moving on. I was only looking for a new place for about 2 months, but it felt like forever, and it was hugely stressful. There were next to no dog friendly rentals, and of those, none allowed large dogs. In the beginning, I was honest, and when I submitted applications I told them I had a doberman. I specified that he had completed advanced obedience and all the rest of it, but I don't believe anyone looked past the breed. So I started lying, claiming I had a mixed medium sized dog, and I started getting short-listed, but always, despite excellent references (for me and the dog) and good job security/money, I was passed over for what I considered to be less reliable tenants sans pets (I was looking in pretty dodgey areas because I thought I'd have better/some luck there). I consider myself very lucky, because in the end, I found a place where the previous tenants were breaking lease, so it needed to be filled quickly (all about checking every single rental site and paper lol every day), and the landlord prefers dogs to children. It was me vs a couple with 2 young kids, and I got it. But I'm paying close to $600/wk, for a 2 bedroom semi, when the other side of the semi, which is virtually identical, save some superficial details, are paying closer to $500. It's illegal to charge pet owners more, but, I think that's the only way now that pet owners get considered - we're easy to take advantage of.

I don't know how you resolve the issue, but I don't think changing the laws will actually fix it. Thing is, so long as the rental market favours the landlords and they have lots of options to pick from, pet owners just won't be chosen, because of the stigma that exists against them.

We're about to move back to SA and buy a house. It seems today that if you want a pet, you need to own your own home, which is crazy, because pets provide so many benefits and can be wonderful additions to society, and my dog hasn't done anything to the house. Or you live in crazy rich areas (we have a family friend who lives in Woollahra, pays $9000 +/month and has undeclared pets which the landlords are aware of but they just don't care. But for most of us that's just a tad out of reach...

To be honest, if I were able to try and fix this issue, I would focus more on developing a system which enabled dogs to be distinguished from each other based on how well-trained and how well looked after they are. I would implement some sort of recognition program, and incentives for people to carry out this training/socialisation and look after their animals properly, such as maybe letting them access beaches and parks that other dogs without these certifications could not. Make it like the GAP greyhound thing, like the ones that have passed the tests get special collars or whatever. Charge pet owners nominal fees to fund the program - they'll pay it, everyone knew when they took a pet on it would cost them money, and in a program like this one, it's easy to see the benefits. In the long run, it will cost us less because we won't be paying $100/wk more just for our dog. Then everyone will learn that if the dog has these certificates, it's better than children and unlikely to cause damage, so all of us will find it much easier to find places to live and enjoy our dogs in public. With the same stone, you should also be able to cut back on poor dog ownership as people realise what is required, and find it more difficult and unacceptable to have a poorly behaved dog.

Definitely a big issue, sorry for my novel but it's one that has hugely affected me.

Yeah I was only worried because I was scared he wasn't able to keep any fluids down, he threw up every time he had a drink. I think now perhaps we shouldn't have given him so much fresh water in one go, he drank like a gallon and we just kept filling up his bowl.

He's all good now though, I just hope next time he doesn't try to drink it again, because he just loves the beach and going for a swim, and I think it's great exercise for him too.

Thanks heaps guys, he's finally eaten his dinner and had something to drink and he's sleeping at my feet. Silly dog, hopefully he learns but probably not lol

I took my dog to the beach today and he had a fantastic time, was well-behaved, and when I took him back up onto the grassy section, he did a number 2 on command and everything. Problem is, every time we take him to the beach, he drinks a bit of salt water.

In the past, it hasn't been so bad, he had a bit of diarrhea and threw up once or twice, but that was it. This time, he must have drunk heaps of water, perhaps because he was chasing a ball into the water and inhaling water when he tried to grab it :s Anyway, he seemed fine at first, just went to sleep. But about an hour ago he started to get very sick. I was over at my partner's house who lives in an apartment, and for the first time ever, he wet himself inside the house. I've never seen him need to go so badly (normally he can literally hold it in all day) but he was in a panic to get outside, and it seemed like the urge for him came on suddenly. He continued to pee once he was outside for like over a minute. He then threw up, mainly water. We've been giving him plenty of fresh water, but every time he drinks it, he throws up. About 15 mins after the first pee session, he went crazy again, actually leaped onto me on the couch (which he never does, he is usually very respectful) and my partner had started to correct him, but I suddenly thought maybe he needed to go outside, so I asked him, and he leaped off the couch, looked at me, and ran to the door. Took him outside and this time, he must have peed for about 2-3 minutes straight. He emptied himself out and then went again about 2 mins later for another 15-30 seconds. It was like a race horse.

Do I need to get him to the vet? I have brought him home so he can easily get outside, he looked so ashamed when he threw up and wet himself indoors so at least now he can be a bit more comfortable. He has access to heaps of cold, clean water and I've just given him his dinner, which he's shown no interest in (though that's not uncommon when he gets dry food - he only likes his fish, meat and bones..)

Aside from the throwing up and massive excretion, he's acting pretty normal, and in fact he's outside now happily chewing on an old bone. But I'm just worried about dehydration since he keeps throwing up after he drinks :s

Once again the blue breeders leave me shaking my head and wondering what in the hell a 28kg dog and 20 something kilo bitch, can possibly contribute to the breed.

Which has been the point I've been trying to make. There is only one health issue directly associated with dilutes which I spoke about in my earlier post which apparently can even be tested for today but no-one has responded to that, instead preferring to focus on the illogical meanderings. We all know everyone on these forums treats their dogs above and beyond what the majority of dogs today can ever hope to experience... I have been trying to argue that by not working to avoid dilutes (and producing particular colours that happen to be the most popular, and not just because they're perceived to be rare - people just like blue in all animal types - cats, rabbits, rats etc it's a nice colour), responsible breeders using tested and healthy animals could help to reduce the number of BYB's not contributing to the breed, because I believe that whilst there are many people who would choose a crappy blue over a good brindle etc, they would likely choose a dog with papers and health guarantees especially if it came at the same price.

I also tried to argue that if the issues with breeding dilute to dilute could be tested for and hence eliminated - same as in dobermans you don't breed vdw carrier to vdw carrier etc, then perhaps the standard (which was likely written initially to exclude blues and dilutes for that reason) could be revised. This would overall be arguably beneficial to the breed, because I don't think anyone would try and debate that currently, the way in which blue staffies are being created is doing nothing for the breed on the whole.

Well I used to have pet rats, and it's true, they do make fantastic, intelligent and affection pets. One of mine was nearly killed by a neighbours' cat once - they were in my bedroom and the damn cat came in through the window. I managed to save it but the neighbours were so horrible, kept saying the cat was just doing its job, removing vermin from the world :D

Anyway, I was annoyed when my rat was attacked in my own bedroom, but if I lost my rat, and it was killed by the dog in my next door neighbour's yard, well that's hardly their fault is it? If it were me, I just want to be told. I would be very sad, but I wouldn't hold it against you or your dog, I'd just take extra care next time to not let my rat escape. Fact is, if your dog hadn't eaten it, something else would have - pet rats are hopeless in the wild and would not last long. At least your dog was quick about it - had it been a cat the rat probably wouldn't have been so lucky.

What would be so wrong with one of the registered staffy breeders picking out 2 of their dogs who both contain the dilute gene, conducting all of their usual health tests, and then breeding them and making some money to enable themselves to devote more focus to the breed, whilst also stopping some yobbo from selling his inferior quality blue staffies?

Because it is essentially counter-productive. We as breeders are supposed to breed TO the standard, FOR the standard and with the betterment of the breed in mind. Taking two dogs, simply because they are dilutes, and breeding them isn't going to satisfy the ethics of the responsible breeder when to date, dilutes cannot fit the breed standard.

According to the ANKC Code of Ethics, breeders must NOT breed for the pet market or any other commercial purpose.

Doesn't of course mean that it doesn't happen, but I for one will not be sacrificing the health of my dogs and taking the risks associated with a litter lightly enough to JUST satisfy the pet market.

I breed when I want something for MYSELF. I breed to keep not to sell....BUT....it just happens that unless I have a very small litter, I will normally have a few very GOOD quality puppies left over for placing in suitably qualified pet homes. Some of these may be better quality and better SHOW prospects than the supposed show prospects bred by other breeders, but that doesn't mean that I want them in the show ring though. I just don't intend to ever breed ONLY for the pet market and I certainly don't want to breed with an aim in mind to breed something that might be sought after as pets when it has no place EVER in my future plans for breeding and/or showing.

And that's fair enough. Wouldn't try to suggest that anyone should be breeding something they didn't want to breed. But, of the breeders who too find the blue colours attractive. And I didn't say breed dilute to dilute to produce all blues for the pet market. I said take 2 carriers, so there's a chance you get blues but also whatever other puppies you want so your extra pups can earn you money and put yobo breeders out of business at the same time. And you sound like an incredibly responsible breeder. The more people getting their staffy pups from you, the better I'd guess. I'd imagine you'd provide exactly the kind of support and advice new dog owners need. It's just a pity that at this point, if people want a blue, they typically have to go to a less desirable source.

What would be so wrong with one of the registered staffy breeders picking out 2 of their dogs who both contain the dilute gene, conducting all of their usual health tests, and then breeding them and making some money to enable themselves to devote more focus to the breed, whilst also stopping some yobbo from selling his inferior quality blue staffies?

My guess is that the idea of producing pups for their colour alone would be an anathema to those breeders. The time, effort, cost and potential heartbreak of breeding means that decent breeders are more interested in producing quality dogs of any colour than ensuring that today's public can their dog of choice in the flavour of the month. They'd probably also be interested in avoiding the health issues associated with producing dilutes - I call that ethical breeding. :D

"CDA is recessive. That means that both parents must be carriers in order to pass it on, and only homozygous puppies will have it (they need two copies of the gene which causes it). Any colour can carry CDA or be homozygous for it, but only blues and isabellas will have symptoms. There are now tests available for the CDA gene, which will hopefully help breeders to avoid breeding carriers." My understanding is that is all dogs can carry Colour Dilution Alopecia, but its only expressed in dogs with diluted colours. However:

"The same problem can also occur (albeit rarely) on black or liver dogs, and is known as Black Hair Follicular Dysplasia. It affects black/liver hairs only, leaving all other hairs as normal. Because this condition is so rare, it often goes undiagnosed." Results in bald patches on the dog, when the rest of the fur looks fine. I only know of this because there is a black and white dog down at the park who developed patchiness. First they thought he was rubbing himself on the floor or something, but he got more and more patchy as he got older and finally, after about year of vets, he was diagnosed.

So it seems like it would be worth testing for this whether you plan to breed dilutes or not. I don't know how good or available the tests are since no-one here has mentioned them, but given the technology is changing, if we were able to eliminate this particular health problem (as far as I know there aren't any others that are almost entirely specific to dilutes), would everyone still be so against the breeding of blues (and other dilutes)?