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Everything posted by bryan_mannix

  1. I've got a copy here too which I could post on
  2. Aah. Got in first This link will allow you to download a copy of After You Get Your Puppy http://www.dogstardaily.com/free-downloads
  3. Honestly I think I would look terible in a corset and frilly knickers..... what are your men going to be wearing.
  4. Males ? Females ? Nerds :D ? Serena has photographed my whippet on another project
  5. Anyone got a good link to send her? Like this.... but better. I can tweet it to her.
  6. Thanks Steve for all the posts. Go and ice your fingers and I'll have a read.
  7. Amen to that Steve...this thread has really moved on from the shrill postings of the Custodians of the Status Quo. I may have missed details but are there still plans for MDBA show events? If so any more details on the format? Had the document below PMed to me this week. I apologise if it has already been discussed at length here. Obviously people's perceptions will be influenced by the author. Are there any ideas of merit here applicable to the Aus scene? (A quick reminder to viewers that the ideas below are not mine nor endorsed by me they are presented for discussion ) How do we mend the pedigree dog? Here is my 10-point guide: 1) REFORM THE KENNEL CLUB Twenty years ago, zoos were too often little more than entertainment venues run by circus ringmasters. Today, the best ones are true conservation forces with a strong focus on welfare and the genetic management of wild species. Scientific evidence has become the bedrock for policy decisions. Call ZSL (the Zoological Society of London as London Zoo is now called) and you will be put through to experts who are passionate and knowledgeable about conservation and welfare. Additionally, they wouldn’t dream of either playing down the seriousness of the genetic situation in some species; or try to convince you that keeping elephants in a small, barren enclosure is OK. They don’t need to, because the issues are being addressed. This fundamental shift in focus is what is needed for purebred dogs, too and it hasn’t come yet because of the deeply-entrenched fear that fully embracing science means the end of the purebred dog or dog shows. In truth, it is the opposite: ignore the science and we will lose the breeds and dog shows will die out as they become increasingly frowned-upon and irrelevant. As with London Zoo, things can’t go on exactly as they were - but they can go on. You can no longer see elephants at ZSL in London, for instance, because it was accepted that the enclosures were inappropriate. But we do still have zoos – and ones of which we can be much more proud. We need a Kennel Club that sees this level reform as a truly exciting opportunity rather than as a threat. If this happens, so much else would fall into place. 2) INTRODUCE BREED CONSERVATION PLANS The KC has introduced breed health plans but they’re nothing like enough. What we need are comprehensive Breed Conservation Plans (BCPs) for every breed. They need to include baseline measurements of genetic diversity for every breed, tailored guidance regarding popular sires and a coherent plan of action drawn up with the help of geneticists, epidemiologists and breeders. The BCPs also need to set targets and incorporate ways of measuring progress. A matter of some urgency is the genetic management of newly-registered breeds. This is currently often done in a very ad hoc way by breeders without sufficient knowledge – with a lot of inbreeding and the rapid spread of new diseases an inevitable result. There is then often a mad rush to try and get a DNA test. But the real answer lies in breeding the right way in the first place. 3) BIG UP THE BREED CLUBS Breed clubs need to be bigger and better – to become all-singing, all-dancing guardians of their breeds with a very strong focus on the breed as a whole rather than a group of people with individual interests. At present, breed clubs are too often dominated by show-breeders who look down on pet owners and are in competition with each other – bad news for transparency, team-spirit and, ultimately, the dogs. Pet owners and working owners need to be actively recruited and club literature and events need to be much less show-focused. Breed campaigners, very often acting outside of the breed clubs, need to be embraced as having a useful perspective rather than seen as the enemy. Information inviting new owners to join the relevant breed club (or clubs) should be sent out with every KC registration, offering no-obligation, free, emailed breed newsletters for life even if owners do not want to become a formal member. This would instantly give breed clubs access to a huge number of pet and working owners who at present do not belong to a breed club and who never get to hear important breed news – such as a new DNA test or research appeals. Breed newsletters should also offer very strong incentives to join breed clubs – perhaps discounted health insurance, dog food and other dog goodies, in the same way that many communities negotiate deals by offering business to a particular supplier. It goes without saying, I hope, that breed clubs need to be at the absolute forefront of data gathering – encouraging the reporting of health problems, running properly designed health surveys and publishing open databases (both health and pedigree information) that are accessible to all. Some are already doing this. More need to join them. 4) BUILD BETTER BREED CLUB WEBSITES Breed club websites clearly have the potential to be the perfect one-stop shop for everything anyone needs to know about an individual breed but currently range from pretty good to dire. Too few are works of art, design-wise – and too many are works of fiction, content-wise. This is because breed clubs are often run by people who have a vested interest in playing down health problems. This has led to a proliferation of independent breed websites that often provide more comprehensive information, particularly regarding health, and they sometimes also often offer more in the way of breed databases. It is extremely confusing for anyone trying to get information on a breed. The newly-launched Karlton Index (http://thekarltonindex.com/) seeks to redress this by highlighting the best and the worst UK breed club websites and encouraging breed clubs to do better. There is a business opportunity here for dog-loving web designers who could design off-the-shelf website templates for breed clubs – allowing individuality but ensuring some standardisation on what information is provided, developed in collaboration with the Kennel Club and breed clubs keen to offer the very best service to their breed and owners. 5) PRACTICES MAKE PERFECT Vets have a key role to play in educating the public in all aspects of pet dog ownership and need to step up to the mark. They are trusted as a source of independent advice but at present very often offer subjective, and sometimes just plain wrong, information on particular breeds. The KC recently tried to address this with a breed manual for vets. Unfortunately, it was beyond dreadful in terms of useful health information. The BVA/BSAVA can and should do better by producing their own guide that can provide objective information for vets and their clients. At the moment, very few people would think of asking a vet for advice on particular breeds but this clearly has the potential to change and in doing so to be a useful marketing tool for individual vets, via conventional literature, touch-screen terminals and open evenings. Vets also need to embrace VEctAR (http://www.rvc.ac.uk/VEctAR/About.cfm) a new disease surveillance system developed by the Royal Veterinary College in association with the University of Sydney. It is already up and running in the UK, with more practices being recruited all the time.. The beauty of VEcTAR is that it will yield useful information about the prevalence/incidence of inherited disease in pet dogs (and cats ) with very little effort on the vets’ part thanks to clever software that will silently “mine” the data. 6) EDUCATION, EDUCATION, EDUCATION A schools education programme involving dogs would be of enormous benefit to both children – and dogs. The dog offers an engaging way to teach children many things – evolution, genetics, reproduction, evolution, ethics, citizenship and so on. The upshot would be a better-educated public able to make better dog-ownership choices. This is the sort of scheme that pet food manufacturers should be falling over themselves to sponsor. 7) RE-INVENT THE DOG SHOW Ways must be found to reward health in the show-ring, rather than just the appearance of it. I would like to see a change to a points system where dogs arrive in the show-ring with a certain number of points already earned for meeting specific health criteria – such as long-lived parents/grand-parents, working qualifcations, taken/passed health tests and so on. This is easy enough to do in the electronic age in which we live. There needs to be new functional tests introduced for non-working breeds, too – eg evidence that a bulldog is capable of covering a certain distance at a certain pace. None of the tests need to be mandatory and it doesn’t have to be that a dog that arrives in the ring with no points couldn’t win. But show breeders will often go to considerable lengths to give their dog the best possible chance of winning and if being provably healthier is a way, it should become a strong incentive. 8) BREED STANDARDS – PICTURE THIS Pictures that illustrate breeds need to include not just how the show-dog looks now – but a historical picture of how the breed used to look (often so different) and, where appropriate, an example of the working side of the breed. This will help guard against exaggerations. Breed standards also need to be rewritten to be much more focused on function rather than form. As Dan Belkin, evolutionary biologist and breeder of salukis, wrote about the saluki breed standard: “The standard says ‘eyes, dark to hazel and bright, large and oval, but not prominent.' It doesn't say anything about whether or not the Saluki can see” (http://saluqi.home.netcom.com/belkin.htm). 9) OUTCROSSING TASK FORCE Outcrossing (to other breeds) was once part of the good dog breeder’s armoury and many early dog books talk openly about the practice. Today, the idea of outcrossing is met with abject horror by many, but it does offer a potential rescue route for many breeds which have bred themselves into a genetic cul-de-sac, such as the Cavalier King Charles Spaniel. I propose an Outcrossing Task Force made up of experts (to include breeders) offering the very best advice to breeds who either want, or need, to consider it as an option. 10) PUPPY CONTRACTS Every puppy should be sold with a puppy contract that makes demands on both breeders and buyers. New owners need to know that they are taking on a big commitment with responsiblities. Dogs are not fridges so there can be no absolute guarantees, of course, but breeders need to be able to show that they have done everything possible to ensure that a puppy has every chance of a happy, healthy life. Puppy contracts need to list breed specific issues, what tests are available/appropriate, whether they have been done and if not why not (there can be very good reasons why not). Formalising this for every breed would take the embarrassment away from puppy-buyers who often find it awkward to ask about health. If a dog then falls sick or dies from a breed specific health problem that could reasonably have been prevented, breeders should be liable, not just to take back a dog if required, but to assist with veterinary fees up to the purchase price of the dog.
  8. I think I am going to play with my kids in the sunshine Finnish lapphund? Yep read the other thread. I can synthesise a range of views. No. Why would you? That would be silly? Thank goodness you are not a breeder. Oh hang on.... are you suggesting that is what SS is suggesting!!? That's known as a Strawman Argument.
  9. OK perhaps one last try Poodlefan incorporating an illusion to gay marriage My understanding of grammar means that does not equate to Its as big a jump as the following silly example.... A couple mates and I are training to compete in this years EPIC. We are going out today to ride in the bush. Should an act legalising Gay Marriage be passed before 2pm this afternoon it is unlikely that we will hop off our bikes, pair up, make passionate love to each other and then get down on one knee and propose to each other. My guess would be that if the law is passed Gay people will be able to marry the person they love but there will be no compulsion on anyone else to change sexual orientation. Back to whippets. The vultures are circling. Animal rights groups have the ear of governments. They are perhaps looking to place great restrictions on breeders in the pure bred dog world. One stick they are using to condemn breeders are the closed stud books and practice of inbreeding. Imagine if the ANKC got on the front foot opened all stud books (under conditions, passed by judge, x generations, health tested etc etc). No breed need actually change pratice but (a) it instantly diffuses an argument and places the ANKC in a position of bargaining power "non of our stud books are closed" (b) it is a tool open to a breed if they deem it appropriate as in the Dalmation example. Legalising Gay marriage does not mean we are all forced into homosexual marriage. Opening stud books does not mean whippet breeders must outcross. Shortstep. Thanks for another interesting article. Keep the research coming. Back to open studbooks...my wife did note that her sisters recent attempts to open the stud books beyond the marital boundaries did not end well!!
  10. Agreed. There may be some breeds hwere opening up the studbook is beneficial. But in my breed there is no need at this point. So yep I do take offence in the notion that all pedigree registred dogs are inbred and need to be "fixed" by crossbreeding. Then I have good news... you don't need to be offended...below is a quote from SS When I read this I cannot see how you have interpreted this as an assertion that ???Can you?? Here is a picture of perhaps Australia's best looking whippet.
  11. Perhaps I haven't or can I humbly suggest you are both bringing your own lenses through which you view posts hunting for minutiae to pounce upon and be outraged. On a different front... while observing this bickering I am watching the First Tuesday Book Club and have come across I Shall Not Hate. Looks like a compelling read and perhaps puts our discussions in perspective.. Off to hunt for it on www.booko.com.au
  12. Try reading this Yet another of Shortstep's 'purebred improvement' threads again I read that and focus on again a cautionary warning about taking action before it is forced upon us. I also read from the article It is probably best to let SS speak for themself but I am not getting an agenda of bringing down the purebred dog world rather a passion to take steps to ensure its survival.
  13. The wolf article was used by Shortstep to suggest the application of "genetic rescue" to purebred dogs thus: And yes Bryann you have missed something. Shortstep has stated that the health issues of all purebred dogs can only be resolved by outcrossing to different breeds. And that this should be forced upon us all. You have also missed Steve taking issue with Shortstep's assertions and solutions. OK... my computer must be playing up... I am reading stuff like this
  14. I am not a breeder either. I am a Whippet owner who fails to see why new breeds need to be introduced to the Whippet blood line to solve problems that don't exist. I also fail to see the relevance of a "genetic rescue" article that discusses issues in a population of wolves derived from only 12 individuals (of whom only a few would be breeding pairs) has to do with the issues in purebred dogs. As I whippet owner also..... and with a quick check back through the thread I can't see anywhere the suggestion of Did I miss something!?! All I can see is a discussion about changes taking place in the UK and whether we want them here and the likelihood that they will be regardless and the suggestion that perhaps being proactive (as groups like the MDBA and Steve are) that the changes can be made to our benefit rather being forced. The wolf article was in response to another poster and is an interesting read.
  15. PF, Jo etc ..... settle down Enjoy the discussion and stop attacking the person!! What does it matter who the messenger is.... Discuss..Reflect..Contribute...Learn... I feel like I am listening to school girls ganging up on someone on the back of the bus. Have you read this book.... "On Doubt" by Leigh Sales. Its great. I'll post you my copy if you like. An excerpt from the blurb Shortstep. Thanks for the Wolf article... an interesting read. I will have a think about it. Oh and I am not a breeder (other than of two delicious children) so everything can I suppose be discounted Though I have just checked with Mrs Mannix Re: my breeding credentials and she replied "Performance or Product????....both above average but one much higher than the other" upon further discussion she is very much in favour of opening the stud books "if they contained Pat Rafter, Aidan Turner and Ewan Mcgregor"!!
  16. who is shortstep? i find it interesting that the majority of posts are not in the breeders section but in the general, most of the info that is posted is from reading up about pedigree dogs. is shortstop a breeder of registered dogs? most folks on here are transparent, have pics of the dogs they breed or own and state whether they are an exhibitor or breeder or a dog owner, none of that for you. if posters don't agree with what shortstep writes about your breed and the genetic problems that Shortstep reads up on, then you get all these links and statistics and some such to prove just how wrong you are. if you dare answer anything or get into the conversation your breed is quickly highlighted negatively. so who is shortstep? I dont' know what shortsteps agenda is either? are you from Australia or are you from somewhere else? I don't expect an answer. Again attacking them "man" rather than the ball... Does it matter who is asking the questions? Surely the answers are the important thing! Have the ANKC, with the full support of all breeders, jumped on board and comissioned a breed wide survey? Does anyone know the rates or are we all guessing?
  17. In the faults section - it says something about faults (ie not being as described by the standard) being weighed up against the health of the dog, but really - I think that dogs that are required to be born by C-section because of their genetic shape - should be excluded from the main (breeding) register. And ones that can't breathe easily when exercised - because of the genetic shape - too. Not involved currently. But I can read what is on the ANKC site for breed standard. Are you trying to tell me that this standard is wrong? As far as I know - the show dogs which are supposed to be the best for breeding - are judged to this standard. And it's this standard that is encouraging selection to unhealthy extremes. I also have a science degree. So I'm quite good at logical arguments and taking things to literal extremes. since I assume you are an expert in bulldogs How many champion bulldogs are not from c-section or breed puppies requiring c-section to be born? How many champion bulldogs have trouble breathing when they get a bit excited or run a lap around a standard football oval (or maybe just the length of a tennis court). Why is the breed standard still as I quoted? I don't see how I need any qualifications beyond primary school reading to come to the conclusion that is clearly outlined by the breed standard. Happy to learn your point of view. Ahh so you are not involved currently. Have you ever been involved? Oh I am certainly no expert on the breed Mrs RB. There are alot more qualified people out there than me. What I do take exception to are people like yourself spouting off about the extremes that Bulldogs are bred to when clearly you know little about the breed even in general. Yet you quote parts of the standard, tell us that we should be held accountable, but in fact, you dont know anything about the breed. I am not even going to answer your questions because while you have your science degree and primary school reading qualifications, I can tell that in order to educate you more about this beautiful breed, the attitude you have towards the fact that you deem them unhealthy, speaks volumes that no matter what I say, you will disagree. In understanding why the Bulldog is the way it is, there is alot of research available out there for you to read. The owners of many breeds are these days are electing to have their puppies born by caesar. Many bitches these days are being AI'd instead of natural matings. Is all this wrong? You quoted a peice in the Bulldog standard without even knowing all the facts. May I suggest you find reputable Bulldog breeders in your area to ask them so you can be better informed. Why should I seemingly waste my time educating you. What a frustrating response. It just seems to be attacking the "man" rather than playing the ball. Why not explain? Can you put up some of the links to the research. I'd love to have a read. As to C sections and AI.. an article from over 20 years ago that deals with it.......... Eugenics or Dysgenics.... I suspect there must be others.
  18. Really there are many people in the ANKC and kennel clubs around the world that hold views that they would like to see some modernization and change. Here are some good links about inbreeding. They attempt to explain inbreeding in a factual way and to answer some the agruments made which attempt promote inbreeding. You will have read many of these arguments before and here they are investigated in more detail. This one might be good if you are not sure you really want to spend much time reading but want to get a general idea, as it covers some of the most frequent topics you will read about. http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/2010/11/inbred-mistakes-ii.html The whole series of 6 Inbreeding Mistakes is found here Inbreeding Mitakes http://www.astraean.com/borderwars/?s=Inbred+mistakes Thanks for the considered comments (refreshing to hear) and the links. I will have a read and get back if I have any questions...
  19. Rev Jo I know you are one as am I.... and yes I try to educate with kindness rather than getting peoples backs up. You would know Steve Jones? Perhaps the greatest living geneticist.... people outside the dog world will latch on to some purebred advocate calling him "rubbish" and amongst the fits of laughter use this innacuracy to discount everything else that the purebred dog world says. There could not be a more qualified expert. I am just so dissappointed by the response of many in the dog world to PDE. She set out to expose a problem in the dog show world where breeding for appearance is elevated beyond health and function. Does every breeder do this? No. But does it happen? Yes. Are there some breeds whose health, form and function have suffered because of it. Yes? The vitriolic and ignorant denial of a very vocal minority paints the responsible minority in such a bad light that it gives those who would like to close the pure bred dog world down plenty of ammunition. How much better if a breeder stepped up and said "PDE exposed some truly horrible practices...THankfully those extreme examples don't apply to my kennel or more generally to my breed as we do x y z " So much better than ...."experts rubbish". "burn the witch" etc etc The 4 corners programme exposed some horrible practices in the Cattle World. Should we level personal attacks on those documentary makers? Should we level personal attacks because they are not long term cattle breeders? Where are the complaints that they only showed bad examples and didn't dedicate most of the show to showing the majority of abattoirs in Indonesia that do the right thing? Should we complain because they didn't spend most of the show looking at mad cows disease because it "is the real problem". Should we complain because the show didn't look at killing practices in Colombia because that is worse than in Indonesia. Should we believe wild conspiracy theoreys that some of the cattle weren't really stressed but had in fcct been denied there medication for a week before filming? The show set out to expose a problem. It cant be everything and wasn't designed to be a puff piece about some really great kennels.
  20. I don't mean to be cranky but I just shudder when I read stuff like this. This really undermines the pure bred dog world This is the kind of nonsense statement that gives ammunition to those whose views you oppose. Do you work as a scientist? and are you qualified as one? It is OK to present a rational argument supported by data to refute the claims in the show but to claim that say Professor Steve Jones is "rubbish" will just get people giggling about you and by association the purebred dog world.
  21. ??? How??? Is it different from Federal and Queensland preferential voting? Isn't it up to the individual to allocate preferences? Can't you vote Greens first, then whoever you want second? Maybe I am missing something.
  22. The Barf Diet Grow Your Pup with Bones Work Wonders: Feed Your Dog Raw Meaty Bones by Tom Lonsdale
  23. No strength of feeling justifies this gutless behaviour. Good advice. Make sure you do contact the police. Well I agree with you! So that makes two of us at least. and good articles MITA.
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